Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

[Quasar92]

The Triune God appears in Scripture

Jesus said, 'That all may honour the Son AS they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son (as they honour the Father), does not honour the Father Who sent Him.' John 5.23


“For as the Father has life in Himself, so has He given the Son to have life in Himself” John 5.26


Jesus answered them, “MY Father is working still and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God John 5.17-18


“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM” John 8.58


Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know Me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father. John 14.9


“And this is life eternal, that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent – and now, Father, glorify Me with the glory which I had with You before the world was” (John 17.5)


John said, 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was face to face with God, and What God was the Word was, – and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1.1, 14).


The risen Jesus said, “Baptising them in the (one) Name (YHWH) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28.19


And for us there is ONE GOD, the Father, from Whom are all things and for Whom we exist, and ONE LORD through Whom are all things and through Whom we exist 1 Corinthians 8.6 (in contrast with the many gods and lords)


He is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstBORN before the whole of creation Colossians 1.15


In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form Colossians 2.9


Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ Titus 2.13


When the goodness and kindness of God our Saviour appeared, – which He poured out upon us through Jesus Christ our Saviour Titus 3.4, 6


In the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ – of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1.1 ,11 (exactly parallel in the Greek).


Who being the outshining of His glory and the exact representation of His substance Heb 1.3


He is the SON in contrast to all angels Heb 1.4 following

There isn't a single passage you have quoted above that supports a triune Godhead in any way, except Mt.28:19. Which in and of itself, is an alteration, making it a statement Jesus would have never made. Because, the Bible teaches that God is the Holy Spirit AND Father, Jis title, One person, not two.

See my post #341 that explains the Biblical description of God.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

You understand them even less than you do the Bible.

It'll be a cold day in hell when you're are able to prove it. Capiche!


Quasar92

 

[valiant]

It'll be a cold day in hell when you're are able to prove it. Capiche!


Quasar92

make sure you have a thick overcoat

 

[valiant]

There isn't a single passage you have quoted above that supports a triune Godhead in any way, except Mt.28:19. Which in and of itself, is an alteration, making it a statement Jesus would have never made. Because, the Bible teaches that God is the Holy Spirit AND Father, Jis title, One person, not two.

See my post #341 that explains the Biblical description of God.


Quasar92

But they show that Jesus claimed to be equal with the Father.. I don't accept your 'biblical view of God' which is totally unbiblical. The revelation in the NT is quite clear to those to whom it is given by the Father.

It is hidden from 'the wise' but revealed to babes. All you demonstrate is that you are not one of His.

 

[wattie]

There is this issue if you are going to call the Father superior to the Son..

If we do this.. but still call Jesus divine.. or maybe 'a god'...

Then we have Polytheism.

Obviously Quasar92 is denying Jesus' diety.. that definitely is one of the characteristics of being a christian.

We don't follow 'a god' or 'a lesser god' in Jesus.. Jesus is Almighty, Conquerer, Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.

He was with God in the beginning and all thing were made thru Him.

All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him bodily.

Yes the word 'trinity' isn't taught in the bible. But the context of the bible shows the one triune being, God expressing Himself in three essences/substances. (I'm still not happy with persons )

If someone wants a God as the Father who is not triune.. well then what are they going to do with the Holy Spirit and Jesus?

if they are lesser.. you plainly have polytheism.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"The Church has not hesitated to teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Without pretending to understand, she has given her witness, she has repeated what the Holy Scriptures teach. Some deny that the Scriptures teach the Trinity of the Godhead on the ground that the whole idea of trinity in unity is a contradiction in terms; but since we cannot understand the fall of a leaf by the roadside or the hatching of a robin's egg in the nest yonder, why should the Trinity be a problem to us? "We think more loftily of God," says Michael de Molinos, "by knowing that He is incomprehensible, and above our understanding, than by conceiving Him under any image and creature beauty, according to our rude understanding."

Not all who called themselves Christians through the centuries were Trinitarians, but as the presence of God in the fiery pillar glowed above the camp of Israel throughout the wilderness journey, saying to all the world, "These are My people," so belief in the Trinity has since the days of the apostles shone above the Church of the Firstborn as she journeyed down the years. Purity and power have followed this faith. Under this banner have gone forth apostles, fathers, martyrs, mystics, hymnists, reformers, revivalists, and the seal of divine approval has rested on their lives and their labors. However they may have differed on minor matters, the doctrine of the Trinity bound them together.

What God declares the believing heart confesses without the need of further proof. Indeed, to seek proof is to admit doubt, and to obtain proof is to render faith superfluous."


A W Tozer, Excerpt from The Knowledge of the Holy

 

[Quasar92]

But they show that Jesus claimed to be equal with the Father.. I don't accept your 'biblical view of God' which is totally unbiblical. The revelation in the NT is quite clear to those to whom it is given by the Father.

