Can we just focus on one point?
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Personally I'm with you on the title thing. When I was getting introduced to a pastor... the pastor would say "I'm Pastor so-and-so." Some times I would say for fun while shaking their hand.. "Great to meet you, I'm Pharmaceutical Rep Bruce"..it's funny to see the look on their face.
Here's the kicker - even though I don't agree with their titles - I am not going to dis-honor them and malign them because they go by a title. I am not their Lord and Master. My job is to honor them and pray for them - not bash and malign them even though this title thing is something I don't agree with.
Here's the kicker - even though I don't agree with their titles - I am not going to dis-honor them and malign them because they go by a title. I am not their Lord and Master. My job is to honor them and pray for them - not bash and malign them even though this title thing is something I don't agree with.
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“If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” 1 Tim 6:3-10
Yes there are pastors who are greedy and do not teach wholesome words and are in it for their own belly.
I believe a pastor should work as the word say's as an example. But the Lord knows who is true and who is not.
And yes it is hard to find a church with all the gifts working according to the word.
I was lucky and have been in churches as the bible teaches. With the Lord confirming his word.
But if someone is crying out to the Lord and is of a broken spirit and contrite heart, he will acknowlege that
wherever they are.
Jer3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding.
The Lord draws his people and he leads them where they can be fed properly.
He gives his people discernment
26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Yes there are pastors who are greedy and do not teach wholesome words and are in it for their own belly.
I believe a pastor should work as the word say's as an example. But the Lord knows who is true and who is not.
And yes it is hard to find a church with all the gifts working according to the word.
I was lucky and have been in churches as the bible teaches. With the Lord confirming his word.
But if someone is crying out to the Lord and is of a broken spirit and contrite heart, he will acknowlege that
wherever they are.
Jer3:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will lead you with knowledge and understanding.
The Lord draws his people and he leads them where they can be fed properly.
He gives his people discernment
26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
I'm also waiting for you to produce a response to my post to you.
Because you claim that the only reason they received material blessing is because they were "traveling preachers", but Scripture as I clearly show teaches differently. So while you're watching people do the Chubby Checker see if you can find time to respond to my post.
Because you claim that the only reason they received material blessing is because they were "traveling preachers", but Scripture as I clearly show teaches differently. So while you're watching people do the Chubby Checker see if you can find time to respond to my post.
No you did not yet, the post I quoted you mentioned one chapter only, acts 20, please stop doing this, I am not interested now in reading four chapters to look for my pastor, you send people on wild goose chases instead of giving the pertinent verse. Do you really not know how to copy and paste? It is a basic computer skill. Perhaps it is time you learned. If you spent less time lying and complaining to us, you would have more time on your hands to respond in a more appropriate fashion.
Cee thee preaching a different gospel , it is referring to 1 timothy 6:10 & 2 Timothy 4:3
Brother Cee you have miss read what is posted - buying house for self - there is no problem buying a home and opening your home up for brethren in Christ preaching the Good news as paul did to everyone that came to see him, for the poor fellow that needs a place to stay, that is in need. That is what the Body of Christ does thinking of others not self
The problem lies in thinking on self than others.
Hope that clears it up Shalom
Brother Cee you have miss read what is posted - buying house for self - there is no problem buying a home and opening your home up for brethren in Christ preaching the Good news as paul did to everyone that came to see him, for the poor fellow that needs a place to stay, that is in need. That is what the Body of Christ does thinking of others not self
The problem lies in thinking on self than others.
Hope that clears it up Shalom
So now we are finally down with the truth of the matter. You guys have a spirit of rebellion. You Ask for scripture, i give it. Then yon dance around it sayind your not going to read all that. Or you turn the verses completely on their head stating insanity such as 'well that doesn't mean that for us or some other gobbledegook non sense then accuse me of non sense.
Wow. It's utterly stunning what I'm hearing out of your mouths. Unbearable. Black is white, white is black, up is down, down is up, left is right, right is left. Behold: The First Church of the Opposites.
Isaiah speaks well of you. Ch. 5, vs. 20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. That are wise in their own eyes.
The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.
Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.
