CHRISTMAS: SHOULD IT BE CELEBRATED OR REJECTED? YOU DECIDE

[RickShafer]

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Jer 10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
Jer 10:6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
Jer 10:7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
Jer 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Jer 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

With previous references and following in the Word, this is all refering to making idols to worship.

The craftsman cuts down a tree, carves it to the desired shape, oftimes plating it with gold or silver, fastening it into place since it cannot walk, talk, eat, or anything at all, being an idol.

These idols are made from the tree's wood yield. I do not believe the tree is left as a tree in these instances, although this reference is not as specific..........? But it does say they speak not etc. in the verses.

Yes Jack, whether it's in the form of a tree or in the fashion of a totem pole........
It's still an idol.
It still signifies a departure from the blessed assurance........
What arrives under the totemistic tree?
Material gifts? Presents?
Notice how they are placed UNDER the tree, isn't that reminiscent of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God?
I say satan is very pernicious; and very smart........see how even in this he mocks God.........
and ever so much more so as the world spirals into more and more into a 'placated by material things' vortex!
Notice how they call them 'gifts'? What are the true gifts? Are not they righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost?
See how satan laughs, that God would be a tree and instead of the waters of life, materials of death -(mammon)!
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the misunderstandings yielding under the lies of the deceiver.
I would that God ..............(I'll stop)

 

[loveme1]

There are three gods names used to make the name Israel.... isis ra and el

coincidence?

 

[loveme1]

Yes Jack, whether it's in the form of a tree or in the fashion of a totem pole........
It's still an idol.
It still signifies a departure from the blessed assurance........
What arrives under the totemistic tree?
Material gifts? Presents?
Notice how they are placed UNDER the tree, isn't that reminiscent of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God?
I say satan is very pernicious; and very smart........see how even in this he mocks God.........
and ever so much more so as the world spirals into more and more into a 'placated by material things' vortex!
Notice how they call them 'gifts'? What are the true gifts? Are not they righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost?
See how satan laughs, that God would be a tree and instead of the waters of life, materials of death -(mammon)!
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the misunderstandings yielding under the lies of the deceiver.
I would that God ..............(I'll stop)

It is enough to send a person crazy... to see the deception where others can not.

Thank Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah for their Truth and Comfort.

 

[tjogs]

Here's few guestions that you have raised to my mind:
-Is it wrong to celebrate the birth of Christ on one day in year (to remember He came here to die for us)
-Again is it wrong if that day just happen to be the same day as pagans worshipped their gods? (If you couldn't care a less about their gods)
-Is it wrong to pass this celebration as tradition you have to your children and teach them to make difference between capitalised/pagan/world feast of that same day?
- Is it wrong to celebrate birth and work of Jesus on a day if neither the day or celebration isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible?

 

[RickShafer]

Here's few guestions that you have raised to my mind:
-Is it wrong to celebrate the birth of Christ on one day in year (to remember He came here to die for us)
-Again is it wrong if that day just happen to be the same day as pagans worshipped their gods? (If you couldn't care a less about their gods)
-Is it wrong to pass this celebration as tradition you have to your children and teach them to make difference between capitalised/pagan/world feast of that same day?
- Is it wrong to celebrate birth and work of Jesus on a day if neither the day or celebration isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible?

Is it wrong? - All the questions you asked.
Do what you want.
I didn't make you, I just spouted some truth.
You decide for yourself. - (I care not about false idols, I care about the lies in the name of Christ)
But again, I'm not God. - (So don't mind me)

 

[tjogs]

But if something is lie is it then also wrong?

Lies added to truth can corrupt lot of things. Traditions and their meanings can be changed or forgotten but is having some tradition itself right or wrong regardless the origin of that tradition?

 

[JaumeJ]

Is it wrong? - All the questions you asked.
Do what you want.
I didn't make you, I just spouted some truth.
You decide for yourself. - (I care not about false idols, I care about the lies in the name of Christ)
But again, I'm not God. - (So don't mind me)

OK, Rick, I do not know, nor do I wish to know, exactly what a saturnalia is. It is certain the original meaning deals with a false god called Saturn.

The enemy has no power to go through Yeshua or His Blood to harm anyone who has called on Yeshua, Jesus to be his Savior.

So if a holy day should coincide with Sunday, Monday, etc, this can by no means be interpreted as giving credence or glory to any of those false gods.

I did not hear of this saturnalia until about four years ago, and I still do not know exactly what it is except it deals with a false god and pagans.

So I commemorate the birth of Yeshua, Jesus, and it happens to be on the 25th or on a Sunday or a Monday, this has nothing to do with my faith in God, Yahweh, it is just the way in which the calendar and the day names have been perverted by people who wanted to move away from anything looking Jewish in observing the days of the week and religion in general.

I love Yeshua, Jesus as my savior, my only God. I need Him, and I need His most precious grace daily. I praise Him for suffering my lack of wisdom and holy knowledge daily. Nothing makes any difference for anyone who is in Yeshua in regard to the names of days or what pagans did way back when. I do know the RCC practiced including pagan dates to coincide with days they deemed as Christian, and that is as far is it goes for the faithful. The tradition is relating only to Jesus, Yeshua, never to any gods. God, Yahweh forbid. God bless you.