It is hidden from 'the wise' but revealed to babes. All you demonstrate is that you are not one of His.

Review Jn.14:28 for starters, yhen go to 17:3 to get your feet wet!


Quasar92

 

[FreeNChrist]

What difference does that make when the quotes came from esteemed Trinitarians who admit the Trinity cannot be taught from the Bible. Which you have yet to learn!
Quasar

The difference is that you have taken what a heretic has plucked out from what Trinitarians have written, baited it with his own little heretical twist, and bit it hook line and sinker.

 

[Quasar92]

The difference is that you have taken what a heretic has plucked out from what Trinitarians have written, baited it with his own little heretical twist, and bit it hook line and sinker.

Here's more Scriptural facts for you to try sweeping under the carpet:

Anomalies in the doctrine of the Trinity exposed:

1. Trinitarians believe the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit formulate their Godhead consisting of one God. However, there was no Son in the OT except God's prophecy He was to be a Father in 2 Sam.7:14; 1 Chr.17:13 and Ps.2:7, in the OT. Obviously then, according to God's own word, the Son did not exist in the OT. Confirming Isa.43:10 and 44:6.
2. Therefore, there was no Son until the virgin conceived by the Holy Spirit according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35. Which reveals the Holy Spirit to be the Father of Jesus, His title. The same title all men receive when they produce children of their own.

3. The Scriptures reveal who and what God is in the following: Those that describe Him as Spirit are: Jn.1:18; 4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Col.1:15; Tim.1:17; Heb.11:27 and 1 Jn.4:12. That God is Holy is recorded in the following: Lev.11:44-45; 19:2; Ps.99:3, 5 and 1 Pet.1:15-16. Therefore the Scriptures clearly reveal our one and only invisible God to be the Holy Spirit and Father, one person, not two, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35. Yet trinitarians see the Son as only one person and don't add Jesus as an additional person, making two persons out of Him, as they do to the two they make of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

4. Of the Son, there is an origin, as revealed to us by Solomon, as he was carried along by the Holy Spirit. God, who knows the end from the beginning, according to Isa.46:10, who brought the pre-incarnate spirit forth, of the person who later became His only begotten Son, Jesus, as the first of His works, before the world began, the firstborn over all creation, according to Pr.8:22-36 and Col.1:15.
Pr.8:22-36 identifies the WHO of the wisdom of God as confirmed in 1 Cor.1:24 and in Col.2:2-3. In Pr.8:30, Jesus called himself "the craftsman at His side" that reveals the two separate entities the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus. Confirming who "us" referred to in Gen.1:26 and in 11:7.

Where the doctrine of the Trinity calls for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be but ONE GOD, they insist the Father and the Son are combined with the Holy Spirit to make the person of one God. Yet still insist the Father and the Son are not one and the same person. In addition, they refer to them as co-eternal and co-equal, contradicting the Scriptures recorded in Pr.8:22-36 of the father bringing the Son forth as the firstborn over all creation, recorded in Col.1:15, as two very separate Entities.

5. Jesus became the only begotten Son of God when the Holy Spirit produced Him by the virgin Mary in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, becoming His Father, when Jesus received His deity from the Holy Spirit. Fulfilling Ps.45:6-7; 110:1 and Isa.7:14.

6. Therefore, according to the above Scriptural facts above, it becomes clear why Mt.28:19 as found in our Bibles today is an alteration from that which was originally written by the author. Jesus would never have made a statement like the present day translation, because He knew very well His Father was/is the Holy Spirit, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk,1:35. In addition, Jesus stated that His Father lived in Him, doing His work, in Jn.14:10, clearly revealing His Father to be the Holy Spirit. The invisible God of Rom.1:20 and Col.1:15.

7. In addition, the practice of baptism by the Apostles, was always in the name of Jesus Christ, confirming the prophecy of John the Baptist, in Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3, as found in Acts 2:38. Never as the altered triune theology Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Which is the very reason the alteration can readily be revealed - for the above Scriptural reasons.

8. 1 Jn.5:7 does not appear in any of the more reliable Greek mss and is a late insert of about the 12th century. But is found in some of the late Latin mss, of about the 13th century.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

The difference is that you have taken what a heretic has plucked out from what Trinitarians have written, baited it with his own little heretical twist, and bit it hook line and sinker.

Show me where I did anything other than post the quotes of esteemed Trinitarians who are honest enough to admit the Trinity cannot be taught from the Bible. In the first place, it was politically motivated, not inspired by the Holy Spirit, or it would have been taught by Jesus and His disciples, which it is not!


