Can we be saved in all three tenses ? Past, present, and future.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
C

Chuckt

Guest
#141
#141
Re: Hebrews 6:4 does not mean you can lose your salvation

Ahwatukee said:
The scripture in Hebrews is not speaking about people who fall into sin in the process of their walk. It is speaking about those who completely fall away, apostasy, (departure from a previous standing of faith). It is not saying that it is impossible for them to be saved because God is not able to, but because of their spiritual state. If it was just speaking about believers who fall into commons sin as a Christian, then no one would be saved. It's not talking about that! It talking about complete apostasy. I myself have faltered terribly in my life, but I could not remain in that state and that because the Seed of God remains in me. The true believer will not be able to remain living in the sinful nature and that because they have the Spirit of God and His word remains in them. It will grieve them to the point to where they wrestle all the more harder to get clear of the sinful nature. Living according to the sinful nature leads to death, whether believer or unbeliever. It has the same affect. For regarding this, scripture says the following:

"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

This means that, you can say that you are in Christ all you want, but if you are sowing to the sinful nature, you're not going to get by God, because he searches the hearts and the minds and he knows what we are sowing to.
Click to expand...
The only isn't forgivable is the blasphemy of the holy ghost which I define as dying saying "no" to Jesus. The bible says we can turn and return to God. The Bible says we can repent. The Bible also says that God can save to the uttermost and that God looks for the sheep that has wandered off. Who shut the door on the ark? It wasn't man. God determines who is too far gone and what you think is impossible with man is possible with God.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#142
#142
Ahwatukee said:
Again, that sealing is contingent upon continuing in faith. I guarantee, if anyone who is in Christ stops having faith and goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, that person is accumulating sin and is on their way to death.

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." (James 5:18)
Click to expand...
No. The Bible says we are sealed by the holy spirit to the day of redemption. The word comes from signet ring which means we are fenced in. We become God's property and He will chastise us to come back to Him but He will be gentle and use nudges until He has to be stronger.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#143
#143
Ahwatukee said:
Again, that sealing is contingent upon continuing in faith. I guarantee, if anyone who is in Christ stops having faith and goes back into willfully living according to the sinful nature, that person is accumulating sin and is on their way to death.

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." (James 5:18)
Click to expand...
It could be talking about a non Christian because they are sinners. The surrounding verses use the word "convert" which indicates to me it is talking about a non Christian. You can't force verses to say what you want just to make it agree with your theology. The rule of my church is to say what scripture says.
 
Last edited:
C

Chuckt

Guest
#144
#144
Re: Hebrews 6:4 does not mean you can lose your salvation

Chuckt said:
The only isn't forgivable is the blasphemy of the holy ghost which I define as dying saying "no" to Jesus. The bible says we can turn and return to God. The Bible says we can repent. The Bible also says that God can save to the uttermost and that God looks for the sheep that has wandered off. Who shut the door on the ark? It wasn't man. God determines who is too far gone and what you think is impossible with man is possible with God.
Click to expand...
Here is where spelling correction on tablets runs fowl. The only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy or a continual rejection of Jesus that is final when you die. They made their choice.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#145
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#145
Wouldnt Romans 12:3 be speaking to every man "among you" ( given its the household "of faith") those to whom God has dealt a measure of faith?

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Only because Paul also said, "all men" have not faith also

2 Thes 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men:
for all men have not faith.

 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#146
#146
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Wouldnt Romans 12:3 be speaking to every man "among you" ( given its the household "of faith") those to whom God has dealt a measure of faith?

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Only because Paul also said, "all men" have not faith also

2 Thes 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men:
for all men have not faith.
Click to expand...
Faith comes through hearing the word before you are a Christian.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#148
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#148
Chuckt said:
I don't agree because Romans 12:3 says that God hath given every man (not some) a measure of faith so even the non Christian has faith.
Click to expand...
I should have quoted your post chuckt, to this is what I was referring
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#149
#149
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Its a gift from God, and would be one of the first fruits of the Spirit
Click to expand...
There are prepositions for the holy spirit and they alongside, in and upon. The holy spirit comes along side the nonchristian. Faith takes root before you make a decision. If it is fruit of the holy spirit, is it before or after salvation? Faith comes from hearing.

I believed in Jesus before I was saved. I had some faith. I had faith because of the word and from others telling me but I wasn't converted yet.
 