I cannot find that reference to harmless traditions anywhere. I have read many translations of the Word, and at present I do not have access to all I have read, but this is no excuse,t hey all say the same thing, so maybe I am hallucinating on that. I do know an example of harmless traditions, that would be celebrating anniversaries or birthdays, but that is not in the Word, so I cannot use these small examples as support..............big duhhhhhh here.l

 

[RickShafer]

Traditions are what we tend to live on.
I was just pointing to the original meanings.
I was enveloped by materialism at a young age by looking for the mammon underneath the tree.
But does that mean I wouldn't have got hooked later by some other means?
I had family that were Jehovah's witnesses (which don't observe christmas),
and I noticed when they visited their children (my age) were continually lusting after my toys.
I gave them my collection of 1976 baseball cards and later my entire collection of matchbox cars.
Again, I'm not saying anything regarding your heart.
Only God knows that......I was just pointing out the insipid way Lucifer works - to make the Lord's birthday
Saturnalia,(Dec. 25th).
And the mammon(presents) under the tree(totem for god) as a counterfeit of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God really irks me.
That's all I'm saying........I hate how Satan corrupts even the celebration of Jesus coming into the world.

 

[JaumeJ]

Traditions are what we tend to live on.
I was just pointing to the original meanings.
I was enveloped by materialism at a young age by looking for the mammon underneath the tree.
But does that mean I wouldn't have got hooked later by some other means?
I had family that were Jehovah's witnesses (which don't observe christmas),
and I noticed when they visited their children (my age) were continually lusting after my toys.
I gave them my collection of 1976 baseball cards and later my entire collection of matchbox cars.
Again, I'm not saying anything regarding your heart.
Only God knows that......I was just pointing out the insipid way Lucifer works - to make the Lord's birthday
Saturnalia,(Dec. 25th).
And the mammon(presents) under the tree(totem for god) as a counterfeit of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God really irks me.
That's all I'm saying........I hate how Satan corrupts even the celebration of Jesus coming into the world.

It is all in our experience I suppose. Yahweh really is so personal in His care for us. When I was a child I dreaded Christmas because there was always a lot of fighting. Being of hillbilly stock we do not say arguing, fighting fits the bill. There were very few if any gifts. My first home was an army tent, no Christmas, then a trailer home, no Christmas. Even though I suffered illness, hunger and general deprivations, somehow I pitied wealthy kids because they seemed to have a lot of responsibility with it. I went to public schools in and around Long Beach, California, so there were not so well offs attending classes with very well offs..............I recall seeing a newsreel and seeing Prince Charles in the garden of Buckingham Palace. He could not have been more than seven or eight, and I felt so bad for him because he had so much responsibility for a tyke. Maybe responsibility was not yet in my own vocabulary, but the concept was there. I really hated Christmas, but when I came to know by the Holy Spirit that Jesus, Yeshua, really loves me so much, I began loving Christmas for that reason, having nothing to do with trees or gifts or any of those visible demonstrations of the commercial hoopla, no, it is only Spirit to me now, and I love it. Happy Birthday Yeshua!

 

[RickShafer]

Yea, you were spared the mammon plunge Jaume. Good for you, no wonder
the tree and material things littered under it don't offend you......you never had them.
I personally can't stand Santa Claus, as the God archtype - coming through the air with blessings.
Talk about another false Christ symbol. And "oh' what is the first faith you have....as a youngster.....well faith in Santa of course.
I'm glad my mom set me straight on that one, right from the outset.
I love the music, the carols......but I hate the crass commercialism, (satan, the god of commerce), it has become.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yea, you were spared the mammon plunge Jaume. Good for you, no wonder
the tree and material things littered under it don't offend you......you never had them.
I personally can't stand Santa Claus, as the God archtype - coming through the air with blessings.
Talk about another false Christ symbol. And "oh' what is the first faith you have....as a youngster.....well faith in Santa of course.
I'm glad my mom set me straight on that one, right from the outset.
I love the music, the carols......but I hate the crass commercialism, (satan, the god of commerce), it has become.

This is not original at all, but I did dream it up all by myself, I always called Santa Claus the Satan Claus of Christmas. I am blessed with generous and loving aunts, uncles and cousins. My one cousin had just about anything a kid could want, and when I visited he would let me do anything I wanted and play with everything he had, except his accordion of course, lol. Because of the broken home I used to latch on to families and adopt them, even within my own relatives. I love my Aunt Gertrude and Uncle Hally so much to this day, may the Lord have them in His peace. It is so easy to love the family in Yeshua when they exhibit their love, and many times when they do not. But you know all of this. God bless you l'il one........amen....

 

[tjogs]

I remember that when I was small kid I believed (because of culture around me) into santa, but at age when I went to school I had already started to doubt it and next winter we had chat about it with my parents. We also never had the presents under christmas tree thing. And I wouldn't even understood why put something under it if the tree itself (in our family) just the night or more plainly just the structure to hold all the things to put there. Before reading it here today I didn't even knew the tree itself means anything... exept the invisible to imagine "structure" that looks or dont' looks pretty.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

There are three gods names used to make the name Israel.... isis ra and el
coincidence?

