Could Christ sin?

[eternally-gratefull]

okay.
so the word infirmities and weaknesses.
any thought word or deed in Him as a result of experiencing/knowing temptations related to knowing those experiences were not sin.

so again, though He experienced/knew the weakness of a human body (and human nature, though undefiled) without food for 40 days; face to face with the devil, He knew/experienced the devil tempting/testing Him.

but the devil found nothing in Him.

because He was tempted (by someone or something) does not mean He was tempted (to do, say or think something sinful), neither does scripture say He had to have the capacity to do so (experience sin in Himself....He certainly experienced living in the midst of it).

though He partook of flesh and blood He never experienced sin, nor the temptation to sin. not possible. Jesus was more than just a man.

Hey sis, Just a question.

If Jesus could not experience temptation, nor have the ability to sin. How could he have been the perfect sacrifice? In order for one to redeem others for a crime. should they not have had the ability to do the same crime, yet have not done it?

To me, if Christ did not have the ability to sin, (As Did Adam who failed). His sacrifice was null and void. And God being the perfect judge would have to handle all of the people who make this claim, saying it was a false thing Christ did. because it was impossible for him to sin. so how could he redeem mankind to himself if he could not do what they did (sin). Thus God would have to either condemn everyone, or let everyone out. in not doing so. God would be an unfair judge. and in sin himself.

 

[zone]

Hey sis, Just a question.
If Jesus could not experience temptation,

hi bud. i never said He didn't experience temptation. He did. we know that. it does not anywhere say He experienced the result of temptation to sin (lust).

nor have the ability to sin. How could he have been the perfect sacrifice? In order for one to redeem others for a crime. should they not have had the ability to do the same crime, yet have not done it?

no, i don't think so.
where does scripture say Jesus had to have had the ability to commit a crime to be a Substitution?
a spotless lamb under the levitical system was never able to commit any crime.

its the BLOOD that is required. death.

this is where the Imputation comes in.

our sin imputed (laid on Him though He was never guilty), His Righteousness imputed to us, though we were never innocent.

To me, if Christ did not have the ability to sin, (As Did Adam who failed). His sacrifice was null and void. And God being the perfect judge would have to handle all of the people who make this claim, saying it was a false thing Christ did. because it was impossible for him to sin. so how could he redeem mankind to himself if he could not do what they did (sin). Thus God would have to either condemn everyone, or let everyone out. in not doing so. God would be an unfair judge. and in sin himself.

here we have the idea that Jesus had to have actually sinned to be an acceptable sacrifice.
if He did not have to sin, then why did he have to have the ability to?

He was a perfectly spotless Lamb from the beginning.

 

[leasamimee]

MY LORD JESUS IS PERFECT...and SINLESS..

 

[patience7]

okay.
so the word infirmities and weaknesses.
any thought word or deed in Him as a result of experiencing/knowing temptations related to knowing those experiences were not sin.

so again, though He experienced/knew the weakness of a human body (and human nature, though undefiled) without food for 40 days; face to face with the devil, He knew/experienced the devil tempting/testing Him.

but the devil found nothing in Him.

because He was tempted (by someone or something) does not mean He was tempted (to do, say or think something sinful), neither does scripture say He had to have the capacity to do so (experience sin in Himself....He certainly experienced living in the midst of it).

though He partook of flesh and blood He never experienced sin, nor the temptation to sin. not possible. Jesus was more than just a man.

I would just like to verify that I never said that Christ did sin. I just don't see any reason for someone to be tempted/tried/tested if it were not possible to fail. Test are usually given to see if someone passes or fails. Although he was tempted/tried/tested to sin; HE WAS WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH, THE PERFECT LAMB. And on this we can agree!!!!!!

