Can liars and thieves still make heaven?

[Yet]

And you still refuse to answer certain questions which are posited to you. How does the resurrected Christ now receive tithes and who does He receive them from? This is about the 8th time now that I've asked you this question either in public or in private. Ignoring the question and its answer isn't going to make it magically disappear.

I gave you a good source to study. You seem to refuse. I've already covered those scriptures in other threads. Look them up.

Ill give you some hints however. How do you give Christ your tithes since He is not physically on earth? Do you burn those bills on an altar?

Abraham paid a one time spoils of war tax to a priest. It wasn't even on his own substance. It was on retrieved stolen property of others.
Is that the kind of tithe you are suggesting? We need to pay it according to the word, right?

The gentile believers were told 4 things. Don't eat anything strangled, don't eat blood, don't eat anything offered to idols, don't fornicate, and pay your tithes....to someone. Oops! The tithe part isn't there.

If the NT does not condone one person elevating himself above the sheep, who gets the tithe money?

In all of Pauls teaching along with the others, never mentions tithing as a law upon the believers in the new covenant, and folks are going to hell right and left for 'robbing God', why were the writers silent about such a command that would send violators to perish in the lake of fire? How cruel was that?

Just one one more for good measure. The rich man tithes with ease. The poor man tithes sweating bullets. Sounds fair to me!

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

In that scripture you posted do you see the word were?

That's what I mean by you have to be made perfect in the spirit/reborn.
Sounds like you are talking about works salvation to be made perfect.

Also, your faith saves you, not works. Yet, Scripture tells us that faith without works is a dead faith, literally.

 

[dcontroversal]

That's all fine and good, but you still didn't answer my question. The epistle to the Hebrews tells us that the resurrected Christ receives tithes, so I am asking who He receives them from and how He receives them. Surely He doesn't receive them from unbelievers, right? If He receives them then from believers, then how does He do so?

Through the local church you are a member of and possibly when you help the poor....All honor, praise and worship goes unto the Lord through his church....and Jesus said that if you do it unto the least of his brethren you have done it unto him.....so really there is only two possible answers.....through the church of your membership as a cheerful giver based upon love and or by helping the poor based upon love......

How about your view?

 

[Budman]

Also, your faith saves you, not works. Yet, Scripture tells us that faith without works is a dead faith, literally.

Good works are the result of salvation, and given to us by God to do. Yet, our salvation, or keeping our salvation, is not based on works.

One's spiritual life may be dead by refusing to do good works, but salvation is assured because it's based on what Christ has done - not based on what we do/have done.

"If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3: 14, 15)

 

[dcontroversal]

Also, your faith saves you, not works. Yet, Scripture tells us that faith without works is a dead faith, literally.

Yes and James compares it to being like a corpse......what about the saved who have the works of wood, hay and stubble which ends up burnt yet they are saved yet so as by fire and or the vessels in the house that are not honorable, yet in the house?

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

Good works are the result of salvation, and given to us by God to do. Yet, our salvation, or keeping our salvation, is not based on works.

One's spiritual life may be dead by refusing to do good works, but salvation is assured because it's based on what Christ has done - not based on what we do/have done.

"If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3: 14, 15)

I totally agree!

 

[Budman]

Yes and James compares it to being like a corpse......what about the saved who have the works of wood, hay and stubble which ends up burnt yet they are saved yet so as by fire and or the vessels in the house that are not honorable, yet in the house?

Great minds think alike! LOL!

Pretty cool how God put that verse into both of our heads at the same time.

 

[Brother_J_BELGIUM]

Great minds think alike! LOL!

Pretty cool how God put that verse into both of our heads at the same time.

I was going to say too that works are a result of faith and not the other way around but I thought I already made my point...

 

[dcontroversal]

Great minds think alike! LOL!

Pretty cool how God put that verse into both of our heads at the same time.

Yes in deed......and I agree....the bible will lead all who are honest to the same conclusions on everything as the bible has one central truth concerning everything!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I'm sorry if it sounded that way, getting salvation for works is an evil doctrine that I do not believe in. What I was trying to say is that if you live like there is no God and sin all you want, then you are surely lost. But on the other hand, Scripture tells us that not everyone saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter heaven, but those who do the will of the Father. Scripture also says 'The devils believe in the Lord too and they tremble', the difference is that the Christian who is truly saved will have that spirit working through him and convincing him/her no longer to sin, to stay away from it. Someone who says he believes in Jesus but lives ungodly is a liar and is not truly saved. The devils believe and they tremble, and they too are all liars and deceivers.

okay but it sounds like a few people are saying yes you can be like that and go to to heaven.The bible says that everyone that has this hope in them purifies themselves.

That's why I said that I hope someone with a good understanding of OSAS will shed some light on this.

 

[purgedconscience]

Through the local church you are a member of and possibly when you help the poor....All honor, praise and worship goes unto the Lord through his church....and Jesus said that if you do it unto the least of his brethren you have done it unto him.....so really there is only two possible answers.....through the church of your membership as a cheerful giver based upon love and or by helping the poor based upon love......

How about your view?

Our views are identical.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Someone might say but the question is what if a saved person was like this?

If they were not made perfect in the spirit then I would say no but if they were made perfect in the spirit then they would purify themselves.

 

[skye51]

The thief on the cross did. Although i think he was quite fortunate. In normal circumstances I think they would have to repent first. some people can repent on their death beds.

 

[Ludiusvox]

The theives next to jesus on the cross, he said," This day you will be with me in paradise." So it's possible. People need to repent of their sins of drug dealing and all the things they do.

 

[NotmebutHim]

Ok here we go:

Abraham lied
Jacob lied and cheated
David cheated, lied and murdered (to get Bathsheba)
Matthew was a tax collector working for the Romans, but he became one of Christ's disciples
Zaccheus was the same, but he repented and restored fourfold to all those he had cheated
The tax collector at the temple said "God be merciful to me, a sinner!"
Peter denied Christ three times
Moses killed an Egyptian
Miriam doubted Moses' and Aaron's words
Paul (when he was Saul of Tarsus) was a fierce and relentless persecutor of Christians

I believe that answers your question.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Someone might say but the question is what if a saved person was like this?

If they were not made perfect in the spirit then I would say no but if they were made perfect in the spirit then they would purify themselves.

To say it better I would say if they were not made perfect in the spirit then no but if they were made perfect in the spirit yes and if they remain alive in this world then they would seek to purify themselves.

Someone might say"what do you mean by Purify yourselves"

I mean renew your mind.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The theives next to jesus on the cross, he said," This day you will be with me in paradise." So it's possible. People need to repent of their sins of drug dealing and all the things they do.

Did both of them or one of them believe the WORD of GOD?

 

[thecreationtutor]

Is Jacob in hell?

 

[purgedconscience]

Is Jacob in hell?

It can be argued that Jacob didn't really lie. After all, Esau did sell him his birthright.

 

[thecreationtutor]

It can be argued that Jacob didn't really lie. After all, Esau did sell him his birthright.

That's the assumption of only one point in time - he lied to his father, his father in law - his name meant usurper/liar - not a reliable response


Didn't also know that the people of Israel were famous for their obedience to Christ either (not directed towards previous poster)