Can we just focus on one point?

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Mar 23, 2016
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Yet said:
So now we are finally down with the truth of the matter. You guys have a spirit of rebellion. You Ask for scripture, i give it. Then yon dance around it sayind your not going to read all that. Or you turn the verses completely on their head stating insanity such as 'well that doesn't mean that for us or some other gobbledegook non sense then accuse me of non sense.
Please show me where I have misinterpreted Scripture.

I have gone through Rom 11, 1 Cor 12, and Eph 4 as you requested --- See posts #5, #7, and #8 of this thread. Please provide Scriptural proof that I did not interpret properly. Thank you.



Yet said:
Isaiah speaks well of you. Ch. 5, vs. 20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. That are wise in their own eyes.
Those verses apply to me???? Thank you for revealing who you are and what you are about.



Yet said:
The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.

Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.

I see even clearer now how obstinacy and pride has over taken christendom. It's reached a flash point.
Scripture gives warning to these events. And for some reason, you think/believe I fellowship in a congregation that is "sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption" : |

For your information, the congregation I attend is warned of circumstances surrounding us and, yes, we are warned there might be a time to disperse into smaller groups. We are being prepared and we are preparing for such incidents.



Yet said:
I always had hope the body of Christ would recover her heritage and set things in order. I no longer have that hope.
The body of Christ will not "recover her heritage" nor will the body of Christ "set things in order" on this earth. This earth is corrupt, but we have escaped the corruption through the exceeding great and precious promises given unto us. The body of Christ still on the earth tells us that the time is not yet ripe for the wicked to be revealed. However, the time is close and the mystery of iniquity is already working (and has been from the time of Paul).

Until then, though, members of the body of Christ are to fellowship one with another, build each other up, and care for one another as directed in Scripture. I do hope and pray that you find your place in the body of Christ in the area you live and that you minister to others who are in need. Do not hide your light under a bushel. Let your light shine so that your good works bring glory to Father in heaven.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Thank you for revealing who you are and what you are about.
Asking for specifics is too much for he who would rather smear everyone with the same brush. He rebels against doing what is requested of him and then accuses us of having a spirit of rebellion. I have made multiple posts to him about people I know who do not fit his stereotypes, but apparently he prefers his twisted take on things to the truth.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
I have asked you this before, I hope you will answer because I am trying to understand where you are coming from in a more complete way.

Do you believe in ekklesia, in true meaning of the word the spiritual bride of Christ?

While you revile against the institutions which is fair enough, and I agree that many are tied to the Roman Church behind the scenes and sometimes out in the open, would you also agree that there is a true body of believers who eternally belong to God and yes while some of those believers attend institutions that do not fit the biblical model it does not negate that they are not true believers?


Or do you think there adherence to a institution jeopardizes their security in Jesus or makes it impossible to be believers?



So now we are finally down with the truth of the matter. You guys have a spirit of rebellion. You Ask for scripture, i give it. Then yon dance around it sayind your not going to read all that. Or you turn the verses completely on their head stating insanity such as 'well that doesn't mean that for us or some other gobbledegook non sense then accuse me of non sense.

Wow. It's utterly stunning what I'm hearing out of your mouths. Unbearable. Black is white, white is black, up is down, down is up, left is right, right is left. Behold: The First Church of the Opposites.

Isaiah speaks well of you. Ch. 5, vs. 20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. That are wise in their own eyes.

The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.

Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.

I see even clearer now how obstinacy and pride has over taken christendom. It's reached a flash point. I was persecuted by the 'church' so called, years ago not understanding why. Today i get it. I'm a slow learner. I always had hope the body of Christ would recover her heritage and set things in order. I no longer have that hope. The best i can hope for is for a few to wake up from this monster called 'church' and come out from among them and be seperate and touch not the unclean thing.

So you order me to 'show us the scripture', then you cry 'im not gonna read all that', or 'thats not what it means'.

Wow! You are not opposing me, you are opposing the One who has sent me. And you oppose yourselves. 2Tim. 2:25

I'll start other threads on this. They'll be for the tender hearted and the ones that sense something is horribly wrong with this 'thing' falsely called church.
 
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eph610

Guest
So now we are finally down with the truth of the matter. You guys have a spirit of rebellion. You Ask for scripture, i give it. Then yon dance around it sayind your not going to read all that. Or you turn the verses completely on their head stating insanity such as 'well that doesn't mean that for us or some other gobbledegook non sense then accuse me of non sense.

Wow. It's utterly stunning what I'm hearing out of your mouths. Unbearable. Black is white, white is black, up is down, down is up, left is right, right is left. Behold: The First Church of the Opposites.