 

[zone]

I would just like to verify that I never said that Christ did sin. I just don't see any reason for someone to be tempted/tried/tested if it were not possible to fail. Test are usually given to see if someone passes or fails. Although he was tempted/tried/tested to sin; HE WAS WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH, THE PERFECT LAMB. And on this we can agree!!!!!!

i think we agree anyways.
the purpose of His testing (we have been referring to specifically regarding His ability to sympathize with us in our weaknesses and infirmities AND in temptations) was not to have redemption hanging on the possibility of failure due to a possiblity of His sinning.

that's not required. He didn't have to have the ability to sin in order to be a Substitution.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi bud. i never said He didn't experience temptation. He did. we know that. it does not anywhere say He experienced the result of temptation to sin (lust).

And niether did I. I think you misread what I sad.

no, i don't think so.

where does scripture say Jesus had to have had the ability to commit a crime to be a Substitution?
a spotless lamb under the levitical system was never able to commit any crime.

its the BLOOD that is required. death.

this is where the Imputation comes in.

our sin imputed (laid on Him though He was never guilty), His Righteousness imputed to us, though we were never innocent.

example.

Turn rock to bread. Jesus was hungry. He had the ability to do what the temptation was. He could have done it. He chose to follow his father.

When we are hungry. He experienced it. He also experienced the ability to steal to feed his hunger. (which is what he would have done, among other things.) So he can share in our temptation.

here we have the idea that Jesus had to have actually sinned to be an acceptable sacrifice.
if He did not have to sin, then why did he have to have the ability to?
He was a perfectly spotless Lamb from the beginning.

Again you misread me. I did not say he had to sin. You should know that sis

 

[Abiding]

So it is possible for man to be sinless?

When we are fully conformed into His image of His Son. Yes.

 

[zone]

And niether did I. I think you misread what I sad

example.

Turn rock to bread. Jesus was hungry. He had the ability to do what the temptation was. He could have done it. He chose to follow his father.

When we are hungry. He experienced it. He also experienced the ability to steal to feed his hunger. (which is what he would have done, among other things.) So he can share in our temptation.


Again you misread me. I did not say he had to sin. You should know that sis

hi EG.
no, i didn't misread. we may just disagree.

we could say Jesus had the ability to sin i suppose. that is not anywhere even implied though.
the fact that He experienced testing/temptation is clearly stated.

its never said He was actually tempted to do anything (you understand the difference).

obeying satan would have been gross sin and anithethical to Deity, i hardly see there would have been any possibility in any respect of Him ever doing that. even hungered for 40 days, or 400 days wouldn't have caused Him to sin. He suffered humiliation, torture and death anyways without sinning.

scripture says even after that temptation BY/FROM satan, satan had/found NOTHING in Him.

being Emmanuel, there couldn't even be an inclination to such a thing. if His humanity had an inclination to sin..what are the ramifications of that?

love ya.
gotta go.

 

[Abiding]

Originally Posted by Abiding
He had the capacity to sin but He didnt sin. He had the nature and desire to please the Father.

Some men have desired to fly like a bird...it didnt work out...like you, they thought
the desire reflected their nature...tragic logic.

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Having thought over the meaning of the words..I need to change above statement to:
Jesus had the capacity to be tempted. NOT the capacity to sin.
Therefore No Jesus could not have sinned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi EG.
no, i didn't misread. we may just disagree.

we could say Jesus had the ability to sin i suppose. that is not anywhere even implied though.
the fact that He experienced testing/temptation is clearly stated.

its never said He was actually tempted to do anything (you understand the difference).

obeying satan would have been gross sin and anithethical to Deity, i hardly see there would have been any possibility in any respect of Him ever doing that. even hungered for 40 days, or 400 days wouldn't have caused Him to sin. He suffered humiliation, torture and death anyways without sinning.

scripture says even after that temptation BY/FROM satan, satan had/found NOTHING in Him.

being Emmanuel, there couldn't even be an inclination to such a thing. if His humanity had an inclination to sin..what are the ramifications of that?

love ya.
gotta go.

Again sis, I think you misunderstand me.

If I am hungry, and am tempted to steal some food I see. it is not sin. If I then steal that food. it becomes sin.

I have never claimed. Or even stated that jesus sinned.

You can not be tempted without the ability to sin. If Jesus did not have tha bility. he could not have been tempted. for there would have been no temptation..

