Can liars and thieves still make heaven?

[purgedconscience]

That's the assumption of only one point in time - he lied to his father, his father in law - his name meant usurper/liar - not a reliable response

What lies are you referring to? When he told his father that he was Esau, at his mother's urging by the way, in a sense, he wasn't really lying in that he had purchased Esau's birthright. Regarding Laban, are you referring to incidents pertaining to his cattle? God showed Jacob what to do in order to inherit the same because Laban was the crook who kept on changing Jacob's wages. Even when Laban hotly pursued after Jacob, God warned him not to do Jacob any harm, so whose side was God on? Also, God changed Jacob's name to Israel which means that as a prince he had power with God and man and had prevailed, so, again, God apparently didn't see Jacob in a negative light.

 

[The_Wanderer]

God loves a cheerful giver and it is more blessed to give than to receive!

Muzzle not the ox that treads out the corn and an elder is worthy of double honor!

There are examples in the N.T. of churches taking up an offering for the relief of the poor in other churches, but obviously we are not under the command to tithe!

I wish I could recall a church I've been to where they took up an offering for the poor today.

 

[didymos]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Depends which side of the cross you on. (aka if you repent ot not)

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

(Luke 23: 39-43 / NIV)

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

For the reborn person JESUS paid the sin debt and gave us his righteousness so when GOD sees us he sees the blood of JESUS and since JESUS gave us his righteousness,GOD doesn't see us as liars and thieves and being a new creation now a person will seek to purify themselves(talking about sanctification)

Paul said he had wronged no man.

Men might see you that way but not GOD.

 

[shotgunner]

It may be a simple question, but the answer is not so simple.

The question is which answer do you want to hear. There is the worldly, easy Christianity answer, which liars and thieves will still go to Heaven because when you are Saved can't lose it. And there is the Truth which the Bible teaches.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

So should i believe the Scriptures and what they plainly teach, or believe the words of people from the last days generation?

Does that mean no thief will enter into Heaven? If a thief repents and stops stealing, then he is no longer a thief is he?
If a liar repents and stops lying, he/she is no longer a liar is he/she?

Do you see how that works?
No fornicator will enter into Heaven. So if you are one of those people who continue to fornicate, you ARE a fornicator, i don't care what you claim with your mouth "Im Saved", "I'm under the Blood", "I'm under Grace", "Once Saved Always Saved" if you continue to fornicate you ARE a fornicator.
if you continue to commit adultery, you ARE an adulterer.
if you continue to lie, you ARE a liar.
if you continue to steal, you ARE a thief.
So simple children can understand that.
Now if you Repent and cease. (NOTICE, i did not just say repent, i said repent AND CEASE) Then you are no longer seen as an adulterer, a liar, a thief, a fornicator in the eyes of God. But as long as you continue to do those things, you ARE those things and will NOT enter into Heaven, as the Bible plainly teaches, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No liar will enter into Heaven.
No thief will enter into Heaven.
No adulterer will enter into Heaven.
No fornicator will enter into Heaven.

If you repent and cease to lie, then you are no longer a liar.
If you repent and cease to steal, then you are no longer a thief.
If you repent and cease to commit adultery, then you are no longer an adulterer.
If you repent and cease to have sexual relations, except with your spouse, then you are no longer a fornicator.

How simple is that, how easy to understand that, children can understand and grasp this Truth. But leave it to the wicked generation that teaches you can continue to lie, cheat, and steal, then still go to Heaven, because they cling to the false doctrines that they so dearly love. Again, much weeping and gnashing of teeth on the Day Jesus Returns and they are left behind.

Responding to OP

Doesn't that kind of go against this?
Corinthians 5:17-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Corinthians 5:21King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Notice Jesus was made to be sin. Jesus didn't commit any sin, yet he was made sin. Likewise your being made righteous isn't dependent on you committing righteousness. We aren't made righteous by our righteousness, we are partakers of His righteousness.

Now, there is no benefit to sin!! We aren't to sin more that more grace be bestowed upon us! We are to embrace the righteousness conferred upon us and walk in it.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

It may be a simple question, but the answer is not so simple.