I see even clearer now how obstinacy and pride has over taken christendom. It's reached a flash point. I was persecuted by the 'church' so called, years ago not understanding why. Today i get it. I'm a slow learner. I always had hope the body of Christ would recover her heritage and set things in order. I no longer have that hope. The best i can hope for is for a few to wake up from this monster called 'church' and come out from among them and be seperate and touch not the unclean thing.
So you order me to 'show us the scripture', then you cry 'im not gonna read all that', or 'thats not what it means'.
Wow! You are not opposing me, you are opposing the One who has sent me. And you oppose yourselves. 2Tim. 2:25
I'll start other threads on this. They'll be for the tender hearted and the ones that sense something is horribly wrong with this 'thing' falsely called church.
Wow. It's utterly stunning what I'm hearing out of your mouths. Unbearable. Black is white, white is black, up is down, down is up, left is right, right is left. Behold: The First Church of the Opposites.
Isaiah speaks well of you. Ch. 5, vs. 20: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. That are wise in their own eyes.
The one world church and government will have no problem swallowing up organized religion and it's adherents. The antichrist will struggle little with the masses convincing them he is the christ.
Many denoms already bowing to the pope, perversion, and islam. Google it. Your favorite preachers sunk in the abyss of satanic delusion and corruption.
I see even clearer now how obstinacy and pride has over taken christendom. It's reached a flash point. I was persecuted by the 'church' so called, years ago not understanding why. Today i get it. I'm a slow learner. I always had hope the body of Christ would recover her heritage and set things in order. I no longer have that hope. The best i can hope for is for a few to wake up from this monster called 'church' and come out from among them and be seperate and touch not the unclean thing.
So you order me to 'show us the scripture', then you cry 'im not gonna read all that', or 'thats not what it means'.
Wow! You are not opposing me, you are opposing the One who has sent me. And you oppose yourselves. 2Tim. 2:25
I'll start other threads on this. They'll be for the tender hearted and the ones that sense something is horribly wrong with this 'thing' falsely called church.
M
Yet I'm genuinely sorry you have been hurt by the churches you have been to
in the past. You seem to be a genuine decent person.
It hurts because it's not just about relationships but because of the
spiritual aspect involved.
Maybe for you it is right to seek out a different way of doing church and I hope
you can find a church in which you can feel settled and feel comfortable. I have
seen others in the US say they are having difficulties finding a church they can
settle in and end up in church house groups. I don't know why that is or how common
this is in the US. But maybe you could consider setting up a house church.
You have to understand though that for others they are at peace and find a
relationship with God (which is the most important thing) and with others in a
more traditional set up. If they find God, have room to grow as a Christian and
as a person etc then that is right for them.
There is no merit in debating this subject. It is up to each person to decide what is
right for them in deciding what type of church set up to attend.
Far more important is whether we are growing as Christians and if the church set up
hinders or helps with that.
in the past. You seem to be a genuine decent person.
It hurts because it's not just about relationships but because of the
spiritual aspect involved.
Maybe for you it is right to seek out a different way of doing church and I hope
you can find a church in which you can feel settled and feel comfortable. I have
seen others in the US say they are having difficulties finding a church they can
settle in and end up in church house groups. I don't know why that is or how common
this is in the US. But maybe you could consider setting up a house church.
You have to understand though that for others they are at peace and find a
relationship with God (which is the most important thing) and with others in a
more traditional set up. If they find God, have room to grow as a Christian and
as a person etc then that is right for them.
There is no merit in debating this subject. It is up to each person to decide what is
right for them in deciding what type of church set up to attend.
Far more important is whether we are growing as Christians and if the church set up
hinders or helps with that.
I absolutely agree with you, and have been mentioning this matter for years to others. Paul mentioned several times not only for himself, but the the Apostles that they worked day and night so that they would not make themselves nor the Gospel of Christ chargeable to any. One asked me, What about the collection? We see plainly in Acts that the collection was meant only and exclusively to distribute to every one according as they have need, and nothing more. As for me the representative of Christ Jesus should not make himself chargeable nor the Gospel chargeable to any, but to deliver Christ freely, as we ourselves have receive Him freely without charge! I also mentioned that we ought to consider Judas, who said, "How much will you give me, and I will deliver Him to you!"
