Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?
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Oh wow rba, that was real "cogent" answer? First of all I did "fathom" your answer and that was the reason for my reply which btw you did not rebutt. Instead making immature comments the likes of which, "The Lord will show you when you stand before Him" show me why I'm wrong? Anybody can make claims/statements but you have to prove your claim by using the Bible.
Now, I gave you solid proof that in my opening post that there are three and only three persons in the entire Bible that are clearly identified as God and yet there is only "ONE GOD." Maybe you can tell me in what respect is God one in being? In fact, I'll even help you. At John 10:30 Jesus said the following: "I and the Father we are one." After Jesus said that the Jews at vs33 said, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You being a man make Yourself out God."
So again, in what respect is Jesus Christ one with God the Father? Even the Jews knew what Jesus meant, why don't you?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Now, I gave you solid proof that in my opening post that there are three and only three persons in the entire Bible that are clearly identified as God and yet there is only "ONE GOD." Maybe you can tell me in what respect is God one in being? In fact, I'll even help you. At John 10:30 Jesus said the following: "I and the Father we are one." After Jesus said that the Jews at vs33 said, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You being a man make Yourself out God."
So again, in what respect is Jesus Christ one with God the Father? Even the Jews knew what Jesus meant, why don't you?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
J
1 John 5:7 Commentaries: For there are three that testify:
there is a link to all the notes and history of the passage. its missing from all the early text and its never quoted by any church father. it was never used by these early church fathers because it did not exist until about the 1500s.
there is a link to all the notes and history of the passage. its missing from all the early text and its never quoted by any church father. it was never used by these early church fathers because it did not exist until about the 1500s.
When you speak the Truth, it is the Holy Spirit (God’s Spirit) manifesting Himself through you.
Matthew 10:20 explicitly says "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." The meaning, of course, refers to the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13:11 which notes, "but when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do you premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."
Also, John 14:9 says, “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
In this book of John, it allows us to see Jesus as God. It is the only one of the gospels that make a point of presenting Jesus identity as God. Though John presents Jesus as the Savior of mankind, the main stress in this Gospel is Jesus deity.
If you have had trouble understanding God's overall plan, John reveals that plan in a simple form of understanding. When you take the entire book of John and understand the overall picture given in it, it will strengthen your overall faith and walk in Christ.
The word "John" in the Hebrew tongue means "God's gift", and this book is truly a gift to each of us.
The first three Gospels presented the Humanity of Christ, and this is important in that it shows Christ as our kinsman redeemer, for He laid down His life for all mankind that would repent and come to Him by faith.
There is not much translation required from the Hebrew tongue in this Gospel of John, for John presented his teaching in the Greek tongue, and therefore when it came from the Greek to the English, the translation remained. It was translated in such a fashion where the lay person could understand.
Where John writes, "When ye have seen the Son, ye have seen the Father." This book will help you understand the other Books, and see the three offices of the Godhead in them. There is only one God, but He does have the three offices, and the book of John presents the office of Jesus, the Son of the Living God, while at the same time presenting Him as God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus Christ is the Living Word. This earth age of flesh man, just like the earth age that was before this, shall pass away, but God Word shall never change.
Jesus is the same today as He was in that first earth age, and tomorrow and into the eternity He will remain the same.
Matthew 10:20 explicitly says "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." The meaning, of course, refers to the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13:11 which notes, "but when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do you premeditate; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."
Also, John 14:9 says, “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
In this book of John, it allows us to see Jesus as God. It is the only one of the gospels that make a point of presenting Jesus identity as God. Though John presents Jesus as the Savior of mankind, the main stress in this Gospel is Jesus deity.
If you have had trouble understanding God's overall plan, John reveals that plan in a simple form of understanding. When you take the entire book of John and understand the overall picture given in it, it will strengthen your overall faith and walk in Christ.
The word "John" in the Hebrew tongue means "God's gift", and this book is truly a gift to each of us.
The first three Gospels presented the Humanity of Christ, and this is important in that it shows Christ as our kinsman redeemer, for He laid down His life for all mankind that would repent and come to Him by faith.
There is not much translation required from the Hebrew tongue in this Gospel of John, for John presented his teaching in the Greek tongue, and therefore when it came from the Greek to the English, the translation remained. It was translated in such a fashion where the lay person could understand.