The question is which answer do you want to hear. There is the worldly, easy Christianity answer, which liars and thieves will still go to Heaven because when you are Saved can't lose it. And there is the Truth which the Bible teaches.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

So should i believe the Scriptures and what they plainly teach, or believe the words of people from the last days generation?

Does that mean no thief will enter into Heaven? If a thief repents and stops stealing, then he is no longer a thief is he?
If a liar repents and stops lying, he/she is no longer a liar is he/she?

Do you see how that works?
No fornicator will enter into Heaven. So if you are one of those people who continue to fornicate, you ARE a fornicator, i don't care what you claim with your mouth "Im Saved", "I'm under the Blood", "I'm under Grace", "Once Saved Always Saved" if you continue to fornicate you ARE a fornicator.
if you continue to commit adultery, you ARE an adulterer.
if you continue to lie, you ARE a liar.
if you continue to steal, you ARE a thief.
So simple children can understand that.
Now if you Repent and cease. (NOTICE, i did not just say repent, i said repent AND CEASE) Then you are no longer seen as an adulterer, a liar, a thief, a fornicator in the eyes of God. But as long as you continue to do those things, you ARE those things and will NOT enter into Heaven, as the Bible plainly teaches, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No liar will enter into Heaven.
No thief will enter into Heaven.
No adulterer will enter into Heaven.
No fornicator will enter into Heaven.

If you repent and cease to lie, then you are no longer a liar.
If you repent and cease to steal, then you are no longer a thief.
If you repent and cease to commit adultery, then you are no longer an adulterer.
If you repent and cease to have sexual relations, except with your spouse, then you are no longer a fornicator.

How simple is that, how easy to understand that, children can understand and grasp this Truth. But leave it to the wicked generation that teaches you can continue to lie, cheat, and steal, then still go to Heaven, because they cling to the false doctrines that they so dearly love. Again, much weeping and gnashing of teeth on the Day Jesus Returns and they are left behind.

Responding to OP

Doesn't that kind of go against this?
Corinthians 5:17-18King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is True. The moment we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord, we are a new creature, Pure as snow, sinless, perfect, Holy, without spot, clean. UNTIL we go about to knowingly and willingly committting sins again, the very thing we sought Jesus to forgive us of. The dog returning to its own vomit, or the cleaned sow returning to the mud. It is written we are new creature, that we should not longer do the deeds of the old man. So how is it we claim to be a new creature, a new man in Christ, yet we continue to do the very deeds of the old man, all the while claiming with the mouth we are a new man in Christ, a new creature? Oh, yeah, its the last days generation that teaches that false doctrine.
[SUP]

18

[/SUP]

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

This He did the moment we accepted Him as our Savior and Lord, and He made us clean. The problem is not what Jesus did for us, the problem is with this generation after being cleaned by Him, going about to make themselves filthy again by living in sins, all the while excusing their own sinning, so they do not have to cease from them. Altogether reprobate minds, living in sins, all the while saying they are cleaned by Jesus. Who are cleansed by His Blood according to the Word of God, those who walk in the light, NOT those who continue to walk in darkness by living in their sins, which they choose to live in. They have not got rid of the sin that so easily besets them, instead they relish in it, they have no plans to cease from that sin, ever, again reprobate minds excuse their sinning.

Corinthians 5:21King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is True, and when a lost soul, ladden down with sins, comes to Jesus to Save, them, It is His Righteousness, that SAVES that lost soul, That soul then has the righteousness of Jesus Christ upon them. But if that soul afterwards goes about to pollute itself again, He has chose to do this contrary to Christ. That is why it is written to all those who have already tasted the gift of Salvation from Jesus, have already had their sins wiped clean, to the Christians, that those who do unrighteousness are unrighteous, and those who do righteousness are righteous. Leave it to this wicked generation to believe they can claim righteousness all the while doing that which is unrighteous, they claim they are in the light, all the while doing those sinful things that are considered darkness. They are devoid of the Truth, and there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice Jesus was made to be sin. Jesus didn't commit any sin, yet he was made sin. Likewise your being made righteous isn't dependent on you committing righteousness. We aren't made righteous by our righteousness, we are partakers of His righteousness.

