Could Christ sin?

[eternally-gratefull]

we're talking about Jesus.
not me.

if the thought of accepting satan's offers contrary to Divine Will crossed Christ's mind as an alternative, would He not have sinned?

No, ALso remember tha garden. "if any way this cup can be removed" that was temptation. not sin.

anyway. we are not told what was in His mind. we are however told He never sinned.

Agree 100 %

EG: i don't see the temptation in the wilderness as a cliff hanger where Jesus may have failed.
i hardly see a comparison between eve and Jesus.

Temptation means the ability. Thats all. He had the ability to take easy way out. Everything Satan offered him was a valid thing. which means it was a temptation. Again, if something is offered which is not valid. it is not temptation.

again, Adam was 100% MAN. not Deity.

.

Christ left his diety behin (he emptied himself. Again, if he could not be tempted as we are. Scripture is in error. Also remember, Diety does not need to be taught, it knows all. Christ had to be taught.

i suppose we're saying the same thing here at least.
He was tempted/tested. period.

Yes

really?
momentarily tempted to what?
does it matter if it is momentarily?

Yeah it does. Do you ever think of something which is sinfull? Is it always sin? No. If it is we would be sinning most of the day

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If I see a woman, And think of both options ( one sinful one not) I am not sinning unless I act on the one which is sin.


Love ya too sis

 

[zone]

No, ALso remember tha garden. "if any way this cup can be removed" that was temptation. not sin.

oka-a-a-ay......i'm not convinced that was a "temptation" as we have been using it concerning sin.
it was a prayer TO THE FATHER.
i've never forgotten Jesus was also a Man EG. he was undergoing the greatest trial of all: ordained by The Father.

this fits perfectly with the passage in Hebrews which states He can sympathize with our weaknesses and trials as MEN (though what He truly endured there we who have been saved will not know, as He took our place...amen).

there's no temptation (re: to sin) anywhere even suggested in the Agony.

Temptation means the ability. Thats all. He had the ability to take easy way out.

well....what would have been entailed at any time in "taking the easy way out"?

Everything Satan offered him was a valid thing. which means it was a temptation. Again, if something is offered which is not valid. it is not temptation.

i didn't say the temptations put forth by satan were not valid offers.
i said there is no possibility He would have accepted.

i don't think we are disagreeing. i think we're off track.

back to the original point: is Jesus able to to sympathize with sinful thoughts, words and deeds?

Christ left his diety behind

??
so He was merely a human being on earth?
i don't want to derail this thread. we'll discuss this elsewhere.

Yeah it does. Do you ever think of something which is sinfull? Is it always sin? No. If it is we would be sinning most of the day

this makes no sense.
if you're thinking sinful thoughts you're sinning!
The Lord sees it all!

Matthew 9
3And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” 4But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?

here's where we totally disagree. but i don't want to argue it

If I see a woman, And think of both options ( one sinful one not) I am not sinning unless I act on the one which is sin.


Love ya too sis

ummmmm...i know this is a public forum. but i have no clue what you mean
what is "both options"?

if one option is lust, you don't have to act on it to be sin. the sinful thought is sin. Jesus said it's already sin in the heart.
love you
z

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well....what would have been entailed at any time in "taking the easy way out"?

You ever been so hungry you would eat anything? Christ was there, he felt that pain. he could have turned those rocks to bread, and stopped his pain. He did not. That is why it is called a temptation.

i didn't say the temptations put forth by satan were not valid offers.
i said there is no possibility He would have accepted.

Then they were not temptations. again you can not be tempted if there is no possibility for you to do it.

I can be tempted by a beautiful woman. I am a man, And my hormones and other stuff could cause my flesh to fail. I would be a fool to say I could never be tempted.

David saw Bathsheba. Saw she was beautiful and naked, was tempted. If he walked away, he never would have sinned. He did not. And temptation turned to sin.

I could never be tempted by a man. No way possible of that ever happening. So there could never be any temptation.

see the difference?

this makes no sense. if you're thinking sinful thoughts you're sinning! The Lord sees it all!

So satan, a demon, or my flesh puts an evil thought in my mind, it is sin? Even if I brush the thought aside? Come on Zone, I know you do not even believe this.

Matthew 9
3And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” 4But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?

here's where we totally disagree. but i don't want to argue it

See above

I hate arguing with you too. Just trying to get you to see what I am saying, I still think you do not understand yet.

ummmmm...i know this is a public forum. but i have no clue what you mean
what is "both options"?

if one option is lust, you don't have to act on it to be sin. the sinful thought is sin. Jesus said it's already sin in the heart.
love you
z

Again, If satan, a demon or my flesh puts the thought in my head, it is not sin. How many times has a thought suddenly appeared in your mind which was sinful? You saying that everytime it is sin? I just can't agree.



