Capital Punishment

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nathan3

Guest
#21
I'm basically undecided. But I do have a question, If God is for the death penalty, then why didn't God kill Cain or have him killed? Instead God placed a mark on him and a curse for anyone who killed him?
good question, now that you noted the difference . you should find out who cain was. its a deeper study into the parable of the tares. And what God's purpose was for Cain. but this is off topic .
 
Oct 12, 2012
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#22
Bookends. God could not kill Cain for the same reason that He could not just destroy Satan.
But i dare not tell you why!?
But. Do you remember what Jesus said, to that evil and perverse generation?
...upon you will come all the sins of Israel from the blood of righteous Able......

This was the sin of Cain, right?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#23
What is your stance on death penalty in courts? I know it is a topic of great discussion amongst Christians, with dissent on both sides (pro & against). But I want to know what is your stance on the death penalty? Do you believe Christians should be against or for Capital Punishment in court? Also, have you ever had or known anybody who has experience a murder trial, like being a juror, lawyer, or judge?

Just being curious.
My take on capital punishment is as follows. Now days we can use guns to murder. When the Ten Commandments say"though shalt not kill" the proper word in oridginal Hebrew translates as murder. There's a big difference. Capital punishment deteriorates murder when the perpetrator knows what's coming to them.

Numbers 35:16-34 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But if the slayer shall at any time come without the border of the city of his refuge, whither he was fled;
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Because he should have remained in the city of his refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the slayer shall return into the land of his possession.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]So these things shall be for a statute of judgment unto you throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to die.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall take no satisfaction for him that is fled to the city of his refuge, that he should come again to dwell in the land, until the death of the priest.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#24
Bookends. God could not kill Cain for the same reason that He could not just destroy Satan.
But i dare not tell you why!?
But. Do you remember what Jesus said, to that evil and perverse generation?
...upon you will come all the sins of Israel from the blood of righteous Able......

This was the sin of Cain, right?
Yes, but Jesus also lamented over that generation.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#25
I do not know. The fact that he did not kill Can in no way subtracts from the fact that the mandate of death for the manslayer was decreed by God. A similar question could also be asked with regard to David. David was guilty under the law and the prescribed penalty for his having killed Uriah was death. Why did God not have him killed?
Maybe we should take a closer look at that mandate, which I will do, but later.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
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#27
Do you mean the book of hebrews or the actual Hebrew language? Because I am not going to study the hebrew Language as I have no need to. It is one of the Ten commandments, it says clearly for us not to kill. AS I said before the death Penalty is just a way for people to justly kill even though there is nothing just about it

You are correct, Blain, you don't need to know Hebrew. But you do need to keep reading to get the whole picture.


"And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 24:17

God didn't create for us a paradox that would cause the entire Hebrew race to be wiped out. The commandment was not to murder. Remember, God told Saul to kill a certain evil city also. -JIM
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#28
What is your stance on death penalty in courts? I know it is a topic of great discussion amongst Christians, with dissent on both sides (pro & against). But I want to know what is your stance on the death penalty? Do you believe Christians should be against or for Capital Punishment in court? Also, have you ever had or known anybody who has experience a murder trial, like being a juror, lawyer, or judge?

Just being curious.
I'm a huge fan of capitol punishment. However, I'm not a huge fan of our justice system as it applies to the court of appeals and lack of quick execution of sentencing. Do I want every person to have a chance, if they are innocent, to appeal? yes
In the American justice system today, though, criminals cost more money doing appeal after appeal and months waiting for their sentence to be carried out than if we just hung them the week after sentencing. This may seem calloused to some, but at least the person would be getting a week instead of the 5 minutes it took to drag someone to the street to be stoned in Bible times.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#29
First off God says thou shalt not Kill(Period) I refuse to accept that God says to Kill in any way so If I am to be condemned for doing exactly What the Lord says so be it.
OK, then what about this...

Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Sounds pretty straightforward and direct to me.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#30
If you refuse to study the Hebrew language at all, then you are refusing to understand the bible. You are not understanding what the words are saying, because the language represents a different way of thinking and you need to understand that way of thinking to understand what the translation means. You don't need to learn the language, but if you look on the net there are lots of sites that explain to you.