Where John writes, "When ye have seen the Son, ye have seen the Father." This book will help you understand the other Books, and see the three offices of the Godhead in them. There is only one God, but He does have the three offices, and the book of John presents the office of Jesus, the Son of the Living God, while at the same time presenting Him as God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus Christ is the Living Word. This earth age of flesh man, just like the earth age that was before this, shall pass away, but God Word shall never change.
Jesus is the same today as He was in that first earth age, and tomorrow and into the eternity He will remain the same.
jaybird88 is right, this verse was added .
Comma Johanneum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum
Comma Johanneum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are NOT seperate beings.
They can appear as seperate... but are not spiritually seperate.
They CANNOT be spiritually seperate.
If you believe in monotheism.. that means there is the ONE being God. Not three beings that are somehow 'God' in parenthesis. ONE being.
Jesus is God.. the Father is God.. the Holy Spirit is God.. in one being..
God expressing Himself in different substances/essences.
Each expression fully God.
Humans have a mind body and soul in one body. 3 in one. One thing-- human... in 3 expressions/substances.
Light.. when put thru a prism has many shades of 3 base colours. 3 in one. The one thing.. light.. with three expressions/substances.
Water.. can simultaneously be ice, steam and liquid depending on what is happening to it. One thing.. water.. in 3 essences/substances.
I can see how the Father is not the same expression as the Son..and the Holy Spirit is not the same expression as these. But they CANNOT be seperated into different beings.
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. The Son.. is the image and expression of God. Personal. The Father is analogous to being the overarching all creative mind of God.
When I get to heaven.. I imagine I will meet God. Not Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father as seperate beings.
God is defined as one God in Genesis.
God also said let 'US make man in OUR image'
Jesus is the Word of God.. and is described as being with God in the beginning.
The Spirit of God moved 'across the face of the waters'
The Father is I imagine the creative mind..overarching guidance..
Here is the trinity.
One triune God.. one being.. three expressions/substances.
That's how I see it. Aside from this.. we are talking about God here. He can express Himself anyway He chooses.
You really wanna get quizzical.. then consider how the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. Is that millions and millions of Holy Spirits?
They can appear as seperate... but are not spiritually seperate.
They CANNOT be spiritually seperate.
If you believe in monotheism.. that means there is the ONE being God. Not three beings that are somehow 'God' in parenthesis. ONE being.
Jesus is God.. the Father is God.. the Holy Spirit is God.. in one being..
God expressing Himself in different substances/essences.
Each expression fully God.
Humans have a mind body and soul in one body. 3 in one. One thing-- human... in 3 expressions/substances.
Light.. when put thru a prism has many shades of 3 base colours. 3 in one. The one thing.. light.. with three expressions/substances.
Water.. can simultaneously be ice, steam and liquid depending on what is happening to it. One thing.. water.. in 3 essences/substances.
I can see how the Father is not the same expression as the Son..and the Holy Spirit is not the same expression as these. But they CANNOT be seperated into different beings.
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. The Son.. is the image and expression of God. Personal. The Father is analogous to being the overarching all creative mind of God.
When I get to heaven.. I imagine I will meet God. Not Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father as seperate beings.
God is defined as one God in Genesis.
God also said let 'US make man in OUR image'
Jesus is the Word of God.. and is described as being with God in the beginning.
The Spirit of God moved 'across the face of the waters'
The Father is I imagine the creative mind..overarching guidance..
Here is the trinity.
One triune God.. one being.. three expressions/substances.
That's how I see it. Aside from this.. we are talking about God here. He can express Himself anyway He chooses.
You really wanna get quizzical.. then consider how the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. Is that millions and millions of Holy Spirits?
Oh and yes.. 'these three are one' is added into the KJV and some other bible versions.. but this verse is entirely consistent with the rest of the bible. It was added for clarity.. but contradicts nothing.
Just look at Revelation.
This is Jesus speaking to the churches.. which is also the Spirit speaking to the churches... and Jesus is referred to as the Alpha Omega, first and last... which are the exact same words used for the Father.
There is no seperation here.
One being God.. in three expressions/substances.
Just look at Revelation.
This is Jesus speaking to the churches.. which is also the Spirit speaking to the churches... and Jesus is referred to as the Alpha Omega, first and last... which are the exact same words used for the Father.
There is no seperation here.
One being God.. in three expressions/substances.
