Can we just focus on one point?
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Paul was definitely teaching and probably proclaiming things of the kingdom at the same time in Acts 20.
Acts 20:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. ( You should be calling Paul out of order for not letting you speak what you wanted to say if you were there then...selah )
Paul prolonged his message - sounds like he was doing all the talking and rightly so too because he was teaching them.
As far as 1 Cor 12 - there is a time for each one ministering to others - as I have said to you before it's not either/or - it's the ability to do both - have someone teach and also have others minister to each other. I have been to churches where there was time given for this as well as having a main teaching.
We can do minister to others anytime we meet. You can do that at home with a few friends there too - it doesn't have to be in every service and every time people meet.
Different services have different purposes as led by the Spirit of God.
Romans 12 = simply Paul exhorting the people to exercise their gift to the rest of the body of Christ - nothing that says to only do it in an assembly - that's your "twisting". How in an assembly are they supposed to exercise their "hospitality" to each other or their mercy? ( Romans 12:13 )
See, how you have distorted what Paul was really saying here to make it try to make it line up with your dogmatic stance on every time Christians meet - you need to be able to do what you want?
Eph 4 - is simply saying the same thing as Romans 12 - we need every part functioning in what is their part in the body of Christ. Nothing to do with your man-made doctrine that everyone needs to do what they want in every assembly meeting. They can do their "part" in all kinds of different situations in every instance in living.
Acts 20:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. ( You should be calling Paul out of order for not letting you speak what you wanted to say if you were there then...selah )
Paul prolonged his message - sounds like he was doing all the talking and rightly so too because he was teaching them.
As far as 1 Cor 12 - there is a time for each one ministering to others - as I have said to you before it's not either/or - it's the ability to do both - have someone teach and also have others minister to each other. I have been to churches where there was time given for this as well as having a main teaching.
We can do minister to others anytime we meet. You can do that at home with a few friends there too - it doesn't have to be in every service and every time people meet.
Different services have different purposes as led by the Spirit of God.
Romans 12 = simply Paul exhorting the people to exercise their gift to the rest of the body of Christ - nothing that says to only do it in an assembly - that's your "twisting". How in an assembly are they supposed to exercise their "hospitality" to each other or their mercy? ( Romans 12:13 )
See, how you have distorted what Paul was really saying here to make it try to make it line up with your dogmatic stance on every time Christians meet - you need to be able to do what you want?
Eph 4 - is simply saying the same thing as Romans 12 - we need every part functioning in what is their part in the body of Christ. Nothing to do with your man-made doctrine that everyone needs to do what they want in every assembly meeting. They can do their "part" in all kinds of different situations in every instance in living.
P
Sad but true, but I do know of unbelievers going to church hearing that still small voice. It happens. I see my pastor struggle at the pulpit sometimes because of deaf ears. I know he prays and prays and each week delivers the message the Lord told him to. But the world has a strong grip on some of the saints. His love for the fold is undeniable. And his sincerity is seen on his worn out knees.
You missed the whole point. You believe that the head pastor deserves his paycheck right? So in this incident, some were appointed to the needs of the folks and some to the ministry of the word. Do you mean to tell me that these guys that were to wait on tables were happy about losing their pay? I mean only the 'pastor' deserves a check with stipends and full benefits, yet you don't hear one word of complaint out of these other guys.
Why do you suppose? Because those that gave themselves over exclusively to the word, did not negotiate for a salary. Unheard of. In the first century anyway.
Why do you suppose? Because those that gave themselves over exclusively to the word, did not negotiate for a salary. Unheard of. In the first century anyway.
Your condemnation of all leaders in the body of Christ is really contemptible.
No leader that cared for their flock would allow people in to talk with the people that purposefully disparaged the Lord's leaders in the body of Christ.
You are projecting your bias in the scriptures ( by leaving out all the other scriptures that say to support leaders including the scriptures that showed others suppose the Lord and the disciples with their possessions - ( I suppose Jesus is a hireling now too according to your definition? ) and trying to make isolated cases to try to prove your contempt for leaders in the body of Christ.
This is the reason why so many are against your contempt for pastors and other leaders.
No leader that cared for their flock would allow people in to talk with the people that purposefully disparaged the Lord's leaders in the body of Christ.
You are projecting your bias in the scriptures ( by leaving out all the other scriptures that say to support leaders including the scriptures that showed others suppose the Lord and the disciples with their possessions - ( I suppose Jesus is a hireling now too according to your definition? ) and trying to make isolated cases to try to prove your contempt for leaders in the body of Christ.