Quasar92

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have not been here for awhile. Does anyone know if quasar actually answered my question about who the "god of heaven, creator of all things, God of Isreal" in Is 48, who was sent by the father and spirit was?

Or can I just move on.. because he has no desire to discuss anything.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I have not been here for awhile. Does anyone know if quasar actually answered my question about who the "god of heaven, creator of all things, God of Isreal" in Is 48, who was sent by the father and spirit was?

Or can I just move on.. because he has no desire to discuss anything.

You can move on. It appears His indoctrination is complete. May God have mercy on his soul.

 

[jaybird88]

One cannot be a Christian and knowingly reject the God of Christianity, who is a Trinity, and who is the One true God.

interesting. makes me think of something Jesus taught.

Mat 15 3-9
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus rebuked the pharisees for following doctrines of man and today Christians rebuke other Christians for NOT following doctrines of man.
and that was not the only time Jesus taught against man made doctrines.

 

[jaybird88]

And what do you call people who insist on teaching doctrine that is man made and cannot be so done from either the Bible, Jesus or His disciples? And where did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible, or to set yourself up to judge others?


Quasar92

did you kow that there are some Jews today that keep 2 Torahs, a written torah and oral torah. the oral torah makes all man made commands equal to commands of our Lord, it also gives power to the rabbis to make law that is equal to the Law of our Lord. it seems as if many Christians are heading down the same road when they present their man made laws as laws of our Lord. many of these people are the same ones that say Jesus did away with the law, maybe He did that to give power to man to write our own laws.

 

[FreeNChrist]

interesting. makes me think of something Jesus taught.

Mat 15 3-9
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus rebuked the pharisees for following doctrines of man and today Christians rebuke other Christians for NOT following doctrines of man.
and that was not the only time Jesus taught against man made doctrines.

If you knowingly deny the God of Christianity who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the One and only true God, you are not a Christian. So there are no Christians rebuking Christians here.

 

[jaybird88]

If you knowingly deny the God of Christianity who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and the One and only true God, you are not a Christian. So there are no Christians rebuking Christians here.

dont add and exaggerate to try and make your point.
rejecting the Father, i agree, but thats not what i said.
the trinity is a doctrine of man. so by definition, yes you are rebuking other Christians for not following man made traditions. just as Jesus taught against.

 

[bluto]

I'm sorry quasar, you keep making unfounded statements mostly by taking people out of context and not knowing your Bible. You quoted "esteemed" Trinitarians who believe the Trinity but yet you use them to show the Trinity is not found in the Bible. And there are a few people around here that agree with you. Since I started this thread, "Can the Trinity Be Blically proven" I will try and approach this matter a different way.

Do you know the definition of a "syllogism?" A syllogism in logic is a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given premises, one major premise and one minor premise. And btw, in logic there is "deductive" reasoning and "inductive" reasoning. This type of reasoning also consist of premises in order to reach a conclusion. The following is a syllogism that I would like you to think about and then tell me if it's true because the "premise" is true. If it's not true then tell me why? Anybody can answer if they like.

If the Bible teaches that There is ONE GOD

and

If in the Bible The Father is identifiec as God

and

If in the Bible His Son is identified as God

and

If in the Bible their Spirit is identified as God

THEN the doctrine of the Trinity is valid

OR

The Bible is wrong. What I have done is produced a deductive syllogism. Please show me where the structure of my argument is flawed. If you can then I will gladly provide the evidence for each element in the syllogism from the Bible. You also made this statement which really shows your not thinking. "there was no Son in the OT excepts God's prophecy that He was going to be a Father." You then gave some verses. I will deal with your statement after were done with the syllogism business.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[FreeNChrist]

dont add and exaggerate to try and make your point.
rejecting the Father, i agree, but thats not what i said.
the trinity is a doctrine of man. so by definition, yes you are rebuking other Christians for not following man made traditions. just as Jesus taught against.

I didn't add or exaggerate anything. I simply stated it the way it is. The Trinity is not optional or debatable for Christians.

 

[bluto]

dont add and exaggerate to try and make your point.
rejecting the Father, i agree, but thats not what i said.
the trinity is a doctrine of man. so by definition, yes you are rebuking other Christians for not following man made traditions. just as Jesus taught against.

Who told you the trinity is a doctrine of man? What men made it up and when was it made up? Secondly, if you reject the Son of God you are rejecting God the Father. "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." 1 John 2:22,23. And btw, here's an oldie but a goody, "But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." Matthew 10:33.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[jaybird88]

I didn't add or exaggerate anything. I simply stated it the way it is. The Trinity is not optional or debatable for Christians.

please point me to the scripture where Jesus teaches this.
dont show me scriptures trying to prove the doctrine. show me where Jesus Himself says one can not follow Him unless we proclaim this doctrine. do you understand the difference?