Capital Punishment

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nathan3

Guest
#41
I thought most of y'all were law keepers and now you want to show mercy and grace. The law states that if a man kill a man the law requires his life. Unless he flee to a city of refuge. Can you see the mercy in that. God even said I abhor your sacrifice and feast for I desire mercy.
He can go to one of those cities, if , it was not premeditated criminal homicide, but an accident, or some other reason where he had room according to the law. Those cities, where for say example, a man accidentally cased some ones death, he could go to these cities, to seek some safety from the family of member they lost by his hand, accidentally. If they where killed, when it was a accident, then it would have been bad.

If they went to these cities when they where guilty of murder, then they were to be taken out of those cities and executed for their crime.

Deuteronomy 19:
2 Thou shalt separate three cities for thee in the midst of thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.
3 Thou shalt prepare thee a way, and divide the coasts of thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee to inherit, into three parts, that every slayer may flee thither.

That whole chapter gos into more detail .
4 And this is the case of the slayer, which shall flee thither, that he may live: Whoso killeth his neighbour ignorantly, whom he hated not in time past;
 
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Kerry

Guest
#42
The theme is mercy, can God forgive a cold blooded killer. The answer.......... Yes.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#43
I would also like to add that, without exception, the murderers I questioned in my career all said that the death penalty was not a deterrent to them.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#44
Deuteronomy 22: 1- 30

For the sake of time and to keep things simple, I'm going to keep this more concise . And focus in on the chapter with the verse you highlighted.


Deuteronomy 22:

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:

21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."


All I can say is, we can see this rule is not in effect in these day. This token can only be guessed at what it was. But, if it was found out she, or anyone, was going against the commandments of God, this was the penalty at that time. The scriptures in Leviticus and the rest of Deuteronomy show what kind of perverse things were going on, even today. And God is against it. Weather its a women or man. Today, these laws are not followed, and we see the results in society .

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.


Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find here in the city, and lie with her;

( A married women, sleeping with a man other then her husband. And a man, sleeping with some one's wife. )

Deuteronomy 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbours wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."

( She did not cry out against the act , means she was a willing particapent.. And the man, because he sleept with some ones wife. )


Deuteronomy 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

( In this case, if a man force her , means rape. The penalty for rape here is death as it repeates again in verse 26. )

Deuteronomy 22:26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

( Rape in the eyes of God is in the same degree of sin as that of murdering a neighbor without cause. Rape and premeditated criminal homicide are treated exactly alike, with the same punishments before the eyes of God. God has no patience with a rapist. God is telling us to kill the rapist, and send him to Him. So these things will not happen again, and it will establish order in the community so that others that have the penalty will keep it in mind and think twice before doing such an act. The rapist that is killed, can not commit the crime again. )


Deuteronomy 22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her....


( This next example below is not rape. And if it was the case, that the relashinship was forced, its the same penalty to the rapist as just stated in verse 26 . )

Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."


( In this case both the man and the woman were both consenting to their sexual relationship, and when they have had this relationship together, they are to married. Though there are biblical reasons for divorce, a man could not use those reasons if he and she had engaged in premarital sex, under this law.

To make clear again: the Word of God, documentend in verse 26, that a man that rapes a women, is to be put to death. So, no matter the situation, married, or not, if, he forced her , the penalty still stands. A rapist must be put to death .
The part here that must be considered is whether or not she chose to be in that sexual relationship. She should not be forced to marry , if he forced himself upon her. If he forced that relationship, than the penalty for rape as we just read is the same .The difference between these two cases was that in the first case the woman was betrothed, and in the second case she was not.
The virgin girl that is not engaged or married to a man has the same rights as the young lady that is engaged to be married. I know our heavenly Father would have the same penalty on the man committing the act regardless of the marital status of the lady. And a Christian that cares what God's Words should know that. )
 
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nathan3

Guest
#45
The theme is mercy, can God forgive a cold blooded killer. The answer.......... Yes.
That is true. But they still have to be sentenced to death for their crime. Christ prevents the death of the soul. Not the flesh . Remember flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven .

This reminds me of What Christ said,

Matthew 5:21-22

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;( murder ) and whosoever shall ( murder ) shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#46
I would also like to add that, without exception, the murderers I questioned in my career all said that the death penalty was not a deterrent to them.
What , will they come back from the dead to murder/rape again ? Execution is the best and only deterrent ... I mean, when will people wise up and get sick of what they see on the news ?
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#47
Knowing that they would possibly face the death penalty if caught did not deter them from committing murder, especially since most murders are crimes of passion, nor does it undo the murder they committed.

Also, just because a law is no longer enforced, does not mean that the law is no longer in force. Even among the laws of man there are laws in my country and state alone that are still on the books/in effect, but are simply not enforced.

Even though those who are in Christ Jesus are under grace and not the law, there is this scripture:

Matthew 5: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#48
That is true. But they still have to be sentenced to death for their crime. Christ prevents the death of the soul. Not the flesh . Remember flesh and blood cannot inherit heaven .

This reminds me of What Christ said,

Matthew 5:21-22

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;( murder ) and whosoever shall ( murder ) shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Are we not all sentenced to the second death. The only thing that stands between us and second death is the cross of Christ am I wrong or right?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#49
Knowing that they would possibly face the death penalty if caught did not deter them from committing murder, especially since most murders are crimes of passion, nor does it undo the murder they committed.