This is True, until which point you continue to live like the old man. i will tell you the Truth, those who knowingly and willingly live in sin, make void the righteousness of God. As long as you are living in sins, you are NOT Righteous, not through yourself or Jesus Christ, you have altogether chosen who your master is by who you choose to obey. Jesus is saying cease from that sin, satan is saying continue to do that sin, your master is to whom you choose to obey. NOW, if you cease, and repent of that sinning. YES, His righteousness will yet again cover you, but ONLY when you Truly repent of a particular sin does He do this, and to Truly repent of a particular sin, you DO NOT continue to do the very sin that you ask Jesus to forgive you for. His righteousness covers those who are righteous, not those who choose to continue to obey His enemy. How be it this generation will altogether refuse to believe this Truth, yet it does not contradict any Scriptures, only what this generation believes is the Truth, because they hold on to their false doctrines.

Now, there is no benefit to sin!! We aren't to sin more that more grace be bestowed upon us! We are to embrace the righteousness conferred upon us and walk in it.

i hear what you are saying concerning righteousness, if you Truly want to see what the Word of God says about it, then click HERE.

^i^ Responding to Post # 65

 

[Jruiz]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Only if they repent and turn from their wicked ways...you can't live a life style of sin and think your going to enter the kingdom..nice try.

 

[phil112]

[h=2]Can liars and thieves still make heaven?[/h]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!​

I suppose it is simple...if you tell us which one you're asking. That is two different questions y'know.
The answer to first is that everyone still breathing can make it to heaven. Will they? Only God knows.
The answer to the second is "not if they continue in their ways without repenting".

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

The change took place in the spirit and then the spirit was sealed.

We have this treasure in our bodies which is not glorified yet but someday it will be glorified.

No sin will enter heaven.We sin in our bodies here on earth now but we are in the process of renewing our minds.

Some call it living holy or sanctification.

 

[valiant]

What lies are you referring to? When he told his father that he was Esau, at his mother's urging by the way, in a sense, he wasn't really lying in that he had purchased Esau's birthright.

So he was not deceiving his father? Surely he was. And that was lying. However you wrap it up Jacob was a liar. He should have committed his case for a tribal ruling or waited for God to give him his rights. But he preferred using deceit. That is lying.

Regarding Laban, are you referring to incidents pertaining to his cattle? God showed Jacob what to do in order to inherit the same because Laban was the crook who kept on changing Jacob's wages.

So Jacob was perfectly open and honest? Come off it. They were two cheats and manipulators together. That did not make Jacob right. Both of them would have said, 'its business'. That is how cheats justify themselves.

Even when Laban hotly pursued after Jacob, God warned him not to do Jacob any harm, so whose side was God on?

Now you are getting closer. No one doubts that God was on Jacob's side, in spite of the fact that he had betrayed the tribe. And why was this. Rom 9 tells us. It was because God had chosen devious, manipulating, dishonest Jacob because in His own purpose he intended to transform him from what he was into a godly person. The one thing that was true of Jacob in all his devious ways was that he believed in God and trusted in Him. That was why he wanted the birthright. BUT GOD HAD ALREADY PROMISED HIM THE BIRTHRIGHT. So he should have trusted God for it not cheated in order to obtain it.

Thank God He does not expect us immediately to become totally righteous when we turn to Him. He knows too well what we are. Instead he takes devious, manipulating, self-seeking Jacob and slowly transforms him through chastening and circumstances into what he should be. That is the life-history of all true Christians (2 Cor 3.18; Phil 2.13). God's behaviour towards Jacob was OF GRACE (undeserved, unmerited favour and love).

Also, God changed Jacob's name to Israel which means that as a prince he had power with God and man and had prevailed, so, again, God apparently didn't see Jacob in a negative light.

