Calvinists,Im Asking...

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#61

This may seem like an odd question but do you believe the Jews are chosen people? Or how do Calvinists view that? or Reformed.
They differ and that is more dependent on eschatological than Calvin, reform, arminian, Wesleyan or Catholic theology.

I believe the promise was made to Abraham and his Seed, who is Jesus Christ, not seeds.

Jews were only special because Jesus was born into that heritage and they had the prophecies about Jesus entrusted to them.
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
398
32
28
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#62
So did you say you believe Revelations has happened or is currently happening? I missed something there in your explanation. I think I'll leave the topic of Jews alone. Got singed too much on that subject.
Amileanists believe revelation is already happening as has been happening since Christ's advent to heaven, I don't believe that myself, that description of mine means revelation starts when the first seals is opened, well of course there's the letters to the 7 churches and all that that comes before.
 
May 8, 2017
119
2
0
#63
The thing about revelation, if it conforms to scripture it isn't new. Everything has been given pertaining to life and godliness already. As far as healing, this is the type of gift I would say could happen, but in extremely rare circumstances. I mean immediate miraculous healing. I believe God still heals providentially. My issue with gifts like these I think, is that miracles weren't as commonplace as people think in the bible. They were always at specific times, the power given only to specific people, and for specific circumstances. They generally were given to those who spoke on behalf of God to prove God had spoken through them. I think prophecy has ended and all the gifts that accompanied it. Prophecies today look like nothing more than fortune telling.

One thing I think we have to be careful of today is that we have all these churches claiming to be operating in the gifts of the Spirit but they resemble eastern mysticism and other pagan religions more than their biblical counterpart. That should be concerning. Most people operating in the so-called gifts today can't even tell you how they know it's from God or not other than by some emotional response like it made them happy or feel good.
Why is it cessation doctrine followers like you pontificate to know when a gift of the Holy Spirit is operating and when its not and are such experts on things you do not believe in?

If the gifts are not for today, then is salvation and righteousness not for today as well? after-all, they are both gifts!

The best response from you is none at all since you do not believe the miracles, signs or wonders are for today. You already perfectly illustrated your Biblical ignorance on such matters in another thread, please stop doing it here.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#64
Y'all need to respect the op and take your fighting elsewhere..,

I wanna learn what the Calvinist believe too.

Not all reformed folks believe all 5 tulip points but all accept the 5 solas...

I believe to be called Calvinist you have to accept all 5 tulip petals.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#65
Why is it cessation doctrine followers like you pontificate to know when a gift of the Holy Spirit is operating and when its not and are such experts on things you do not believe in?

If the gifts are not for today, then is salvation and righteousness not for today as well? after-all, they are both gifts!

The best response from you is none at all since you do not believe the miracles, signs or wonders are for today. You already perfectly illustrated your Biblical ignorance on such matters in another thread, please stop doing it here.
You really have an axe to grind don't ya? Following me around like a little lost puppy. I'm gonna have to buy some treats for you. You gotta say something coherent and logical before you get one though.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#66
PS eschatological is the study of the end times (specifically revelation)...had no clue what that word meant until I joined this site. I believe in amillenialism,
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#67
PS eschatological is the study of the end times (specifically revelation)...had no clue what that word meant until I joined this site. I believe in amillenialism,
I did not know you are a Calvinist :)
 

Marano

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
398
32
28
29
#68
PS eschatological is the study of the end times (specifically revelation)...had no clue what that word meant until I joined this site. I believe in amillenialism,
So maybe you can tell op what amilleanism is truly about.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#69
Why is it cessation doctrine followers like you pontificate to know when a gift of the Holy Spirit is operating and when its not and are such experts on things you do not believe in?

If the gifts are not for today, then is salvation and righteousness not for today as well? after-all, they are both gifts!

The best response from you is none at all since you do not believe the miracles, signs or wonders are for today. You already perfectly illustrated your Biblical ignorance on such matters in another thread, please stop doing it here.


​Not to be ignorant but the flow of conversation is running freely here and these type of posts do not help. I have asked openly what Calvinists/Reformed believe and my reason for doing so was not to start and argument. Plenty of threads doing that. So lets keep the name calling down and let level heads prevail. So far,Im proud of this thread. Please dont make it nasty like all the others.I am honestly asking questions and getting answers and its been very peaceful. So please take part in this manner or go to one of the free for all threads.Thank you.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#70
Y'all need to respect the op and take your fighting elsewhere..,

I wanna learn what the Calvinist believe too.

Not all reformed folks believe all 5 tulip points but all accept the 5 solas...

I believe to be called Calvinist you have to accept all 5 tulip petals.