If I am not hungry. I would never be tempted to steal food to fix my hunger. thus there can be no temptation.

Now I might be tempted to steal for other reasons. But the temptation would not be to "feed my hunger" it would be for other reasons.

I hope this helps you to understand what I am saying

 

[Abiding]

I believe Jesus suffering to learn obedience was character building and strengthening the man.
Just like He increased in wisdom and stature Luke 2:52 from a child. He lived as a man.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Having thought over the meaning of the words..I need to change above statement to:
Jesus had the capacity to be tempted. NOT the capacity to sin.
Therefore No Jesus could not have sinned.

Then Jesus had no free will. And he was not like Adam in any way. As Adam had free will. and could have chosen not to sin. Jesus was not given that opportunity.

At which case, I again state, His sacrifice was null and void.

A goat could never take away sin (or lamb) because they could never be tempted to sin, yet be without it. Christ could. Because he was tempted (as adam was) but chose (in free will) to reject sin, and serve his father.

 

[Abiding]

Then Jesus had no free will. And he was not like Adam in any way. As Adam had free will. and could have chosen not to sin. Jesus was not given that opportunity.

At which case, I again state, His sacrifice was null and void.

A goat could never take away sin (or lamb) because they could never be tempted to sin, yet be without it. Christ could. Because he was tempted (as adam was) but chose (in free will) to reject sin, and serve his father.

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first i dont remember any part of the atonement pertaining to having to have the ability to sin.
Or for that matter even having to be tempted...the Holyspirit tells us that for our comfort...not because
either one was required. Free will is a joke. Gods will is the point. Adam could make choices yes.
But we think we make the rules for what God does to redeem us? Is that more free will? Sorry for the
rant eg ive had too much mans free will stuff lately.

Temptation tests sufferring etc Jesus endured. God knows everything but has never had a sinful desire.
Real temptation can only effect desires and affections..Jesus was tempted "like we are" is not the same
as saying "Jesus was tempted" like we are. If so eg...He wasnt a spotless lamb...do you see?
He had a divine nature also that couldnt sin...the point of redemption isnt in its technical rules...because
God made the rules....and the rule was that "He redeems us" Thats the beauty of it...and He cant fail.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

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first i dont remember any part of the atonement pertaining to having to have the ability to sin.
Or for that matter even having to be tempted...the Holyspirit tells us that for our comfort...not because
either one was required. Free will is a joke. Gods will is the point. Adam could make choices yes.
But we think we make the rules for what God does to redeem us? Is that more free will? Sorry for the
rant eg ive had too much mans free will stuff lately.

Temptation tests sufferring etc Jesus endured. God knows everything but has never had a sinful desire.
Real temptation can only effect desires and affections..Jesus was tempted "like we are" is not the same
as saying "Jesus was tempted" like we are. If so eg...He wasnt a spotless lamb...do you see?
He had a divine nature also that couldnt sin...the point of redemption isnt in its technical rules...because
God made the rules....and the rule was that "He redeems us" Thats the beauty of it...and He cant fail.

Abiding my friend.

I will just make one response.

being tempted is not sin. Never has been, never will be.
Acting on that temptation is sin. Always has been.

Jesus being tempted does not mean he sinned. He did what adam did not do. He never acted on his temptation Adam did.

If jesus could not sin, he could not be tempted. If he could not sin, The saying, He was tempted in all ways as we are, yet without sin, means nothing. Because he could never be tempted "as we are"

Jesus suffered real hunger. He suffered real pain. He could have chosen to do what he was tempted with, and taken care of his hunger the "easy way" But he chose not to. If jesus could not hunger, and could not feel pain. then he could not be tempted, because he would have never had a reason to turn rock to bread.

Again. I can't be tempted if I can not have the ability do something.

 

[Abiding]

Abiding my friend.

I will just make one response.

being tempted is not sin. Never has been, never will be.
Acting on that temptation is sin. Always has been.

Jesus being tempted does not mean he sinned. He did what adam did not do. He never acted on his temptation Adam did.