If you mean that God did not see Jacob as a manipulator and deceiver then you are wrong. If you mean that GOD intended to change him from being deceitful, manipulating Jacob into righteous praying Israel, then you are right But it was of God's mercy. Not because of Jacob's worthiness.

God saw Jacob in a positive light because of what HE intended to do in him as a consequence of the election of grace.

 

[valiant]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

Heaven will be full of liars and thieves. EVERY MAN LIVING is a liar and thief. It is part of what man is. But the ones that will be in Heaven are the ones on whom God has had mercy and whom He has wooed to Himself, giving them new life so that gradually they have become more honest and less deceitful.

I wonder how many liars among us can look back over the past year and say, 'I have not in any way deceived anyone in any way, I have not withheld from anyone what was their full due, and I have not done anything except speak and reveal the full truth in all matters'? (The answer is only those whose conscience is blunted).

But thank God our eternal salvation does not depend on whether we have lived scrupulously truthfully and honestly (if it did few would be saved), it depends on the fact that our Lord Jesus Christ is our Saviour and is working within us to make us scrupulously true and honest, and will finally do so.

Simple answer!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Will liars and thieves still make heaven?

Simple question!

I'm gonna say no. But then those are identities, thats who those people are. Those are not folks who are liars and thieves because they lie and steal, they lie and steal because they are liars and thieves. Those are spiritual identities of the unregenerate.

 

[Yet]

Some missed it...again.
I'm talking career liars and thieves. Those hirelings that have wrested the word for fun and profit. Who refused to work a job. Acts 20.
Who 'defiled ( misled) the temple (the body of Christ) of God.
Who exalted themselves like Diotrephes.
Who devoured widows houses with the lie of the tithe.

Are we getting it yet?

An apostate church following after the whore. Many eventually following after the WCC.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Yes they were reborn.
Those who worship GOD must worship him in spirit and truth.

Then after salvation if we remain alive and still on earth in our body that has not been glorified yet we will sin but if we received salvation by Grace through faith we will seek to purify ourselves.
+++++++++
Romans 6:6
king James version(KJV)

6.)Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Some missed it...again.
I'm talking career liars and thieves. Those hirelings that have wrested the word for fun and profit. Who refused to work a job. Acts 20.
Who 'defiled ( misled) the temple (the body of Christ) of God.
Who exalted themselves like Diotrephes.
Who devoured widows houses with the lie of the tithe.

Are we getting it yet?

An apostate church following after the whore. Many eventually following after the WCC.

If you want to keep it about the outward man using will-power then the answer is simply NO.

 

[kaylagrl]

I told this one before. Walked into a Sunday school class one time. This 'pastor's' wife was hammering home tithing. I raised my hand and respectfully asked, where in the NT is the command for Christians to tithe?'

She referred to the offering that was taken up for the saints in Jerusalem during a famine and I clearified that for her.
She was flabbergasted because someone dared to challenge her on the subject. Most dumb sheep won't. Just sitting there like deers in the headlights....zombies. I'm sorry but I don't know how else to describe churched to death people. I'm tired. God love them but they need to wake up and take some responsibility and quit 'loving it so'!


Any way! So she said to her husband sitting in the front row ' 'pastor', do you want to say anyrhing?'
So he turned to me and said ' Jesus dealt with the Pharisees that were tithing spices and told them that they should have shown mercy and not let the other undone.

I, with tact and quiet respect, said ' the old covenant was still enforce at that time'.

Now here's the climax. He actually conceded with ' ok you're right. There is no place in the new covenant that tells Christians to tithe'.
He said that right in front of about 10 congregants. I've known of this guy for years. He was about 65 years old and been 'pastoring' for decades. He taught no differently than thousands of other 'pastors'.

But now, for the first time in his ministry, so called, he told the truth about tithing in front of the 'church'.
You could hear the proverbial pin drop! A hush over the whole scene. It was intense.

At this point his wife jumped back into the fray and actually answered with this insanity 'well I'm telling you that I don't care if it's not in the NT, you had better pay your tithes to God or you are going to stand guilty before Him one day for 'robbing God'.