Thank you! I dont like being lumped in and so I assumed others dont either. Lynn mentioned that this discussion has had the two sides tearing each other apart. And I do not want that in this thread!!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#71
You really have an axe to grind don't ya? Following me around like a little lost puppy. I'm gonna have to buy some treats for you. You gotta say something coherent and logical before you get one though.

Just ignore those who are not respecting what I requested. This has been a great dialogue so far.I dont want it to become like all the others.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#72
Just ignore those who are not respecting what I requested. This has been a great dialogue so far.I dont want it to become like all the others.
Sorry. I'll try and keep it to myself next time. Thanks for keeping the peace.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#73
I gotta find this book that says Christ died only for the elect because it seems as of today no such thing exist.
Which one are you talking about? A Price For A People by Tom Wells or For Whom Did Christ Die? by R. B. Kuiper. I believe I have another one or two. I also have, The Death Christ Died by Robert P. Lightner, it presents the dispensational view of the Atonement, which is a far cry from, A Price For A People. I have many books on the Atonement from the Reformed viewpoint. I fought that doctrine for years, until one day my eyes were opened to John 10:11, 15, which lead to Ephesians 5:25 and as I read the Word I see more of them. As marano said the Triune God had a plan and an angel of the Lord announced that plan to Joesph in Matthew 1:21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” as compared to the Scripture that talks about God's demonstration of love towards the world, John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Big difference in that He, will save His people, to, the world might be saved.

I don't call myself Reformed or Calvinist and I agree with marano Calvinist put way to much infuses on the man Calvin. They talk about him more that Christ, which is a turn off to me with that brand, plus no double election for me. Reformed, I'm do not believe in infant baptism or the secondary grace of the sacraments. Nor do I agree with their eschatology or their view on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I fall more along the lines of Gurdem, Rodman and from what I understand MacAurthor, who all believe in the gifts of the Spirit, but don't believe in the hyper gifts or demonstrations of the Spirit. They believe in Biblical predestination, election, God's absolute foreknowledge, God particular redemption, unconditional grace, justification by faith alone, regeneration by the Word and the Spirit, that brings life when the Father grants it, because the flesh is of no help at all, while we are dead in our sins and trespasses. Once we are made alive, our will is freed from sins and we respond in love towards God for His amazing grace, it's the only response to His setting us free from the slavery of sin.

My eschatology falls in line with their's with the gathering of the saints being along the lines of MacAurther's. I believe in the use of the 10 commandments in evangelism, because they are the embodiment of knowledge and truth and from them comes the knowledge of sin and that you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Other wise you are spiritually blind to the gospel of truth, that by the Father causing us to be born again, we can hear the Gospel of truth and we respond in repentance and faith, the Spirit seals us and our faith leads to justification. We re made alive in union with Christ in His death and resurrection by the Spirit, which guarantees our inheritance until the blessed hope, our bodies that are in the image of Christ, glorified.

The Biblical Doctrines of Grace are a beautiful thing, when you understand them it gives you an insight of what is called the second blessing of the Spirit or the in filling of the Spirit. The baptism makes you alive in Christ, the filling is you surrendering to the Spirit where He get more on you. I was always taught that I needed to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to receive the gift of the Spirit, I did lots of studies to get the Biblical view point but since I was taught that it was the baptism, I could never get that understanding and those that taught that did not believe in God's grace in the new birth as being how you believed so it was confusing. Now I can understand it better.

All I know is that since understanding the Doctrines of Grace my understanding of the Word is much clearer now and I can understand many thing that I didn't before.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#74
Sorry. I'll try and keep it to myself next time. Thanks for keeping the peace.

I was uncharitable to you in another thread. We do disagree on certain things,Im sure there is something we do agree on.But Ive learned a lot in this thread and I thank you for your contribution. I was seeing everything as an attack. I suppose you feel the same way. But Im going to pat the majority of us on the back here.I like to learn,I like to discuss but some of the junk here,I just close down and get out.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#75
I was uncharitable to you in another thread. We do disagree on certain things,Im sure there is something we do agree on.But Ive learned a lot in this thread and I thank you for your contribution. I was seeing everything as an attack. I suppose you feel the same way. But Im going to pat the majority of us on the back here.I like to learn,I like to discuss but some of the junk here,I just close down and get out.
Yeah, I saw the post you addressed to me. I didn't respond because I didn't actually think you were one of the ones coming in lying about everyone but you got reacted on. The tension was already high in the thread by the time you got there though. I think the one who reacted has already talked to you in private though? So hopefully that got resolved. And no hard feelings from me. I just get a little frustrated sometimes and need to take a break.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#76
Which one are you talking about? A Price For A People by Tom Wells or For Whom Did Christ Die? by R. B. Kuiper. I believe I have another one or two. I also have, The Death Christ Died by Robert P. Lightner, it presents the dispensational view of the Atonement, which is a far cry from, A Price For A People. I have many books on the Atonement from the Reformed viewpoint. I fought that doctrine for years, until one day my eyes were opened to John 10:11, 15, which lead to Ephesians 5:25 and as I read the Word I see more of them. As marano said the Triune God had a plan and an angel of the Lord announced that plan to Joesph in Matthew 1:21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.” as compared to the Scripture that talks about God's demonstration of love towards the world, John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Big difference in that He, will save His people, to, the world might be saved.