If jesus could not sin, he could not be tempted. If he could not sin, The saying, He was tempted in all ways as we are, yet without sin, means nothing. Because he could never be tempted "as we are"

Jesus suffered real hunger. He suffered real pain. He could have chosen to do what he was tempted with, and taken care of his hunger the "easy way" But he chose not to. If jesus could not hunger, and could not feel pain. then he could not be tempted, because he would have never had a reason to turn rock to bread.

Again. I can't be tempted if I can not have the ability do something.

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But doesnt that bring on the arguement that if He could be tempted then...He could be tempted now? Or tempted in the future.
And if God cant be tempted nor tempteth He any man. Tons of problems come in this understanding.

For Him to be tempted like us....meaning same types of weaknesses which youve named some in the same
manner...yet not in the sense of fallen mans desire and affection to sin is tempted and forces are at work
inside us....which He didnt have....so "JUST" like us cant be taken to mean Just like us subjectively. But the
temptations were the same or just like them, in situations and weaknesses as we have.

Again...this may be a dialogue to understand a newtestament scripture...but redemption doesnt hang on this.
There is an eternal lesson in this Second Adam.....only God is spotless...Of coarse by the way Jesus always
did the Fathers will all the way to the cross. But if He wasnt divine He would have been the second fallen Adam.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

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But doesnt that bring on the arguement that if He could be tempted then...He could be tempted now? Or tempted in the future.

Why? He was resurrected with the same body we will have. Which CAN NOT SIN. That is why we will not be able to sin when we are resurrected. Being tempted has nothing to do with it. Because we will not be tempted in eternity.

Look at it this way.

1 Adam was able to not sin (before the fall)
2. Adam was not able not to sin (after the fall) (Recieved nature which is contrary to God)
3. At ressurection. Adam will not be able to sin.

1. God can not sin
2. Christ came to earth. took form of man. Like adam. no sin also no sin nature) Is able to not sin (free will, like adam) But unlike adam, did not sin
3. At ressurection. Not able to sin.

Us. Look at last two. We never were "able not to sin) as we were born with adams nature. also called the flesh.

And if God cant be tempted nor tempteth He any man. Tons of problems come in this understanding.

God can't be tempted as God. Man can be tempted. Christ came fully man, with free will, fully able to be tempted.. So I see no problem here. In fact I see praise. For Christ can be our high priest and help us. For he was tempted as we are. We will experience no temptation he himself did not endure and find victory over, So he knows exactly what we feel. and how to help us overcome. If could never have been tempted, he could never know what we are feeling (first hand experience)

For Him to be tempted like us....meaning same types of weaknesses which youve named some in the same manner...yet not in the sense of fallen mans desire and affection to sin is tempted and forces are at work inside us....which He didnt have....so "JUST" like us cant be taken to mean Just like us subjectively.

He came as Adam was created. Without a sin nature. Adam did not have the nature either. But he was tempted. and fell. Because he chose self over God. Christ was tempted as adam was. But he chose his father over self.

Again...this may be a dialogue to understand a newtestament scripture...but redemption doesnt hang on this. There is an eternal lesson in this Second Adam.....only God is spotless...Of coarse by the way Jesus always did the Fathers will all the way to the cross. But if He wasnt divine He would have been the second fallen Adam.

But only God is not spotless. All Angels that did not follow Satan are spotless. They have not sinned either.

And there is an eternal lesson to be learned. Not just by us, but by angels.

1. God left his throne and became fully man.
2. God was tempted to sin (talk about taking a chance. If Christ sinned. we would all be doomed, including him)
3. This same God, Chose to sacrifice himself in our place (for those he loved)
4. Can any creature (angel or man) challenge the love of God ever again??

 

[zone]

Again sis, I think you misunderstand me.

If I am hungry, and am tempted to steal some food I see. it is not sin. If I then steal that food. it becomes sin.

I have never claimed. Or even stated that jesus sinned.

You can not be tempted without the ability to sin. If Jesus did not have tha bility. he could not have been tempted. for there would have been no temptation..

If I am not hungry. I would never be tempted to steal food to fix my hunger. thus there can be no temptation.