Your quoting "you shall not kill" is a commandment given to you personally. We are also to protect and care for each other. God feels that when we purposely let killers loose in our society it is killing. You need to read deeper in scripture for God principles. God says it is not the letter of the law we are to go by but use the law of love as a measuring stick for law.

God does not tell us to kill murderers personally, we are to see that government gives justice to murderers. We are to be absolutely sure they are murderers, circumstantial evidence will not do. If someone falsely accuses, that person is a murderer, and subject to this punishment.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#31
I do not know. The fact that he did not kill Can in no way subtracts from the fact that the mandate of death for the manslayer was decreed by God. A similar question could also be asked with regard to David. David was guilty under the law and the prescribed penalty for his having killed Uriah was death. Why did God not have him killed?
I just want to make I'm not mistaken, are you suggesting that the passage in Genesis 9 the mandate?
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
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#32
I support capital punishment. Read the 13th chapter of Romans
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#33
A Buddhist friend and I were discussing capitol punishment one time. He made the point that if one were to use capitol punishment as punishment for murder, should all the mothers and abortionists who take the life of an innocent baby be punished in like fashion? Obviously abortion is a sensitive issue in any forum... so I'm not trying to open a can of worms or a rabbit trail ride. If the whole basis for not putting to death all persons killing their fellow man is because abortion is permitted by law, then isn't that putting too much power into the hands of man? Either God's moral law is followed or it isn't.
What about murders committed by persons supposedly mentally ill. There was a case he cited of a woman who brutally murdered several people, but they did not put her to death because she was mentally ill. What to say about a system that allows exception after exception?
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#34
nice topic. If the government puts that punishment as a governing law, yea sure God is still sovereign. so all what government did are under God's approving to be happened. If God is going to spare his/her life, though, He will do it. I saw some Christians' testimony from the Middle East escaping death penalty because: the 1st man was an egyptian, because of leaving islam and second one is a Palestinian pastor for sharing the Gospel to local muslims. God still wanted them to do more for Him, so He saved them both. I believe there are more similar stories like this.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#35
OT Law lists the following as reasons for taking the life of an offender, not just murder, most of which are not presently enforced in many countries:
Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman)
Lying about virginity. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Leviticus 21:9)
Rape of a virgin who is engaged. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)
Men practicing bestiality. (Leviticus 20:15)
Women practicing bestiality (Leviticus 20:16) [SUP][4][/SUP]
Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die) (Leviticus 20:20)
Having sex with your daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 20:30)
Incest. (Leviticus 20:17)
(for men): Sex with a man in the same manner as sex with women. (Leviticus 18:22) Marrying a woman and her daughter. (Leviticus 20:14)
Worshiping idols (Exodus 22:20, Leviticus 20:1-5, Deuteronomy 17:2-7).
Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14-16,23).
Breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14, Numbers 15:32-36).
Practicing magic (Exodus 22:18).
Being a medium or spiritualist. (Stoning) (Leviticus 20:27).
Trying to convert people to another religion. (Deuteronomy 13:1-11, Deuteronomy 18:20).
Apostasy - If most people in a town come to believe in a different god. (Kill everybody, including animals, and burn the town.) (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)[SUP][6][/SUP]
Giving one of your descendants to human sacrifice. (Leviticus 20:2)
Non-priests going near the tabernacle when it is being moved. (Numbers 1:51) Being a false prophet. (Deuteronomy 13:5, Deuteronomy 18:20, Zechariah 13:2-3)
Striking your parents (Exodus 21:15).
Cursing your parents (Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9). Being a stubborn and rebellious son. And being a profligate and a drunkard. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Murder. (Genesis 9:6, Exodus 21:12, Numbers 35:16-21)
Kidnapping and selling a man. This is really a law against making an Israelite a slave against his will, as other laws happily allow the "stealing of men" to make slaves. (Exodus 21:16).
Perjury (in certain cases) (Deuteronomy 19:15-21).
Ignoring the verdict of a judge or a priest (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).