Love ya also. lots!!

 

[distinctiveministry]

hi EG.

If I am not hungry. I would never be tempted to steal food to fix my hunger. thus there can be no temptation.

if looking upon a woman to lust after her is adultery, and hatred is murder, the very thought of stealing food to feed yourself is sin.

Actually, I'm not sure that is the case, as far as the thought being sin. Jesus called lust and hatred sin, but did not explain why he expanded the law in this way. It is at least possible that the logic is basically that civil law with its consequences (or at least the fear of such consequences) is the only thing standing between the thought and the action. Jesus may well have been saying essentially that lust is adultry (because only outside forces keep you from acting on it). Speculation, sure, but we have no recourse BUT to speculate to understand why. Otherwise I'm not sure you can rightly expand what he said to include other circumstances. Thus, I would argue that if you are restrained from acting on evil thoughts by your desire to please God and not by other outside forces, then you have not sinned.

 

[zone]

I could never be tempted by a man. No way possible of that ever happening. So there could never be any temptation.

this just affirms what i have been saying EG.

said homosexual man propositions you: you have just been tempted.

you abhor the idea and were not tempted.

Jesus could not possiblity have sinned.

love zone.

 

[zone]

Actually, I'm not sure that is the case, as far as the thought being sin. Jesus called lust and hatred sin, but did not explain why he expanded the law in this way. It is at least possible that the logic is basically that civil law with its consequences (or at least the fear of such consequences) is the only thing standing between the thought and the action. Jesus may well have been saying essentially that lust is adultry (because only outside forces keep you from acting on it). Speculation, sure, but we have no recourse BUT to speculate to understand why. Otherwise I'm not sure you can rightly expand what he said to include other circumstances. Thus, I would argue that if you are restrained from acting on evil thoughts by your desire to please God and not by other outside forces, then you have not sinned.

hi DM.
makes sense.
if we are talking about men's way of thinking.
but our ways are not God's ways.
this is how fallen we are: that we think that we are not sinning by having evil thoughts yet not acting on them.

but this is about Jesus, so this doesn't work:

I would argue that if you are restrained from acting on evil thoughts by your desire to please God and not by other outside forces, then you have not sinned.

love you
zone

 

[zone]

Actually, I'm not sure that is the case, as far as the thought being sin. Jesus called lust and hatred sin, but did not explain why he expanded the law in this way. It is at least possible that the logic is basically that civil law with its consequences (or at least the fear of such consequences) is the only thing standing between the thought and the action. Jesus may well have been saying essentially that lust is adultry (because only outside forces keep you from acting on it). Speculation, sure, but we have no recourse BUT to speculate to understand why. Otherwise I'm not sure you can rightly expand what he said to include other circumstances. Thus, I would argue that if you are restrained from acting on evil thoughts by your desire to please God and not by other outside forces, then you have not sinned.

sorry DM.
i meant to add, i believe Jesus expanded the Law this way to expand the gravity and true nature of sin (transgression of the Law): The Pharisees and the people generally had come to believe obeying the letter mattered (their own righteousness), not the Spirit of the Law (meaning the terrifying reality of how God really views sin).
after His expansion of the Law in this way can any of us claim sinlessness?

this makes His Sacrifice for our sins, and His Righteousness all the more clearly what we need imputed to us.
nothing short of perfection will do before The I AM.

 

[notIbutChrist]

If we don't believe it's possible to turn from all sin, how will we persuade the world to repent?

 

[AnandaHya]

If the possibility of a rich man entering the kingdom of Heaven is equal to a camel going through an eye of a needle how can anyone enter?

Luke 18:24-27
New King James Version (NKJV)

24 And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?”
27 But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If we don't believe it's possible to turn from all sin, how will we persuade the world to repent?

we do as Christ said.

I did not come to judge, I came to save.

God has to save us from the penalty of sin, and restore us to him, before he can work on removing our sin issues.

Anyone who thinks they can turn from all sin does not know and understand the law very well. And does not understand the character of God very well. because they have to assume the sin they are still committing is somehow alright with God.

 

[tribesman]

Anyone who thinks they can turn from all sin does not know and understand the law very well. And does not understand the character of God very well. because they have to assume the sin they are still committing is somehow alright with God.

This is true. And seemingly needed to be repeated on this forum time and again.

 

[Israel]

This is true. And seemingly needed to be repeated on this forum time and again.

For this to be true, then the bible is in contradiction.

1 John 3:6-8

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[notIbutChrist]

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

Anyone who thinks they can turn from all sin does not know and understand the law very well. And does not understand the character of God very well. because they have to assume the sin they are still committing is somehow alright with God.

Anyone that does not believe they can turn from sin does not understand God grace, or God's power to save

 

[tribesman]

For this to be true, then the bible is in contradiction.

