which is a different gospel....Christ says you must bear fruit....now you are telling him he must bear the fruit....the tail does not wag the dog....your question is backwards....we need Christ that we may bear fruit...what you are explaining there is false humility... God gave us o his spirit...what more do you want ...go out and do the work and quit saying you ate not able....the only way you are not able is if he is not in you....
Conditional Salvation
- Thread starter SeaBass
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I never said that I want to CONTINUE to live in sin either, yet newbirth continues to falsely accuse me of this as well. His true colors are showing, as you have pointed out!
which is a different gospel....Christ says you must bear fruit....now you are telling him he must bear the fruit....the tail does not wag the dog....your question is backwards....we need Christ that we may bear fruit...what you are explaining there is false humility... God gave us o his spirit...what more do you want ...go out and do the work and quit saying you ate not able....the only way you are not able is if he is not in you....
You said we need Christ that we may bear the fruit.
If Christ in you is that possible you not bear the fruit?
Do you believe Jesus need you to produce fruit?
Fruit is good work, for example helping the needy with love.
Do you believe Jesus never help the needy without human help?
Fruit is good work, for example helping the needy with love.
Do you believe Jesus never help the needy without human help?
That is the reverse also. When one has faith then one will abide. If one loses faith, rejects Christ one is not abiding in Him and thus will not be saved. Don't make it complex when it is quite simple.
It seems clear from what Cassian posted that he does not have faith; he does not trust the Savior to save him; that Cassian has not yet trusted Christ with Cassian's eternal destiny.
The Bible nowhere ever says "lose faith." The 2 words don't even occur together in the same verse.
What does occur is
I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Luke tells us how He prayed for Peter:
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: 32 but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; . . . . BTW, Peter went on to deny Christ! Yet Peter's eternal destiny was secure. Why? Because Peter had and has a Savior who sees when we start to drown in the sea -- then the Hand of the Savior grasps ahold & does not let go.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Sing it:
The hand of my Savior is strong,
And the arm of my Savior is long;
Through sunshine or rain,
Through loss or in gain;
The blood flows from Calv'ry to cleanse every stain!
E
Quite simply wrong. Let everyone note how Cassian shrinks not from pontificating. He brazenly asserts without scripture. The Scripture is contrary to Cassian.
It seems clear from what Cassian posted that he does not have faith; he does not trust the Savior to save him; that Cassian has not yet trusted Christ with Cassian's eternal destiny.
The Bible nowhere ever says "lose faith." The 2 words don't even occur together in the same verse.
What does occur is
I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Luke tells us how He prayed for Peter:
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: 32 but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; . . . . BTW, Peter went on to deny Christ! Yet Peter's eternal destiny was secure. Why? Because Peter had and has a Savior who sees when we start to drown in the sea -- then the Hand of the Savior grasps ahold & does not let go.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Sing it:
The hand of my Savior is strong,
And the arm of my Savior is long;
Through sunshine or rain,
Through loss or in gain;
The blood flows from Calv'ry to cleanse every stain!
It seems clear from what Cassian posted that he does not have faith; he does not trust the Savior to save him; that Cassian has not yet trusted Christ with Cassian's eternal destiny.
The Bible nowhere ever says "lose faith." The 2 words don't even occur together in the same verse.
What does occur is
I give them eternal life, & they shall never perish.
We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
Luke tells us how He prayed for Peter:
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: 32 but I made supplication for thee, that thy faith fail not; . . . . BTW, Peter went on to deny Christ! Yet Peter's eternal destiny was secure. Why? Because Peter had and has a Savior who sees when we start to drown in the sea -- then the Hand of the Savior grasps ahold & does not let go.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.
Sing it:
The hand of my Savior is strong,
And the arm of my Savior is long;
Through sunshine or rain,
Through loss or in gain;
The blood flows from Calv'ry to cleanse every stain!
Some one keeps going on about the Abide in Christ passage in John 15, where abiding is staying in fellowship with Christ vs. getting out of fellowship with Him, nothing about losing salvation, which He declared would never happen. For the Savior Saves His people from their sins.
One of the means of keeping Christians saved is chastisement.
And as a matter of fact fruit includes souls won in evangelism. And John 15 says that the fruit abides!
One of the means of keeping Christians saved is chastisement.