Isaiah speaks well of you. Ch. 5, vs. 20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. That are wise in their own eyes.

The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.

Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.

I see even clearer now how obstinacy and pride has over taken christendom. It's reached a flash point. I was persecuted by the 'church' so called, years ago not understanding why. Today i get it. I'm a slow learner. I always had hope the body of Christ would recover her heritage and set things in order. I no longer have that hope. The best i can hope for is for a few to wake up from this monster called 'church' and come out from among them and be seperate and touch not the unclean thing.

So you order me to 'show us the scripture', then you cry 'im not gonna read all that', or 'thats not what it means'.

Wow! You are not opposing me, you are opposing the One who has sent me. And you oppose yourselves. 2Tim. 2:25

I'll start other threads on this. They'll be for the tender hearted and the ones that sense something is horribly wrong with this 'thing' falsely called church.
Not a trap and not baiting you and honest question is all,
What should a NT fellowship meeting look like to you?

2nd request
 
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SteelToedKodiak

Guest
[video=youtube;9RqstehQd7Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RqstehQd7Y[/video]
 
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SteelToedKodiak

Guest
[video=youtube;gjz8JBid-V8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjz8JBid-V8[/video]
 
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Tintin

Guest
Asking for specifics is too much for he who would rather smear everyone with the same brush. He rebels against doing what is requested of him and then accuses us of having a spirit of rebellion. I have made multiple posts to him about people I know who do not fit his stereotypes, but apparently he prefers his twisted take on things to the truth.
You have to give him credit though for harping on about the same old crap in about a gazillion different ways for over two years now.



Or not.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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Yall crazy, just imagine if an unbeliever happened across this thread. What would you think?

The unbelievers see the theft of the poor and the hypocrisy already. They're way ahead on this.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Can you give us scripture supporting the modern pastor. You did refer to the itenerent preachers but thats apples and oranges.
Ephesians 4:
11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ,…

Well at least the word pastor is used.... God does use pastors and many souls are brought to Christ because of the work they do. We are all to point folks to Jesus no matter what our title. Just because there are some pastors who use the position for personal gain doesn't mean they all do.

General comments used in a broad way don't cover everyone. Just like all of one race aren't what ever comment you'd like to make such as all white people are rich.... Just not true... Or all men are dogs... again just not true some of them are pretty cool cats....lol
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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yet, why does one have to prove you wrong?

can't it be one has another application to the verses you have asked to look at that also is biblically correct? it could help if you would bring to light your own understanding of 1cor 12, and Roman 12 and Ephesians 4 .

Paul said not to muzzle the OX in ref to those who work in the Ministry as a Pastor . I think at times Paul too had to work and at times he was supported by the church. we see ion Acts that all gave and the church lacked nothing. I think your right to a point but it is not a sin to have a local body of believers provide a salary for the Pastor. I am a minster and I do not receive any payment but my senior Pastor does and he is a man of God. Could it be you are right and so are others? and depending on the situation both can be done?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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He won't. He's been asked in the past and he does "the little sidestep" thing. He once said something about meeting with two or three others, but that's all I've ever seen on it.

I've asked him 4 times in the past few months why he doesn't start his own fellowship and do it the way he thinks it should be done... I have come to the conclusion that he pictures himself as the lone voice, crying in the wilderness, and that he's comfortable in his martyrdom.

Finding a body of believers, or STARTING a body of believers would take that away from him. I pray that he will come back to the fellowship, and use his God-given talents to edify others.
yes, I agree

and a hearty Amen to "I pray that he will come back to the fellowship, and use his God-given talents to edify others."
 
Aug 15, 2009
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@Yet,

Acts 14:21-23 (KJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, [SUP]22 [/SUP]Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

1 Peter 5:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, [SUP]2 [/SUP]shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain,(filthy lucre's sake) but with eagerness; [SUP]3 [/SUP]nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

1 Peter 5:2 (NLT)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God.


Not for sordid gain - not greedy for money or material gain. WHY would such a phrase be constantly used UNLESS the elders were paid for their services by some churches?

All of these reasons usually surround a person's entrance into the ministry. But they must never be the reasons why a person enters the ministry and cares for God's people. The ministry is a call from God, and no person dare enter the ministry without a personal call to the ministry. But note: when the call comes, the person is to have a ready mind. He is to minister to God's people; he is to readily feed the flock of God. Practical Word Studies in The New Testament.