Anything that contradicts your opinion is "utterly stunning" to you.
If one is to trace the history of the church polity back one would find that it is modeled on the primary family structure. The Man of the home is to be the spiritual leader and teacher of the word of God to his family. One leader not many leaders. Judaism follows this model with one High Priest and one alone. Christ is the High Priest for the modern church model but in the family and in the assembly there is one leader.
It really does not matter which scriptures you are given and this is demonstrated in your history you will not receive them except you interpret them to suit your predetermined opinion.
From Genesis through the entire bible we see the straight forward organization of Gods church. The head of the home is the spiritual leader. There is one spiritual leader in the assembly. There is one God in heaven.
Complain all you want about corruption in the church but those given the responsibility will be held to account by God for what they do or do not. Those who opposed Moses met with Gods judgment and condemnation. Moses was Gods chosen singular leader. David was Gods chosen singular leader. Abraham was Gods chosen singular leader. We all know what happened to Lot when he parted ways with Abraham.
Perhaps you can submit a reality show concept to Hollywood and call it preaching for the stars. You can all sit around in a circle and vie for the "most spiritual" title in the group. You can extol all the virtues you see in yourself and minimize the others in the group.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If one is to trace the history of the church polity back one would find that it is modeled on the primary family structure. The Man of the home is to be the spiritual leader and teacher of the word of God to his family. One leader not many leaders. Judaism follows this model with one High Priest and one alone. Christ is the High Priest for the modern church model but in the family and in the assembly there is one leader.
It really does not matter which scriptures you are given and this is demonstrated in your history you will not receive them except you interpret them to suit your predetermined opinion.
From Genesis through the entire bible we see the straight forward organization of Gods church. The head of the home is the spiritual leader. There is one spiritual leader in the assembly. There is one God in heaven.
Complain all you want about corruption in the church but those given the responsibility will be held to account by God for what they do or do not. Those who opposed Moses met with Gods judgment and condemnation. Moses was Gods chosen singular leader. David was Gods chosen singular leader. Abraham was Gods chosen singular leader. We all know what happened to Lot when he parted ways with Abraham.
Perhaps you can submit a reality show concept to Hollywood and call it preaching for the stars. You can all sit around in a circle and vie for the "most spiritual" title in the group. You can extol all the virtues you see in yourself and minimize the others in the group.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yet, would you be for one of these churches if the pastor wasn't paid for preaching, but for the work he does such as counseling, the pastor doesn't push tithing and leaves that to the Holy Spirit, the pastor doesn't set himself up above everyone, He joins in worshiping and studying God and His word with the church, He doesn't want people calling him by a title, and the money that comes in from those who feel led to give goes to missionaries and the church building to keep it open as a place for groups to study the Bible and Praise God? When I say the pastor, I do no just mean 1.....
B
This was written by a pastors wife, I'm just a copy and paster looking at both sides of the conversation about pastors.
Pastors have a very special calling on their lives, and they need to be appreciated, cherished and encouraged as much as possible. I read an article recently that stated that many pastors are retiring or changing careers these days, because it is such a challenging and difficult job. My husband is a pastor, so I truly know and understand the challenges that he faces on a regular basis. I know the crazy schedule that he keeps and the tireless hours he works on behalf of our church family. Jesus said that he came that we might have an abundant life (John 10:10), and I know that this is true for pastors as well. So here are my 7 top Bible verses to encourage my husband and all pastors.
Philippians 4:19 “And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”I really like this verse, because the Lord is telling all of us, including pastors, that He will supply all of our needs. Financial and spiritual challenges are quite common in churches, and it is easy to get discouraged when God’s timing for provision is different than ours. However, in His infinite abundance, God will provide for our every need according to His riches in glory. It is impossible to even imagine what God’s riches in glory entails, but this verse makes it very clear that he will provide for his people.