Now I might be tempted to steal for other reasons. But the temptation would not be to "feed my hunger" it would be for other reasons.

I hope this helps you to understand what I am saying

hi EG.

If I am not hungry. I would never be tempted to steal food to fix my hunger. thus there can be no temptation.

if looking upon a woman to lust after her is adultery, and hatred is murder, the very thought of stealing food to feed yourself is sin.

satan's temptations/tests could not possibly in any way have stirred a temptation to sin within Jesus.
the temptation to sin comes from within a sinful heart.

Jesus never sinned in word thought or deed. impossible.

even after fasting 40 days, and going toe to toe with satan: no sin: no temptation to sin stirred within him.

satan found NOTHING in Him. zero.

anyways....i'm not really comfortable with this subject, so i'll leave it.
love zone.

 

[Abiding]

I disagree with you both...reminds me of my first day here.
But my mind isnt completely settled..ok no talky

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hi EG.

If I am not hungry. I would never be tempted to steal food to fix my hunger. thus there can be no temptation.

if looking upon a woman to lust after her is adultery, and hatred is murder, the very thought of stealing food to feed yourself is sin.

I agree, just a thought can be sin, But then, if just something coming in your mind is sin, we must sin a heck of alot them. Are you saying nothing crosses your mind which is a sin, and you quickly dismiss it?

satan's temptations/tests could not possibly in any way have stirred a temptation to sin within Jesus.

first off. This is just opinion. And may be true, may not be true.
If this is true, Satan would have known it, and would not have wasted his time. Satan is smarter than you think. How do you think he Got Eve to fall?

the temptation to sin comes from within a sinful heart.

So Adam and Eve had a sinfull heart? Sorry. The flesh (sin nature) did not happen until after they sinned, yetr they were tempted.

Jesus never sinned in word thought or deed. impossible.

I agree 100 %, If he did, his sacdrifice would have been useless, because he would not be a lamb without blemish

even after fasting 40 days, and going toe to toe with satan: no sin: no temptation to sin stirred within him.

Agree 1/2. Scripture said he had no sin. But it says he was tempted. If he was tempted. then temptation came upon him. Again, temptation is not sin. Doing the act by mind or hand is sin.

If I see a lady and am momentarily tempted. That is not sin. If I act on it. it is sin (by thought or mind.)

satan found NOTHING in Him. zero.

Again we agree. Not sure what your arguing here. we are in agreement.

 

[zone]

I agree, just a thought can be sin, But then, if just something coming in your mind is sin, we must sin a heck of alot them. Are you saying nothing crosses your mind which is a sin, and you quickly dismiss it? .

we're talking about Jesus.
not me.

if the thought of accepting satan's offers contrary to Divine Will crossed Christ's mind as an alternative, would He not have sinned?

anyway. we are not told what was in His mind.

we are however told He never sinned.

first off. This is just opinion. And may be true, may not be true.
If this is true, Satan would have known it, and would not have wasted his time. Satan is smarter than you think. How do you think he Got Eve to fall? .

EG: i don't see the temptation in the wilderness as a cliff hanger where Jesus may have failed.
i hardly see a comparison between eve and Jesus.

So Adam and Eve had a sinfull heart? Sorry. The flesh (sin nature) did not happen until after they sinned, yetr they were tempted.
I agree 100 %, If he did, his sacdrifice would have been useless, because he would not be a lamb without blemish.

again, Adam was 100% MAN.
not Deity.

Agree 1/2. Scripture said he had no sin. But it says he was tempted. If he was tempted. then temptation came upon him. Again, temptation is not sin. Doing the act by mind or hand is sin..

i suppose we're saying the same thing here at least.
He was tempted/tested. period.

If I see a lady and am momentarily tempted. That is not sin. If I act on it. it is sin (by thought or mind.) .

really?
momentarily tempted to what?
does it matter if it is momentarily?

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Again we agree. Not sure what your arguing here. we are in agreement.

i do believe we are in agreement.
love you bud.
zone.

(Daniel 9 is fulfilled EG)