This is the reason why so many are against your contempt for pastors and other leaders.
Not itenerent.
3This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[SUP]a[/SUP] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
Peter had this right. And Peter had a wife and was stationed in Jerusalem. What is the right? The right to ask for substance materially in return for substance spiritually. Peter was NOT an itenerent. It was not because Paul traveled that he had the right, but because of the spiritual substance he gave. This is the essence of this entire chapter. Which is why Paul quotes the OT about the Ox not being Muzzled.
You my friend are muzzling the oxes with your interpretation. Paul had the right to not work and he gave it up out of his free choice. This is not a law, but this was his heart.
3This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[SUP]a[/SUP] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?
8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?
Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.
Peter had this right. And Peter had a wife and was stationed in Jerusalem. What is the right? The right to ask for substance materially in return for substance spiritually. Peter was NOT an itenerent. It was not because Paul traveled that he had the right, but because of the spiritual substance he gave. This is the essence of this entire chapter. Which is why Paul quotes the OT about the Ox not being Muzzled.
You my friend are muzzling the oxes with your interpretation. Paul had the right to not work and he gave it up out of his free choice. This is not a law, but this was his heart.
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For the worker is worthy of his support , does not mean buy a house for yourself, a 2016 sport car with those offerings, it does not mean go on vacations with those offerings. It does not mean to gather a big percentage of those offerings for yourself, over the rest of the body of Christ.
Return to Matthew 23 and have understanding what this For the worker is worthy of his support means.
The Twelve Disciples; Instructions for Service
1Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. 2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him. 5These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of theGentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7“And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. 9“Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts,10or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support. 11“And whatever city or village you enter, inquire who is worthy in it, and stay at his house until you leave that city. 12“As you enter the house, give it your greeting. 13“If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
But these instruction was before Jesus went to the cross, yeah uh huh i notice that, then why Paul & John and many other in Christ, travel and in many places they were receive in people homes and so fourth, for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The offerings are for the body of Christ to be used for the Gospel and helping those that are poor, the widow and the fatherless,
It is all about the Gospel not what you can acquire for self in this life.
If your living for what you can acquire in this world for self , then the Love of the Father is not in you...
freely you are given freely give
Shalom
Return to Matthew 23 and have understanding what this For the worker is worthy of his support means.
The Twelve Disciples; Instructions for Service
1Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. 2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him. 5These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of theGentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7“And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8“Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. 9“Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts,10or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support. 11“And whatever city or village you enter, inquire who is worthy in it, and stay at his house until you leave that city. 12“As you enter the house, give it your greeting. 13“If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
But these instruction was before Jesus went to the cross, yeah uh huh i notice that, then why Paul & John and many other in Christ, travel and in many places they were receive in people homes and so fourth, for the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The offerings are for the body of Christ to be used for the Gospel and helping those that are poor, the widow and the fatherless,
It is all about the Gospel not what you can acquire for self in this life.
If your living for what you can acquire in this world for self , then the Love of the Father is not in you...
freely you are given freely give
Shalom
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Let us discuss what this means - is it too much if we reap material things from you?
what are these material things that he is speaking upon.
is it food water , cloth , rent a house for the preaching of the Gospel. - Acts 28:30
or is it , buy a house, buy a plane, buy a island for self and preach about a diffrent gospel.- could not find it in the Holy Scriptures.
what do those material things really mean hmmm...
Shalom
what are these material things that he is speaking upon.
is it food water , cloth , rent a house for the preaching of the Gospel. - Acts 28:30
or is it , buy a house, buy a plane, buy a island for self and preach about a diffrent gospel.- could not find it in the Holy Scriptures.
what do those material things really mean hmmm...
Shalom
You guys accuse me of twisting the word. I must say that i have not seen this much twisting you guys are doing since Chubby Checker hit the American Bandstand.
And you still have not produced that mysterious critter the Executive Pastor in the confines of the NT. I got it. I got it. He's probably away on another vacation. Check the missions work you see!
Gotta take a break you each only have to write one post at a time. I have to write about 15.
And you still have not produced that mysterious critter the Executive Pastor in the confines of the NT. I got it. I got it. He's probably away on another vacation. Check the missions work you see!
Gotta take a break you each only have to write one post at a time. I have to write about 15.
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