And as a matter of fact fruit includes souls won in evangelism. And John 15 says that the fruit abides!
"Conditional Salvation."
What seems to be meant is that
there is no such thing as Salvation, but just
"Getting a Chance at It."
What everyone misses in the story of Noah is how when the Ark was built,
Noah was not allowed in, but had to hold on to a nail and hang on the outside of the Ark.
Next someone will be trying to sell us
dehydrated water pills.
What seems to be meant is that
there is no such thing as Salvation, but just
"Getting a Chance at It."
What everyone misses in the story of Noah is how when the Ark was built,
Noah was not allowed in, but had to hold on to a nail and hang on the outside of the Ark.
Next someone will be trying to sell us
dehydrated water pills.
That is the reverse also. When one has faith then one will abide. If one loses faith, rejects Christ one is not abiding in Him and thus will not be saved. Don't make it complex when it is quite simple.
Do you believe you able to do good before abide in Him?
The Only Condition is the faithfulness of the Lord Jesus, so far as continued salvation is concerned.
Rom 4:16
For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Peter
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus; for
He shall save His people from their sins.
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Rom 4:16
For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Peter
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus; for
He shall save His people from their sins.
The gifts & the calling of God are irrevocable.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
OK brother, let me ask you question. You believe to be save require Faith and work am I correct?
Do you believe you able to do good before abide in Him?
Do you believe you able to do good before abide in Him?
We are being saved THROUGH faith. Faith cannot exist without works. Works is the content of faith. Faith alone is meaningless. Faith and works is an unbroken tandem in scripture.
Why ask the opposite?
We are being saved THROUGH faith. Faith cannot exist without works. Works is the content of faith. Faith alone is meaningless. Faith and works is an unbroken tandem in scripture.
We are being saved THROUGH faith. Faith cannot exist without works. Works is the content of faith. Faith alone is meaningless. Faith and works is an unbroken tandem in scripture.
How you believe work/fruit is the requirement of salvation? It is inverted brother.
fruit is evident/result of faith not requirement of salvation.
The problem is Jesus said, branch can't bear the fruit of it self.
How you believe work/fruit is the requirement of salvation? It is inverted brother.
fruit is evident/result of faith not requirement of salvation.
How you believe work/fruit is the requirement of salvation? It is inverted brother.
fruit is evident/result of faith not requirement of salvation.
When one is justified by faith, one is put into a correct relationship with Christ. Unless one also repent, and is baptized one cannot enter into Christ. Entering Christ a person takes hold (possession) of eternal life, but does not have it finitely. Salvation is granted at the end of one's life, or not granted. What you do as a believer, living in faith determines your inheritance.
So, therefore, faith is the requirement but faith is empty, meaningless without the content which is works which will result in being given eternal life. The correct wording is that we are being saved through faith not by faith. We are justified by faith.
E
Because you don't understand salvation. It is quite apparent that you hold to OSAS, or that justification by faith means salvation. Where is that stated in scripture?
When one is justified by faith, one is put into a correct relationship with Christ. Unless one also repent, and is baptized one cannot enter into Christ. Entering Christ a person takes hold (possession) of eternal life, but does not have it finitely. Salvation is granted at the end of one's life, or not granted. What you do as a believer, living in faith determines your inheritance.
So, therefore, faith is the requirement but faith is empty, meaningless without the content which is works which will result in being given eternal life. The correct wording is that we are being saved through faith not by faith. We are justified by faith.
When one is justified by faith, one is put into a correct relationship with Christ. Unless one also repent, and is baptized one cannot enter into Christ. Entering Christ a person takes hold (possession) of eternal life, but does not have it finitely. Salvation is granted at the end of one's life, or not granted. What you do as a believer, living in faith determines your inheritance.
So, therefore, faith is the requirement but faith is empty, meaningless without the content which is works which will result in being given eternal life. The correct wording is that we are being saved through faith not by faith. We are justified by faith.
Actually the correct wording is Eph 2:8,9 "For BY grace you have BEEN saved THROUGH faith, and that not of yourselves; IT IS the gift of God, NOT of works, lest anyone should boast".
so if you don't do the good works it means you are either a faulty creation (blame God)or a disobedient creation(blame yourself)....in any event it is clear the good works is a person's choice as opposed to Jackson123 view that they just roll out of you like a production line...