Not coincidence, graven imagery. "Israel" = "struggles with El"
Which is what the real Israel does, in an edifying manner, every waking moment.

 

[matt36]

We have freedom in Christ that we need not be concerned so much with seasons, holidays, holydays, etc.

Colossians 2:16: Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[matt36]

Yes Jack, whether it's in the form of a tree or in the fashion of a totem pole........
It's still an idol.
It still signifies a departure from the blessed assurance........
What arrives under the totemistic tree?
Material gifts? Presents?
Notice how they are placed UNDER the tree, isn't that reminiscent of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God?
I say satan is very pernicious; and very smart........see how even in this he mocks God.........
and ever so much more so as the world spirals into more and more into a 'placated by material things' vortex!
Notice how they call them 'gifts'? What are the true gifts? Are not they righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost?
See how satan laughs, that God would be a tree and instead of the waters of life, materials of death -(mammon)!
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the misunderstandings yielding under the lies of the deceiver.
I would that God ..............(I'll stop)

I used to believe the same thing till God revealed something to me one day. We are no longer under the Law. Therefore, God's requirements of worship, and do's and dont's no longer apply as they did under the Law. Think about it - under the Law noone could eat pork, they had to celebrate specific festivals and specific dates and times, etc. Yet in the New Testament, Paul made it clear that God revealed to him that those things don't matter any more. We have freedom in Christ, and so we are no longer bound by the Law. If you take part of the Law - we can't put up Christmas trees, we can't have a cross on our walls, then you have to abide by the entire Law. Under the Law, it was not selective - you could not choose to obey part of it and not the rest. So I ask you, will you obey the entire Law (which is impossible, I might add, and you would need to then perform sacrifices to cleanse you of your sins), or will you live by grace and accept that Jesus has broken those requirements by giving us a direct relationship with God?

See, the Law was made, first to reveal that noone is perfect and therefore needs a Savior, but also to keep people in communion with God - but never directly, as they needed a priest. Jesus came as the final High Priest, broke the veil, and established direct communication, thus breaking the requirement of the Law.

 

[ozell]

Revelation 12:7-10 (KJV)
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, [8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. [10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan deceived the whole world? I

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes Jack, whether it's in the form of a tree or in the fashion of a totem pole........
It's still an idol.
It still signifies a departure from the blessed assurance........
What arrives under the totemistic tree?
Material gifts? Presents?
Notice how they are placed UNDER the tree, isn't that reminiscent of the waters of life flowing out from under the throne of God?
I say satan is very pernicious; and very smart........see how even in this he mocks God.........
and ever so much more so as the world spirals into more and more into a 'placated by material things' vortex!
Notice how they call them 'gifts'? What are the true gifts? Are not they righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost?
See how satan laughs, that God would be a tree and instead of the waters of life, materials of death -(mammon)!
I'm sick of it. I'm sick of the misunderstandings yielding under the lies of the deceiver.
I would that God ..............(I'll stop)

People are capable of idolizing anything. Even though I do not like the commercial aspect of Christmas, I do not see, nor have I ever perceived the Christmas tree as being worshiped by those whom I have known all of my life especially Christian family members.

It has been posted here that people are being deceived, and I suppose this is to be interpreted as they are worshiping Satan without knowing it.

From my understanding from the Word, a brother or sister is not guilty of any sin when he or she is not aware it is the sin.

I have heard the Christmas tree stories as how it came from pagan customs, but it does not mean anything at all to most who love Yeshua, Jesus. Most folks dedicate (in the mind) the Christmas tree to the birth of the Messiah. I do not decorate or put up a tree because I think it is dumb, nothing more, nothing less, but it certainly is not people worshiping it. Mercy always, even in thinking as long as it does not allow for the enemy.

 

[RickShafer]

I'm just pointing out what it means. The origins in the spirit realm of what it stands for.
Certainly to the children, christmas means getting presents - (material gain).
Whether people realize it or not.
But, as I said before, not observing it doesn't exclude the possibility for children to lust after the very same things they don't get.
I just reject the shadows of idolatry contained in the evergreen tree and the presents under it.
The tree being a type of God (who never dies), and the material gifts under it being replacements for the living waters flowing
out from under His throne.
You have to admit, savages worship totem poles and trees to this day.
So, the typology of the evergreen in winter being adorned and placed in the living quarters with the material gifts under it
is not lost on me.
Will people go to hell for having a christmas tree? Of course not.
I'm just pointing to the origins of it, as well as the day chosen to celebrate it - Saturnalia.

 

[ozell]

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan deceived the whole world , so how do you know what day Jesus was born ? How do you know you are not deceived? Satan comes as a angel of light.

 

[ozell]

John 12:38-40 (KJV)
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? [39] Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, [40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Maybe it's not there time to see .

How many of us was born knowing the truth?
How many of us ate still Learning Something new every day from The Lord?