John 8:18 (KJV)
[1] I am one that bear witness of myself,
[2] and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
[2] and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
R
I suppose you will now tell us; the following verse in the KJV wasen't "Around" until the 1500's either......I Corinthians 12 verse 5: "And there are DIFFERENCES OF ADMINISTRATIONS, BUT THE SAME LORD".
and what about this one: Ephesians 4 verse 5:
" ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM"
The Lord is what God The eternal Spirit, was addressed in the OT, and Jesus in the NT is also addressed as "The Lord" and there is only 1 Lord, so please explain too us how the 2 Administrations , are 2 persons???
and what about this one: Ephesians 4 verse 5:
" ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM"
The Lord is what God The eternal Spirit, was addressed in the OT, and Jesus in the NT is also addressed as "The Lord" and there is only 1 Lord, so please explain too us how the 2 Administrations , are 2 persons???
They are reckoned as two which I think are attributes of one Spirit .( It works the best for myself)
The word Father is used to indicate that not seen, and the Son of man as that seen. This is in respect to a onetime outward demonstration of the promised invisible work of pouring out his Spirit (not seen, the eternal )as if it was blood (that seen, the temporal ) .
But altogether it cannot be more than one Spirit. One work of one faith. God is Spirit. And in the end one administrator (the anointing Holy Spirit, called Christ.) Who works in us in respect to the suffering of Christ and the glory that did follow.... the resurrection by the holiness of His Spirit, not flesh (no such thing as holiness of flesh ) Just as the same administer that worked to in the old testament saints except with them forehand .
One of the problem today is that many from my experience want to discard the fact that the Holy Spirit does dwell in us is the same as Spirit of Christ that lived in the saints on the other side of the cross. They would make Pentecost the vantage time when men could claim the Spirit of Christ is in them . They say the old testament saint did not have the Spirit of Christ he would come and go but not be there as there daily confidence that he who has begun the good work of salvation. He will finish it to the end of time.
Again many today put a division between the old testament saints and those on this side of the cross.
.
But In Romans we are informed if any man regardless of time period does not have the Spirit of Christ than neither do they belong to him .
We receive the end of our faith as the work of God that works in us in the same way . The same work of one His faith..
H e purifies the hearts of the Jew and Gentile by a work of His faith alike (no difference) He is no respecter of persons.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the "salvation of your souls".Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when "it" testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the "Spirit of God" dwell in you. Now if any man have not the "Spirit of Christ", he is none of his.
The word Father is used to indicate that not seen, and the Son of man as that seen. This is in respect to a onetime outward demonstration of the promised invisible work of pouring out his Spirit (not seen, the eternal )as if it was blood (that seen, the temporal ) .
But altogether it cannot be more than one Spirit. One work of one faith. God is Spirit. And in the end one administrator (the anointing Holy Spirit, called Christ.) Who works in us in respect to the suffering of Christ and the glory that did follow.... the resurrection by the holiness of His Spirit, not flesh (no such thing as holiness of flesh ) Just as the same administer that worked to in the old testament saints except with them forehand .
One of the problem today is that many from my experience want to discard the fact that the Holy Spirit does dwell in us is the same as Spirit of Christ that lived in the saints on the other side of the cross. They would make Pentecost the vantage time when men could claim the Spirit of Christ is in them . They say the old testament saint did not have the Spirit of Christ he would come and go but not be there as there daily confidence that he who has begun the good work of salvation. He will finish it to the end of time.
Again many today put a division between the old testament saints and those on this side of the cross.
.
But In Romans we are informed if any man regardless of time period does not have the Spirit of Christ than neither do they belong to him .
We receive the end of our faith as the work of God that works in us in the same way . The same work of one His faith..
H e purifies the hearts of the Jew and Gentile by a work of His faith alike (no difference) He is no respecter of persons.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the "salvation of your souls".Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was "in them" did signify, when "it" testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1Pe 1:9
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the "Spirit of God" dwell in you. Now if any man have not the "Spirit of Christ", he is none of his.
R
Ok, I agree with your assesment. The only thing I disagree, is people claiming it is a "Trinity" of 3 Persons, when it actually is 1 Eternal Spirit with different Administrations, or 2 Administrations (Spirit and Flesh) revealed unto us. One Eternal Spirit/ One Body seen. They are not Person A,.B, & C in The Godhead. Jesus declared in John 10 verse 30 (KJV) "I, AND MY FATHER ARE ONE". If you or I or any other male on this site declare "I and my father are One" we would be liars. Jesus, can declare that because The Father, The Spirit, Controls What the Son Said and did 24/7...Now; Jesus had emotions, and feelings like all humans do, as well as weaknesses, tears, crying out, pain, suffering. He never let his Flesh however get the best of him emotionally. The Spirit Sustained him in all he taught or did..For OUR EXAMPLE to follow after he died, and ascended back back unto heaven.