I don't call myself Reformed or Calvinist and I agree with marano Calvinist put way to much infuses on the man Calvin. They talk about him more that Christ, which is a turn off to me with that brand, plus no double election for me. Reformed, I'm do not believe in infant baptism or the secondary grace of the sacraments. Nor do I agree with their eschatology or their view on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I fall more along the lines of Gurdem, Rodman and from what I understand MacAurthor, who all believe in the gifts of the Spirit, but don't believe in the hyper gifts or demonstrations of the Spirit. They believe in Biblical predestination, election, God's absolute foreknowledge, God particular redemption, unconditional grace, justification by faith alone, regeneration by the Word and the Spirit, that brings life when the Father grants it, because the flesh is of no help at all, while we are dead in our sins and trespasses. Once we are made alive, our will is freed from sins and we respond in love towards God for His amazing grace, it's the only response to His setting us free from the slavery of sin.

My eschatology falls in line with their's with the gathering of the saints being along the lines of MacAurther's. I believe in the use of the 10 commandments in evangelism, because they are the embodiment of knowledge and truth and from them comes the knowledge of sin and that you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Other wise you are spiritually blind to the gospel of truth, that by the Father causing us to be born again, we can hear the Gospel of truth and we respond in repentance and faith, the Spirit seals us and our faith leads to justification. We re made alive in union with Christ in His death and resurrection by the Spirit, which guarantees our inheritance until the blessed hope, our bodies that are in the image of Christ, glorified.

The Biblical Doctrines of Grace are a beautiful thing, when you understand them it gives you an insight of what is called the second blessing of the Spirit or the in filling of the Spirit. The baptism makes you alive in Christ, the filling is you surrendering to the Spirit where He get more on you. I was always taught that I needed to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to receive the gift of the Spirit, I did lots of studies to get the Biblical view point but since I was taught that it was the baptism, I could never get that understanding and those that taught that did not believe in God's grace in the new birth as being how you believed so it was confusing. Now I can understand it better.

All I know is that since understanding the Doctrines of Grace my understanding of the Word is much clearer now and I can understand many thing that I didn't before.

Quote "no double election for me"

Ok,I need an explanation here!!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#77
Yeah, I saw the post you addressed to me. I didn't respond because I didn't actually think you were one of the ones coming in lying about everyone but you got reacted on. The tension was already high in the thread by the time you got there though. I think the one who reacted has already talked to you in private though? So hopefully that got resolved. And no hard feelings from me. I just get a little frustrated sometimes and need to take a break.
Yes,I think she and I will be ok. I haven't seen her round here but perhaps she'll pop up. So far so good.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#78
Quote "no double election for me"

Ok,I need an explanation here!!
Double election is also called equal ultimacy. This was the cause of the strife on the last thread. People falsely accuse Calvinist/reformed believers of believing God takes part in causing man to go to hell. That he actually causes them to sin, like little puppets. As far as I know, no one holds this point of view here. We were constantly being accused of it though, me included, when I had already made my stance on it clear on the second post on the thread. That's why several of us were becoming so reactionary.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#79
Double election is also called equal ultimacy. This was the cause of the strife on the last thread. People falsely accuse Calvinist/reformed believers of believing God takes part in causing man to go to hell. That he actually causes them to sin, like little puppets. As far as I know, no one holds this point of view here. We were constantly being accused of it though, me included, when I had already made my stance on it clear on the second post on the thread. That's why several of us were becoming so reactionary.
So can you explain double election vs what you believe?
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,717
1,141
113
#80
bless your heart, kg. (i refuse to call you by your dog's name. lol)

i hope you get the answers you're seeking. i hold to reformed theology, but still call other Christians, er, Christians. :)

i figure i actually was saved before i came to see the doctrines of grace in the Bible, so..... ;)
but before i knew what it was, i knew i was a monergist.

i'm sure we can all show from the Bible why we believe what we believe. but my grandkids are here. ask me anything via PM if you like, and may the Lord grant peace here.