The elder or minister must take the oversight of the flock not for personal profit and gain, but of a ready mind. The Greek says that no person is to enter the ministry for "filthy lucre" ([FONT=&quot]mēde aischrokerdōs[/FONT][SUP]PWS: 1498[/SUP]), that is, for base gain, or for some soiled and dirty advantage. No person should ever enter the ministry...
• as a profession.
• as a means of livelihood.
• as a means to serve mankind.
• because people say he has the gifts for it.
• because people say he would make a good minister.
• because family and friends encourage him to enter the ministry.
All of these reasons usually surround a person's entrance into the ministry. But they must never be the reasons why a person enters the ministry and cares for God's people. The ministry is a call from God, and no person dare enter the ministry without a personal call to the ministry. But note: when the call comes, the person is to have a ready mind. He is to minister to God's people; he is to readily feed the flock of God.
Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary

These scriptures were written for two reasons:
1. To warn elders to not let greed be their motivation to minister (like some in today's church).
2. To warn those desiring to minister to not do so unless they're called by God, not the call of a successful career.

Yet, you knew these scriptures were here..... . Perhaps you wanted to prove the.....how shall we say this as mildly & kindly as possible..... the unlearnedness of modern christians/churches? If it was, you proved your point.



 
Aug 15, 2009
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1 Timothy 3:1-7 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer(KJV bishop), it is a fine work he desires to do. [SUP]2 [/SUP]An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [SUP]3 [/SUP]not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity [SUP]5 [/SUP](but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?), [SUP]6 [/SUP]and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

BISHOP

The word is once applied to Christ himself, "unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls" (1 Peter 2:25). It abounds in Pauline literature, and is used as an alternative for presbúteros or elder (Titus 1:5, 7; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tim. 4:14; Tim. 5:17, 19). The earliest ecclesiastical offices instituted in the church were those of elders and deacons, or rather the reverse, inasmuch as the latter office grew almost immediately out of the needs of the Christian community at Jerusalem (Acts 6:1-6). The presbyteral constitution of Jerusalem must have been very old (Acts 11:30) and was distinct from the apostolate (Acts 15:2, 4, 6, 22-23; Acts 16:4). As early as 50 AD Paul appointed "elders" in every church, with prayer and fasting (Acts 14:23), referring to the Asiatic churches before established. But in writing to the Philippians (Phil. 1:1) he speaks of "bishops" and "deacons." In the GentileChristian churches this title evidently had been adopted; and it is only in the Pastoral Epistles that we find the name "presbyters" applied. The name "presbyter" or "elder," familiar to the Jews, signifies their age and place in the church; while the other term "bishop" refers rather to their office. But both evidently have reference to the same persons. Their office is defined as "ruling" (Romans 12:8), "overseeing" (Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Peter 5:2), caring for the flock of God (Acts 20:28). But the word archeín, "to rule," in the hierarchical sense, is never used. Moreover, each church had a college of presbyter-bishops (Acts 20:17, 28; Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 4:14). During Paul's lifetime the church was evidently still unaware of the distinction between presbyters and bishops.
Of a formal ordination, in the later hierarchical sense, there is no trace as yet. The word "ordained" used in the King James Version (Acts 1:22) is an unwarrantable interpolation, rightly emended in the Revised Version (British and American). Neither the word cheirotonḗsantes (Acts 14:23, translated "appointed" the American Standard Revised Version) nor katastḗsēs (Titus 1:5, translated "appoint" the American Standard Revised Version) is capable of this translation. In rendering these words invaria bly by "ordain" the King James Version shows a vitium originis. No one doubts that the idea of ordination is extremely old in the history of the church, but the laying on of hands, mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 13:3; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6; compare Acts 14:26; Acts 15:40) points to the communication of a spiritual gift or to its invocation, rather than to the imparting of an official status.
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

There it is..... all the teachings for pastor/senior minister. And, yes, they're paid. There ARE many ministers in some churches due to their size. But, to have several in every church is a problem due to the lack of them, not the system of a single leader. It's getting more & more difficult finding good ministers..... sometimes any minister..... to fill a pulpit.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Another thought ... in Eph 4:11, please note it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who gives the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to His body.

A person can be a member of a congregation and the Lord Jesus Christ can have given that person as an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher to that church body and the person may or may not to function from the pulpit, or even the hierarchy of the congregational structure. Or a person may be given as an
apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher and not even belong to a congregation.

That is why God gives the instruction in Rom 12 that whatever gift of grace He has given is to be used by the believer fervently in spirit; serving the Lord (Rom 12:11).
 
Aug 15, 2009
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The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.

Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.
Now THAT you & I can agree on!
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
This was written by a pastors wife, I'm just a copy and paster looking at both sides of the conversation about pastors.