Also, just because a law is no longer enforced, does not mean that the law is no longer in force. Even among the laws of man there are laws in my country and state alone that are still on the books/in effect, but are simply not enforced.

Even though those who are in Christ Jesus are under grace and not the law, there is this scripture:

Matthew 5: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily, I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.
Everyone is not blind to what is happening on a daily basis around the world in the age with modern communication.
I know the world is a lot darker place then some are willing to admit. And innocent people are the ones in the crossfire Between the criminal element, and those in a position to act, but do nothing.

I don't need to run down the list of things going on from state to state in the world.

For A Christian its not about undoing a wrong done, its about Justice and God's way. Which if man would enforce and follow, would bring peace to the countless victims that are wronged in many ways then one, at the hands of devious people.

God warned us it would only get worse before it gets better. And that only happens when He returns and takes what is rightfully His. People are just to blind to see we can have peace now, if we obeyed Him.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#50
Are we not all sentenced to the second death. The only thing that stands between us and second death is the cross of Christ am I wrong or right?
That is right, for those that accept Him. And Christ's Words. But a murder is on thin ice as its written there.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#51
This my friend is where we separate the men from the boys. Why do you think that Jesus set that harlot adultery free. I will attempt to tell you why. The same that the harlot Rahab was in the lineage of Christ. Faith, Faith, Faith,. What was accounted to Abraham as righteousness ( or do I talk to babes) faith and nothing else. Having faith is difficult to our human nature. Trusting something we cannot see. The eyes of flesh see only the problem and faith see's the solution.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#52
Exactly. It IS about doing it God's way. And scripture clearly indicates that murder is not the only offense punishable by death. Whether the laws people (not God) consider to be antiquated are enforced today or not they are still in the Book. I simply find myself wondering why people want to enforce the laws regarding murder, but want to ignore the other offenses.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#53
Exactly. It IS about doing it God's way. And scripture clearly indicates that murder is not the only offense punishable by death. Whether the laws people (not God) consider to be antiquated are enforced today or not they are still in the Book. I simply find myself wondering why people want to enforce the laws regarding murder, but want to ignore the other offenses.
I agree we should be enforcing these things. But this government is from the people, so people have to make it happen with a vote and with and work in government. But the world is too far gone now.

I think some where it's written to follow the laws of the land. But I'm not sure where its written.The way the world is , I don't see it happening. I see just see worse of the same. And the government is actually supporting the those things God is against.
 
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Jullianna

Guest
#54
Agreed. People expect scripture to conform to culture, not culture to the Word of God. They are in for a rude awakening. I pray as many as possible will wake up and turn to Him. Good talking with you! Go with God!
 
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nathan3

Guest
#55
This my friend is where we separate the men from the boys. Why do you think that Jesus set that harlot adultery free. I will attempt to tell you why. The same that the harlot Rahab was in the lineage of Christ. Faith, Faith, Faith,. What was accounted to Abraham as righteousness ( or do I talk to babes) faith and nothing else. Having faith is difficult to our human nature. Trusting something we cannot see. The eyes of flesh see only the problem and faith see's the solution.
Rahab was actually not a harlot. She is is linage of Christ, like you said, Read Ruth. God never called her that. but it was men, that called her that.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#56
Lets see David was a man after God's own heart yet he was a murderer. Killed His own man that was one of his finest for the lust of a women. If you do not see the mercy and grace in that then you are blind
 
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TyC113

Guest
#57
I would also like to add that, without exception, the murderers I questioned in my career all said that the death penalty was not a deterrent to them.
Actually, what's sad is that I have heard people say that death penalty is something better, since they don't face general population. Plus, Julianna, what state are you from exactly if I may ask? My home state can have people on death row for 15 years, so it's like they live a long time anyhow after the fact. Punishment isn't really too swift in my home state (OK).
 
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woka

Guest
#58
I somehow think that the death pentalty might be the easy way out, whereas having to make penance and face the people you wronged might be harder to face. I always wonder behind the phycology of why someone did what they did? What have they themselves been through to behave the way that they do?

Is their behaviour justified NO, but helps us learn how to try and help future victims of crimes, abuse etc to help prevent them and other's from becoming perpetrators in the future.

We also sit in judgement of these people all to often and not their crimes. Jesus sit's in judgement of what we did with what we knew, and what we did about what happened to us, what decisions we made based on what did or didnt happen to us throughout our lives. He is able to distinguish the difference, I think we all to often are not able to do this.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#59
The theme is mercy, can God forgive a cold blooded killer. The answer.......... Yes.
yes, but that doesn't mean the consequences are negated. God forgave King David, but the sword never left his family.
 

Dude653

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2011
12,324
1,039
113
#60
The theme is mercy, can God forgive a cold blooded killer. The answer.......... Yes.
Justice is not an issue of mercy or forgiveness. What if i rob a bank and shoot 15 people, then when i stand before the judge, i say ''well your honor, I prayed about it and God forgave me'' Is the judge gonna reply with ''ok then, you're free to go'' No, justice still has to prevail. God will forgive me for jumping off a cliff, but im still gonna smack the ground just as hard.