Pastors are such a blessing to the church and to the Kingdom of God, and we need to pray for them and encourage them at every opportunity. Their job may seem thankless and even overwhelming sometimes, so lifting them up with words of encouragement, a note, or a small gift will go a long way in their lives. I would like to challenge you to pray about how you can encourage your pastor today, as one small act of kindness will go a long way in enhancing his or her joy and stamina on behalf of the body of Christ.Written by Karla Hawkins
I feel blessed to be the pastor’s wife of a thriving church in northern Michigan and the mother of four amazing grown children. It is also very rewarding to be a Christian author, editor and translator for the Kingdom of God. Some of my favorite pastimes include supporting my children’s contemporary Christian band ONLY9AM, singing on the worship team at church, traveling, and connecting with family and friends via social media. When I am not working, I love spending time with my family and especially with my precious three-year-old grandson.
Pastors have a very special calling on their lives, and they need to be appreciated, cherished and encouraged as much as possible. I read an article recently that stated that many pastors are retiring or changing careers these days, because it is such a challenging and difficult job. My husband is a pastor, so I truly know and understand the challenges that he faces on a regular basis. I know the crazy schedule that he keeps and the tireless hours he works on behalf of our church family. Jesus said that he came that we might have an abundant life (John 10:10), and I know that this is true for pastors as well. So here are my 7 top Bible verses to encourage my husband and all pastors.
Isaiah 40:31 “…but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles; they shall run and not be weary; they shall walk and not faint.”
God is the one who has called each one of us with a special purpose and career, and pastors are no exception. I chose this verse to encourage pastors, because I believe that it is important for our shepherds to know that God has their back. He knows the sacrifices that they make selflessly for the body of Christ, and so it is the Lord who will renew their strength like the eagles. And even though they work hard, and run ahead leading the church, with God’s help they will not grow weary and will not faint.
Jeremiah 3:15 “And I will give you shepherds after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.”
This is one of my top seven verses to encourage pastors, because the Lord is saying that it is He that is raising up and providing shepherds after his own heart. God is the one who has blessed and called pastors with the talents, skills, and heart that the Lord wants for his people. This verse also states that God is the one who gives shepherds and leaders the “food” for the sheep—in other words, He gives pastors the knowledge and understanding that they need to feed the sheep.
1 Corinthians 15:58 “Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.”
I believe that pastors get discouraged sometimes when things are tough or their sheep are struggling with various trials, so it is important for them to remember that they are working for the Lord. It is also helpful to focus on the fact that since their labor is for God, they do not work in vain. Although good seed is being planted, it can take time for the seeds to grow and thrive. It’s important for pastors to hold fast to the hope they have in the Lord, knowing that in Him, good will win out in the end. Disappointments and challenges will come, but the Lord encourages all of us, including pastors, to be steadfast and immovable no matter what.
Galatians 6:9 “And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.”
This is a great verse to use in encouraging pastors, because it reminds them that their work is for a greater and eternal purpose. The Lord will give a harvest if they do not give up. Colossians 3:23-24 goes along with this verse, as the apostle Paul states, “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.” In other words, God will reward preachers and shepherds for their work, and there will be a harvest—both in their own lives and in the lives of their sheep. It’s easy to lose sight of the goodness of God while in the midst of daily tasks and weekly commitments, but God does everything to produce more of His goodness here on the earth. The work of a pastor is surely one of those avenues that brings glory to God.
Philippians 4:19 “And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.”I really like this verse, because the Lord is telling all of us, including pastors, that He will supply all of our needs. Financial and spiritual challenges are quite common in churches, and it is easy to get discouraged when God’s timing for provision is different than ours. However, in His infinite abundance, God will provide for our every need according to His riches in glory. It is impossible to even imagine what God’s riches in glory entails, but this verse makes it very clear that he will provide for his people.
I Timothy 5:18 “For the Scripture says, ‘You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,’ and, ‘The laborer deserves his wages.’”
Pastors labor continuously for the Kingdom of God, and they are deserving of their wages. Over the years, there has often been controversy surrounding a preacher’s pay, but in this verse the Lord clearly states that a laborer is worthy of his paycheck. An ox is a hard working animal, and this verse explains that it deserves to eat some of the fruit of its labor. Likewise, a pastor deserves to receive payment for his labor as well. Like a Father, God loves to bless His children, and He yearns for those children He has called to be pastors to thrive and succeed in their finances as much as anyone else. Not only are they providing a very real service for their local body of believers and community, they are also providing spiritual nourishment and encouragement with eternal consequences.
Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.”
In the book of Ephesians 4:11, the Lord explains that he is the one who has called us to be either apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers and shepherds or pastors in his Kingdom. So I feel that this verse in Hebrews is very encouraging, because the author is reminding the sheep that they should submit to their leaders in obedience and joy. God wants our leaders to enjoy their work, as this calling is very important to the body of Christ.CONCLUSION:
Pastors are such a blessing to the church and to the Kingdom of God, and we need to pray for them and encourage them at every opportunity. Their job may seem thankless and even overwhelming sometimes, so lifting them up with words of encouragement, a note, or a small gift will go a long way in their lives. I would like to challenge you to pray about how you can encourage your pastor today, as one small act of kindness will go a long way in enhancing his or her joy and stamina on behalf of the body of Christ.Written by Karla Hawkins
I feel blessed to be the pastor’s wife of a thriving church in northern Michigan and the mother of four amazing grown children. It is also very rewarding to be a Christian author, editor and translator for the Kingdom of God. Some of my favorite pastimes include supporting my children’s contemporary Christian band ONLY9AM, singing on the worship team at church, traveling, and connecting with family and friends via social media. When I am not working, I love spending time with my family and especially with my precious three-year-old grandson.
He won't. He's been asked in the past and he does "the little sidestep" thing. He once said something about meeting with two or three others, but that's all I've ever seen on it.
I've asked him 4 times in the past few months why he doesn't start his own fellowship and do it the way he thinks it should be done... I have come to the conclusion that he pictures himself as the lone voice, crying in the wilderness, and that he's comfortable in his martyrdom.
Finding a body of believers, or STARTING a body of believers would take that away from him. I pray that he will come back to the fellowship, and use his God-given talents to edify others.
I've asked him 4 times in the past few months why he doesn't start his own fellowship and do it the way he thinks it should be done... I have come to the conclusion that he pictures himself as the lone voice, crying in the wilderness, and that he's comfortable in his martyrdom.
Finding a body of believers, or STARTING a body of believers would take that away from him. I pray that he will come back to the fellowship, and use his God-given talents to edify others.
Who would want a man like this in the assembly? You do not invite strife into the body of Christ.
I suspect he is as odious in person as he is online. He has admitted in the past that even his family want nothing to do with him save his loyal wife.
This poor man has never attained a position of leadership in a church and has turned very bitter toward those who have.
This is a very sad situation.
Those who reject the goodness of God will be given over to their desires.
Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I suspect he is as odious in person as he is online. He has admitted in the past that even his family want nothing to do with him save his loyal wife.
This poor man has never attained a position of leadership in a church and has turned very bitter toward those who have.
This is a very sad situation.
Those who reject the goodness of God will be given over to their desires.
Romans 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am listening. I hear your complaint.
Many here have given you other options, which you outright refuse.
That is not true. There are many functions which need to be filled in ministry. If all the churches in your area have only one person filling all needed functions, there is something wrong. Go to a church in your area and offer to help wherever there is need. I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities (plural) for you to minister according to the gifts of God's grace which you have received.
You refuse to participate in any ministry which does not include you standing at the pulpit to teach. You are not contributing what you have been gifted with in order to bless other members of the body of Christ. You are the one who is not following instruction as shown in Rom 12, 1 Cor 12-14, and Eph 4.
Many here have given you other options, which you outright refuse.
That is not true. There are many functions which need to be filled in ministry. If all the churches in your area have only one person filling all needed functions, there is something wrong. Go to a church in your area and offer to help wherever there is need. I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities (plural) for you to minister according to the gifts of God's grace which you have received.
You refuse to participate in any ministry which does not include you standing at the pulpit to teach. You are not contributing what you have been gifted with in order to bless other members of the body of Christ. You are the one who is not following instruction as shown in Rom 12, 1 Cor 12-14, and Eph 4.