Last edited:
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#150
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#150
Chuckt said:
There are prepositions for the holy spirit and they alongside, in and upon. The holy spirit comes along side the nonchristian. Faith takes root before you make a decision. If it is fruit of the holy spirit, is it before or after salvation? Faith comes from hearing.
Click to expand...
Faith is a fruit "of the Spirit" (a gift of God) not of ourselves, Paul did say not all men have faith in the one verse and when he was adressing the other he is speaking to every man among them (even in the household of faith) in respects to the gift of God. I dont see Paul as contradicting anything there, but the way you were putting it was making Paul contradict is all.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#151
#151
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Faith is a fruit "of the Spirit" (a gift of God) not of ourselves, Paul did say not all men have faith in the one verse and when he was adressing the other he is speaking to every man among them (even in the household of faith) in respects to the gift of God. I dont see Paul as contradicting anything there, but the way you were putting it was making Paul contradict is all.
Click to expand...
Galatians 3:5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Believing is man's responsibility. Salvation is the fruit that comes from it.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#153
#153
PilgrimPassingThru said:
I dont have a problem with Paul's words, I was seeking to validate Pauls.
Click to expand...
It may be a hard thing to figure out because if you look up the word in the NIV or NASB concordance, the number of times it is translated will change.

I don't think anyone can just make a snap judgment on this for several reasons.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#154
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#154
Chuckt said:
It may be a hard thing to figure out because if you look up the word in the NIV or NASB concordance, the number of times it is translated will change.

I don't think anyone can just make a snap judgment on this for several reasons.
Click to expand...
I think I missed you on snap judgments, when trying to validate Paul. I still feel Paul is correct.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#155
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#155
Chuckt said:
Galatians 3:5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Believing is man's responsibility. Salvation is the fruit that comes from it.
Click to expand...
We are saved by believing what we heard, and must continue in that same belief. If you turn away from "what you heard" then you have become unplugged. Jesus said, whoever would come after me must take their cross daily, which is continuance in faith. Unless you remain faithful in Christ you cannot be saved. Salvation is a free gift and just like any gift, it has to be received.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#156
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#156
Heres a couple verses showing so much

Ephes 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that
ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning.
If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you,
ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (and 2 John 1:9)
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#157
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#157
Re: Hebrews 6:4 does not mean you can lose your salvation

=============================================

Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.

All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.” Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
“Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

=====================================================

Chuckt, your definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is also incorrect. According to the scripture above, the Jews committed blasphemy against the Spirit by claiming that Jesus was driving out demons by the prince of demons. Therefore, since he was driving them out by the Holy Spirit, they were calling the Holy Spirit unclean. That is the only definition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Those who reject Christ are merely remaining in the same state that they have always been in, which is unreconciled to God, ergo, they are still in their sins. Nowhere in scripture is blasphemy against the Spirit defined as saying "no" to Jesus. In fact regarding this, in the scripture above, Jesus said, "if anyone speaks against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven him." In order for a person to commit blasphemy against the Spirit, one would have to make the same exact claim that the Jews did by calling the Holy Spirit unclean.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#158
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#158
The apostles assure us saying

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness;
and be content with such things as ye have:
for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

David warns His own Son Solomon about forsaking the LORD here

1 Chr 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

The LORD has not forsaken them that seek him

Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD,
hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Hebrews warns us about departing from the living God

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief,
in departing from the living God.

Which appears to be the same theme, departing from the LORD like here

Jerm 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed,
And they that depart from me shall be written in the earth,
because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

Just to add a few
 
Last edited:
V

valiant

Senior Member
#159
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#159
Ahwatukee said:
We are saved by believing what we heard, and must continue in that same belief. If you turn away from "what you heard" then you have become unplugged. Jesus said, whoever would come after me must take their cross daily, which is continuance in faith. Unless you remain faithful in Christ you cannot be saved. Salvation is a free gift and just like any gift, it has to be received.
Click to expand...
Jesus said, But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).

In other words Jesus says we CANNOT BECOME unplugged, it is impossible (without adding to the text)
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#160
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#160
"I am sinless" would be an arrogant claim, because only God could say whether that is true or not.
Paul said simply he did not judge himself.

In the sacrifices offered in the temple there was a continual sacrifice for Israel that was given morning and afternoon for the sin in general. Every defined sin had its punishment, and also the idea a sacrifice had to be made. The fact sacrifices were offered all the time, failure was assumed and taken into account. As a child we expect to grow from ignorance to understanding. Along the way there will be learning, failures and successes.

Life is a walk from being born to our deaths, and in the Lord, eternity. So what is it all about? Learning to choose love and walk with God in communion, to know good and evil, and choose good, because you love it.

Now on this walk, many battles are struggling with something that possesses you against what you desire to do.
How can you distinguish between those along for the ride and those walking to victory? Only at the end.

To give up and say there is no victory, that the cross is actually just white washed defeat, is to take the power out of love and the cross. Now I know, literally know, based on what God has done in me, that there is no defeat, it is in seeing what life is, and walking in it that we have victory. It is why the apostles went to their deaths proclaiming this victory, because there is nothing else of value, it is eternal life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.