"THE SPIRIT (THE FATHER) IS WILLING, BUT THE FLESH (The Father seen in a fleshly body, Jesus) is WEAK.
"THE SPIRIT (THE FATHER) IS WILLING, BUT THE FLESH (The Father seen in a fleshly body, Jesus) is WEAK.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are NOT seperate beings.
They can appear as seperate... but are not spiritually seperate.
They CANNOT be spiritually seperate.
If you believe in monotheism.. that means there is the ONE being God. Not three beings that are somehow 'God' in parenthesis. ONE being.
Jesus is God.. the Father is God.. the Holy Spirit is God.. in one being..
God expressing Himself in different substances/essences.
Each expression fully God.
Humans have a mind body and soul in one body. 3 in one. One thing-- human... in 3 expressions/substances.
Light.. when put thru a prism has many shades of 3 base colours. 3 in one. The one thing.. light.. with three expressions/substances.
Water.. can simultaneously be ice, steam and liquid depending on what is happening to it. One thing.. water.. in 3 essences/substances.
I can see how the Father is not the same expression as the Son..and the Holy Spirit is not the same expression as these. But they CANNOT be seperated into different beings.
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. The Son.. is the image and expression of God. Personal. The Father is analogous to being the overarching all creative mind of God.
When I get to heaven.. I imagine I will meet God. Not Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father as seperate beings.
God is defined as one God in Genesis.
God also said let 'US make man in OUR image'
Jesus is the Word of God.. and is described as being with God in the beginning.
The Spirit of God moved 'across the face of the waters'
The Father is I imagine the creative mind..overarching guidance..
Here is the trinity.
One triune God.. one being.. three expressions/substances.
That's how I see it. Aside from this.. we are talking about God here. He can express Himself anyway He chooses.
You really wanna get quizzical.. then consider how the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. Is that millions and millions of Holy Spirits?
They can appear as seperate... but are not spiritually seperate.
They CANNOT be spiritually seperate.
If you believe in monotheism.. that means there is the ONE being God. Not three beings that are somehow 'God' in parenthesis. ONE being.
Jesus is God.. the Father is God.. the Holy Spirit is God.. in one being..
God expressing Himself in different substances/essences.
Each expression fully God.
Humans have a mind body and soul in one body. 3 in one. One thing-- human... in 3 expressions/substances.
Light.. when put thru a prism has many shades of 3 base colours. 3 in one. The one thing.. light.. with three expressions/substances.
Water.. can simultaneously be ice, steam and liquid depending on what is happening to it. One thing.. water.. in 3 essences/substances.
I can see how the Father is not the same expression as the Son..and the Holy Spirit is not the same expression as these. But they CANNOT be seperated into different beings.
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. The Son.. is the image and expression of God. Personal. The Father is analogous to being the overarching all creative mind of God.
When I get to heaven.. I imagine I will meet God. Not Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father as seperate beings.
God is defined as one God in Genesis.
God also said let 'US make man in OUR image'
Jesus is the Word of God.. and is described as being with God in the beginning.
The Spirit of God moved 'across the face of the waters'
The Father is I imagine the creative mind..overarching guidance..
Here is the trinity.
One triune God.. one being.. three expressions/substances.
That's how I see it. Aside from this.. we are talking about God here. He can express Himself anyway He chooses.
You really wanna get quizzical.. then consider how the Holy Spirit indwells every believer. Is that millions and millions of Holy Spirits?
[h=1]Scripture verifying Jesus is the Son of God/God the Son, among others:[/h][h=1][/h][h=1]John 1:1-2:[/h][h=1]1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.[/h]
[h=1]Psalm 45:6-7New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT="][FONT="]6 [FONT="]Your throne, O God,[FONT="][a][/FONT][FONT="] will last for ever and ever;[/FONT][/FONT] a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][h=4]Heb.1:8-9: (NIV)[/h]8But about the Son He says: “Your throne, OGod, will last forever and ever, andrighteousness will be the scepter of Yourkingdom. 9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has placed You above Your companions by anointing You with the oil of joy.”
Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35 verify the fact that God, who is the Holy Spirit, according to the Scriptures, is also the Father of Jesus.
Quasar92
[/FONT]
God is a triune being, interpersonal and inter loving. He is more than three administrations, unless you mean different personal administrations.
God is not spirit and flesh. The only fleshly part is Jesus manhood. (Spirit when applied to God indicates oneness and is revealed in Threeness personally interreacting).
that is the problem when using human language to describe God. He is not three separate persons but One being revealed as having interpersonal Threeness.
But how are they one? We can be one in many ways. I can say 'God and I are one (in this)' Jesus clearly meant more that that. He was ALWAYS one with the Father, but not necessarily literally.
but we can say that!!! see above.
The Father did not control what the Son said. He agreed with the Son, and the Son with the Father. Otherwise why did the Son pray to the Father 'not my will but thine be done (voluntarily)'.
Yes by HIS Spirit. Scripture reveals that we must distinguish the Spirit of the Father, from the Spirit of the Son and from the Holy Spirit.
HIS Spirit sustained Him long before He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism
Pure invention, and totally unscriptural. THIS was spoken of the sleeping disciples. HIS Spirit was strong throughout.
God is not spirit and flesh. The only fleshly part is Jesus manhood. (Spirit when applied to God indicates oneness and is revealed in Threeness personally interreacting).
that is the problem when using human language to describe God. He is not three separate persons but One being revealed as having interpersonal Threeness.
But how are they one? We can be one in many ways. I can say 'God and I are one (in this)' Jesus clearly meant more that that. He was ALWAYS one with the Father, but not necessarily literally.
but we can say that!!! see above.
The Father did not control what the Son said. He agreed with the Son, and the Son with the Father. Otherwise why did the Son pray to the Father 'not my will but thine be done (voluntarily)'.
Yes by HIS Spirit. Scripture reveals that we must distinguish the Spirit of the Father, from the Spirit of the Son and from the Holy Spirit.
HIS Spirit sustained Him long before He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism
Pure invention, and totally unscriptural. THIS was spoken of the sleeping disciples. HIS Spirit was strong throughout.
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Look rba, 1 Corinthians 12 is teaching about the administration of spiritual gifts given to Christians by the Holy Spirit for the common good of the church. And yes, I know vs4 says, "the same Spirit. And yes I know vs5 says, "the same Lord, and vs6 says, the same God. And of course the Bible obviously teaches us there is only one God.
The Bible also teaches us that there are three and only three persons "IDENTIFIED" as the one God. Not three different or separate beings of God. For example, you have at Luke 3:22, "and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him/Jesus in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "Thou are My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased."
Can you explain to all of us here what word would you use besides persons to describe this event? You have the Holy Spirit in the verse, you have Jesus Christ in the verse and you have God the Father in the verse. And like I said, all three of them are identified in the Bible as the one God. So what are they if they are not distinct persons?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The Bible also teaches us that there are three and only three persons "IDENTIFIED" as the one God. Not three different or separate beings of God. For example, you have at Luke 3:22, "and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him/Jesus in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "Thou are My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased."
Can you explain to all of us here what word would you use besides persons to describe this event? You have the Holy Spirit in the verse, you have Jesus Christ in the verse and you have God the Father in the verse. And like I said, all three of them are identified in the Bible as the one God. So what are they if they are not distinct persons?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
R
I agree, if we don't read and cross check the verses l, then Yes, i can fully understand how people can see it as 3 persons. The Catholic Church started this beleif in 325AD at the Council of Nicea..The Sun God Trinity prominent beleifs in Pagan Cultures also was the key beleif system in the ancient world.
At the Council of Nicea, They brought in the Gnostics , a cult, and declared "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" was like The Sun God Trinity of
"ISIS...HORUS...SEB" The sun god trinity..
At the Council of Nicea, They brought in the Gnostics , a cult, and declared "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" was like The Sun God Trinity of
"ISIS...HORUS...SEB" The sun god trinity..
You do talk from ignorance. The Trinity as such was taught by Tertullian c 200 AD long before 325 AD and the Council of Nicea, said nothing about Osiris, Horus and Seb. That is pure invention. You've been reading too may fairy stories. But the triunity of God was taught by Jesus and the Apostles. e.g.Math 28.19,
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