Not penning up a known dangerous bull. (Exodus 21:29)
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Personally and as an officer, I do not support our death penalty laws as written because:

1. Scripture requires actual witnesses in many cases, not just circumstantial evidence, as can happen in my country;
2. I have personally witnessed that not all people receive due process under our present laws in my country; and
3. If I would not be willing to execute someone myself, I feel it would be cowardly of me to ask someone else to do it, whether it is part of their job or not.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#36
Jullianna

I'm sorry I can't not read over your post without taking a closer look at what you allowed posted next to each scripture..

Wikipedia is not a good place to learn about the Bible. its just Not, and we need to be careful with where we get our information from.

I'm am working on a post to clarify some to some degree, all the scripture you mistakenly misquoted there.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#37
Jullianna
I am just saying, we maybe should be more diligent in seeking out what God is telling us from His words. . I'm posting these to show at better look at those scripture. But I just wish there was more attention to detail . Nothing against you, I just wanted more detail.
That was my gripe.because confusion is rampant in these last days.

Here is some more details about some of the scripture you posted. I will get to some more of them tomorrow:

>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...verses-leviticus-deuteronomy.html#post1125333
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#38
I am just saying, we maybe should be more diligent in seeking out what God is telling us from His words. . I'm posting these to show at better look at those scripture. But I just wish there was more attention to detail . Nothing against you, I just wanted more detail.
That was my gripe.because confusion is rampant in these last days.

Here is some more details about some of the scripture you posted. I will get to some more of them tomorrow:

>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...verses-leviticus-deuteronomy.html#post1125333

Dido! See post #23
 
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Kerry

Guest
#39
I thought most of y'all were law keepers and now you want to show mercy and grace. The law states that if a man kill a man the law requires his life. Unless he flee to a city of refuge. Can you see the mercy in that. God even said I abhor your sacrifice and feast for I desire mercy.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#40
Since the purpose of posting the list was not to study or discuss the offenses line by line, but merely to show that murder was not the only offense punishable by death in scripture, I was and am satisfied with having used it on my 25 minute lunch. :) Posting a wall of scripture seemed like overkill at the time (and I'm not even sure the server will allow me to post all of this), but out of respect to you I have gone ahead and copied/pasted the majority of the offenses listed above in context. God bless! :)


Leviticus 20
20 The Lord said to Moses, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. [SUP]4 [/SUP]If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, [SUP]5 [/SUP]I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the Lord your God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“‘If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They are to be publicly removed from their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]“‘Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“‘If a man has sexual relations with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. [SUP]23 [/SUP]You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. [SUP]24 [/SUP]But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has set you apart from the nations.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“‘You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those that I have set apart as unclean for you. [SUP]26 [/SUP]You are to be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’”

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Deuteronomy 22
[SUP]13 [/SUP]If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her [SUP]14 [/SUP]and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” [SUP]15 [/SUP]then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and the elders shall take the man and punish him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They shall fine him a hundred shekels[SUP][b][/SUP] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, [SUP]21 [/SUP]she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, [SUP]24 [/SUP]you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, [SUP]27 [/SUP]for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, [SUP]29 [/SUP]he shall pay her father fifty shekels[SUP][c][/SUP] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]A man is not to marry his father’s wife; he must not dishonor his father’s bed.[SUP][d]

[/SUP]-------------------------------------
Exodus 21

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death. [SUP]13 [/SUP]However, if it is not done intentionally, but God lets it happen, they are to flee to a place I will designate. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But if anyone schemes and kills someone deliberately, that person is to be taken from my altar and put to death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Anyone who attacks[SUP][c][/SUP] their father or mother is to be put to death.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]“If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[SUP][d][/SUP] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, [SUP]19 [/SUP]the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, [SUP]21 [/SUP]but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[SUP][e][/SUP] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, [SUP]24 [/SUP]eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, [SUP]25 [/SUP]burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]“If a bull gores a man or woman to death, the bull is to be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull is to be stoned and its owner also is to be put to death.