1 John 3:6-8

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Sin is not only works it is also about thoughts and impulses coming from the heart, it is neglecting to do at any time what you ought to do at all times, it is to act without faith at any time, it is to fail in the slightest tiny regard to live up to all the requirements of God's law.

The law contains all the five books of Moses (of which Jesus said not one yot or tittle would pass away as long as heaven and earth stood), which are shortly summarized in the ten commandments, the main content of the law being also expounded in the two greatest commandments and by Christ in the sermon of the mount, which tells us that the law must be kept not only outwardly but also inwardly.

No sin is justfied and should be confessed as such. Sin can be justified in several ways. One of them is to claim that sin is not sin but merely "mistakes" or "weaknesses" or similar or that one is sin-free in and by themselves. It all amounts to the same thing and it is deception.

1 John

[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[feedm3]

Anyone that does not believe they can turn from sin does not understand God grace, or God's power to save

If this is true the Bible is telling us to do the impossible:

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Concerning if Christ could sin; Yes:
That was the whole point to why he came in the flesh, so we could not say "yea he lived a life of sin because he could not sin."
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 

[Israel]

Sin is not only works it is also about thoughts and impulses coming from the heart, it is neglecting to do at any time what you ought to do at all times, it is to act without faith at any time, it is to fail in the slightest tiny regard to live up to all the requirements of God's law.

The law contains all the five books of Moses (of which Jesus said not one yot or tittle would pass away as long as heaven and earth stood), which are shortly summarized in the ten commandments, the main content of the law being also expounded in the two greatest commandments and by Christ in the sermon of the mount, which tells us that the law must be kept not only outwardly but also inwardly.

No sin is justfied and should be confessed as such. Sin can be justified in several ways. One of them is to claim that sin is not sin but merely "mistakes" or "weaknesses" or similar or that one is sin-free in and by themselves. It all amounts to the same thing and it is deception.

The question is then what is sin? It is defined in the bible as transgression of the law. For those who would complicate this definition, it is also written as such.

Romans 14:22-23

22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


The problem is that one persons definition of what sin is to that particular person is different from the next.

You may think it's a sin to eat pork, while I eat it in faith. One may see being gay as offensive, while another is gay in faith.

Now in both cases, the problem occurs when one judges another based on things which he may or may not allow.

Do I need to know all the ins and outs of the law? No! To love your neighbor as yourself is fulfillment of the law in it's entirety.

Can you, doing everything that you can to please God look upon one who does NONE of what you hold dear? Can you give glory to God that even he will be in paradise? If you can love your brother, then the law is fulfilled in you as well.

Our Father sends sunlight and rain on both the good and the bad.

 

[tribesman]

...The question is then what is sin? It is defined in the bible as transgression of the law...Do I need to know all the ins and outs of the law? No! To love your neighbor as yourself is fulfillment of the law in it's entirety...

Your input may be weighed in. However, what this issue boils down to is not different views on what sin is, the meaty part of this issue is about people claiming sinlessness, or to be sin free (except one's position in Christ). This is a serious issue. None other than Christ can rightly be said to have been sin free.

The law of God does not assume that men be sin free, rather the contrary, and it always point us to the blood sacrifices (that were commanded ) that are now fulfilled in Christ and have redeemed us. This (i e, the gospel) was and is the only valid means by which God will deal with man's sin. Those who do not trust and obey this, will be cut-off.

 

[zone]

Sin is not only works it is also about thoughts and impulses coming from the heart, it is neglecting to do at any time what you ought to do at all times, it is to act without faith at any time, it is to fail in the slightest tiny regard to live up to all the requirements of God's law.

The law contains all the five books of Moses (of which Jesus said not one yot or tittle would pass away as long as heaven and earth stood), which are shortly summarized in the ten commandments, the main content of the law being also expounded in the two greatest commandments and by Christ in the sermon of the mount, which tells us that the law must be kept not only outwardly but also inwardly.

No sin is justfied and should be confessed as such. Sin can be justified in several ways. One of them is to claim that sin is not sin but merely "mistakes" or "weaknesses" or similar or that one is sin-free in and by themselves. It all amounts to the same thing and it is deception.

AMEN

~

Him ALONE.
it is Finished.

 

[notIbutChrist]

Originally Posted by notIbutChrist

Anyone that does not believe they can turn from sin does not understand God grace, or God's power to save

If this is true the Bible is telling us to do the impossible:

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Concerning if Christ could sin; Yes:
That was the whole point to why he came in the flesh, so we could not say "yea he lived a life of sin because he could not sin."
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

I am not if you were trying to agree or disagree with my statement, but I agree with yours. It is not impossible to turn from our sin, and the scriptures you gave are very good scripture to show us as much