Pastors have a very special calling on their lives, and they need to be appreciated, cherished and encouraged as much as possible. I read an article recently that stated that many pastors are retiring or changing careers these days, because it is such a challenging and difficult job. My husband is a pastor, so I truly know and understand the challenges that he faces on a regular basis. I know the crazy schedule that he keeps and the tireless hours he works on behalf of our church family. Jesus said that he came that we might have an abundant life (John 10:10), and I know that this is true for pastors as well. So here are my 7 top Bible verses to encourage my husband and all pastors.
Isaiah 40:31 “…but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.”

God is the one who has called each one of us with a special purpose and career, and pastors are no exception. I chose this verse to encourage pastors, because I believe that it is important for our shepherds to know that God has their back. He knows the sacrifices that they make selflessly for the body of Christ, and so it is the Lord who will renew their strength like the eagles. And even though they work hard, and run ahead leading the church, with God’s help they will not grow weary and will not faint.
Jeremiah 3:15 “And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.”

This is one of my top seven verses to encourage pastors, because the Lord is saying that it is He that is raising up and providing shepherds after his own heart. God is the one who has blessed and called pastors with the talents, skills, and heart that the Lord wants for his people. This verse also states that God is the one who gives shepherds and leaders the “food” for the sheep—in other words, He gives pastors the knowledge and understanding that they need to feed the sheep.
1 Corinthians 15:58 “Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.”

I believe that pastors get discouraged sometimes when things are tough or their sheep are struggling with various trials, so it is important for them to remember that they are working for the Lord. It is also helpful to focus on the fact that since their labor is for God, they do not work in vain. Although good seed is being planted, it can take time for the seeds to grow and thrive. It’s important for pastors to hold fast to the hope they have in the Lord, knowing that in Him, good will win out in the end. Disappointments and challenges will come, but the Lord encourages all of us, including pastors, to be steadfast and immovable no matter what.
Galatians 6:9 “And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.”

This is a great verse to use in encouraging pastors, because it reminds them that their work is for a greater and eternal purpose. The Lord will give a harvest if they do not give up. Colossians 3:23-24 goes along with this verse, as the apostle Paul states, “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.” In other words, God will reward preachers and shepherds for their work, and there will be a harvest—both in their own lives and in the lives of their sheep. It’s easy to lose sight of the goodness of God while in the midst of daily tasks and weekly commitments, but God does everything to produce more of His goodness here on the earth. The work of a pastor is surely one of those avenues that brings glory to God.

Philippians 4:19 “And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”
I really like this verse, because the Lord is telling all of us, including pastors, that He will supply all of our needs. Financial and spiritual challenges are quite common in churches, and it is easy to get discouraged when God’s timing for provision is different than ours. However, in His infinite abundance, God will provide for our every need according to His riches in glory. It is impossible to even imagine what God’s riches in glory entails, but this verse makes it very clear that he will provide for his people.
I Timothy 5:18 “For the Scripture says, ‘You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,’ and, ‘The laborer deserves his wages.’”

Pastors labor continuously for the Kingdom of God, and they are deserving of their wages. Over the years, there has often been controversy surrounding a preacher’s pay, but in this verse the Lord clearly states that a laborer is worthy of his paycheck. An ox is a hard working animal, and this verse explains that it deserves to eat some of the fruit of its labor. Likewise, a pastor deserves to receive payment for his labor as well. Like a Father, God loves to bless His children, and He yearns for those children He has called to be pastors to thrive and succeed in their finances as much as anyone else. Not only are they providing a very real service for their local body of believers and community, they are also providing spiritual nourishment and encouragement with eternal consequences.
Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.”

In the book of Ephesians 4:11, the Lord explains that he is the one who has called us to be either apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers and shepherds or pastors in his Kingdom. So I feel that this verse in Hebrews is very encouraging, because the author is reminding the sheep that they should submit to their leaders in obedience and joy. God wants our leaders to enjoy their work, as this calling is very important to the body of Christ.CONCLUSION:

Pastors are such a blessing to the church and to the Kingdom of God, and we need to pray for them and encourage them at every opportunity. Their job may seem thankless and even overwhelming sometimes, so lifting them up with words of encouragement, a note, or a small gift will go a long way in their lives. I would like to challenge you to pray about how you can encourage your pastor today, as one small act of kindness will go a long way in enhancing his or her joy and stamina on behalf of the body of Christ.Written by Karla Hawkins

I feel blessed to be the pastor’s wife of a thriving church in northern Michigan and the mother of four amazing grown children. It is also very rewarding to be a Christian author, editor and translator for the Kingdom of God. Some of my favorite pastimes include supporting my children’s contemporary Christian band ONLY9AM, singing on the worship team at church, traveling, and connecting with family and friends via social media. When I am not working, I love spending time with my family and especially with my precious three-year-old grandson.
Heart touching to say the least but ...do you know why he is tired out? A pastor does not lead the flock...He points them to the Shepard.