I very, very gently tried to chime in with 'excuse me mam, uh, excuse me ...mam but if...excuse me, may I say....'?

At this very point I felt a hand on my shoulder and an elder saying ' lets go. You've got to leave'.

I did not resist. And...I was not shocked or surprised.

He led me out the door. I started to walk away then I heard the 'pastor's' voice. He said 'let me ask you a question. Do you tithe?'
I answered with 'I tithed for years and it hurt my family..and..'

He interrupted me with 'do you tithe now?' I answered 'no'. I give freely....'

He Interrupted again with 'then you have no right to talk about tithing'.

God told me to simply walk away! Shake the dust.

Later I thought about the logical conclusion of what he said could be used with ' unless you are living in adultery, you can't preach against adultery. Unless you are a homosexual, you cannot preach against homosexuality. Unless you are a rapest, you cannot preach against rape. Unless you are an active thief, you have no right to preach against stealing.

Unless you are an active murderer, you have no right to preach against murder.
Unless you are a member of Isis, you have no right to condemn beheadings.
Somebody wake me up when you get there.
How far does the 'church' have to sink before smelling the coffee? Yes I prayed for this man and his poor wife, deceived by covetiousness.

But it does beg the question once again. Do these 2 still have a home waiting for them in glory? Seeing that they are co-conspirators in a lie and in theft, all for fun and profit?
Now multiply this by thousands of other pulpiteers playing the same game, promoting the same bondage upon the weak and the poor. The rich have no problem. Tithing is easy for them.

Now look up the scriptures on what God is going to do with those that 'spoil the widows'.

Again, we are talking about lies and theft....what's going to happen with these hirelings?

How did tithing hurt your family? If you "give freely" why should ten percent matter to you? Why make a mountain out of a mole hill? Do you just think there should be no churches at all? Are you against having a church building? I traveled in ministry and the vast majority of pastors are making a modest sum,sure arent rich.Now if you talking tv pastors,thats different.But local pastors,no.

See this is a bone of contention with me.When I traveled with my family we were told countless times we were in it for the money.Totally untrue.But when you told people how much it cost to travel and bills that needed paying,well then you werent in Gods will,cause if you were he'd provide the money? How does he provide the money? Through the saints? Apparently not. These same people that put a dollar in the offering plate would go feast after church spending 50 bucks on restaurant food,and do the same after the evening service. So much for supporting the work of the Lord.People spend much,much more on their own wants then supporting the Lords work. Give and it will be given unto you. Why quibble over 10 percent? I dont get it.What am I missing?

 

[valiant]

Some missed it...again.
I'm talking career liars and thieves. Those hirelings that have wrested the word for fun and profit. Who refused to work a job. Acts 20.
Who 'defiled ( misled) the temple (the body of Christ) of God.
Who exalted themselves like Diotrephes.
Who devoured widows houses with the lie of the tithe.

Are we getting it yet?

An apostate church following after the whore. Many eventually following after the WCC.

LOL now we get it. You want us to agree with your incorrect second coming doctrine.?

 

[Yet]

LOL now we get it. You want us to agree with your incorrect second coming doctrine.?

The falling away first and that man of sin revealed. Incorrect doctrine? About the second coming? I suppose. But I'm talking a major apostasy going on.

 

[passing_through]

Liars and thieves can go to heaven, they don't even need to repent, just born again by the word and the spirit.

Sins don't keep anyone out, not believing on Christ does.

**putting on flak jacket ***

 

[DiscipleDave]

Liars and thieves can go to heaven, they don't even need to repent, just born again by the word and the spirit.

Sins don't keep anyone out, not believing on Christ does.

**putting on flak jacket ***

Strange you teach that, yet Scriptures teach those who believe in Jesus are Born of God, and those who are Born of God do not sin.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn_4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jn_5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn_5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Believe you, or believe Scriptures? i choose the Word of God, sorry. You say it's about believing ONLY and not about sin, yet Jesus Himself told a man and a woman to go and sin no more.

Responding to post # 79