Daniels 70 weeks

[DP]

No it doesn't.
They had NO part in the First resurrection!

You mean you're not able to think about the meaning of both John 5:28-29 and Rev.20:1-6 at the same time?

Before you got to Rev.20, you were supposed to have already studied Scripture like Eccl.12:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5; 1 Corinthians 15; 2 Corinthians 12; Matthew 10:28, etc.

We each have 3 parts to our being that God created us with:

1. flesh body (Paul's body of corruption, the image of the earthy)
2. spirit body (Paul's body of incorruption, the image of the heavenly)
3. soul (our Id, mind, person, the thing that is mortal that must put on immortality in Christ Jesus)

Nos. 2 & 3 are always together but can be separated from No.1.

TWO DEATHS:
1. flesh death (first death)
2. death of one's spirit with soul (the "second death")

Look in Revelation 20 and tell me where you see the FIRST DEATH happening.

After Christ's second coming, the ONLY DEATH remaining will be the "second death" which is defined in Rev.20 as the casting into the "lake of fire" at the GWT Judgment. What is it that is cast into that "lake of fire" at that "second death"? Jesus showed us in Matthew 10:28.

In 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4, Apostle Paul showed us from Isaiah 25 that those still alive on earth at Christ's return will be 'changed' "at the twinkling of an eye". Reason is, is because the end of this present world is also the end of man's flesh type body. In Christ's thousand years reign, we all... will be in the "spiritual body" type Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. That is... the resurrection type body. That is the only... way Christ's saints still alive on earth will be gathered with His asleep saints He brings with Him when He comes. But Isaiah 25, where Paul was teaching the death swallowed up idea, points to that change for all peoples on earth too, not just Christ's saints.

 

[DP]

there is NOTHING in Rev 20 that refers to an earthly kingdom. Christ reigns in Heaven with his martyrs and other Christians.
it is a new vision which recapitulates previous visions. The release of Satan is mentioned previously in chapter 9.

There is NO SUGGESTION that the Beast and False Prophet were sent to the Lake of Fire 1000 years before Satan. They were all sent around the same time.

Sorry but that's not Biblical. The events of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 for that time are... Biblical.

 

[DP]

Then go back to John 5...and understand that while there are many who have heard the VOICE of the SON OF GOD NOW and have a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION, a time will come when ALL will hear the VOICE of the SON OF GOD...(this is what is depicted in Revelation 20 also...the last judgment when those in the grave will rise and will be judged according to their works...
and if anyone's name is not found in the LAMB'S BOOK of LIFE...they will not have LIFE.

No, that ploy doesn't work.

That part in bold you're pulling from in John 5:28-29 is not... for the time AFTER Christ's thousand years reign when the GWT Judgment occurs. That John 5:28-29 Scripture is for the Day of Christ's 2nd coming, i.e., the Day of The Lord when the resurrection of both the Just and the wicked happens in order to start the 1,000 years of Rev.20.

(Somehow I think you well know this is the meaning of that John 5:28-29 Scripture about the wicked being raised also on the day of Christ's 2nd coming. That John 5 Scripture stands in your way with man's false tradition of the wicked not being resurrected until after the 1,000 years, doesn't it?)

 

[DP]

No it doesn't.
They had NO part in the First resurrection!
What are you saying?
They died...the birds ate their flesh...they didn't get cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet and the beast...they were however killed and had no part in the 1000 year reign OR the first resurrection.

When all in the graves (that is who had no part in the FIRST RESURRECTION) hear HIS VOICE and rise...it will be after the 1000 year reign

What is going on!?
Why is this confusing to YOU!?

Again, I'm not the one in confusion about those events. You are following a tradition, which is causing you to not understand it as written.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

This above verse is 'resurrection' timing. It is a specific "hour" that occurs when Jesus' 2nd coming happens. That is when ALL... in the graves will hear Christ's Voice and will arise. We KNOW that is NOT... for after the 1,000 years of Revelation 20, BECAUSE... the NEXT VERSE SHOWS the "resurrection of life" happening...

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

SAME BIBLE WITNESS IS GIVEN IN DANIEL 12:

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Notice that happens at the END of the great tribulation (time of trouble).

Here it is again, another description of that event He gave...

Matt 25:31-33
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
KJV

That also is about the resurrection of both the Just and the wicked per John 5:28-29 that happens on the day of His 2nd coming.

 

[DP]

No it won't.
No more signs.

The only sign that will be visibly manifest is during the full blown tribulation after his delay of "21 days" where after that time it will be evident to Daniel's people that HE is truly fighting the battle...

Who's talking about 'signs'? I'm not!

Literal changes upon the earth will start with Christ's 2nd coming. God's literal River of the waters of life and the many trees on either side of that River, will be manifest on earth during Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect, on earth (Rev.5:10). Ezekiel 47 reveals that about God's River and the Tree of Life there, not just metaphors, but real literal things.

 

[DP]

Don't you? Interpret the cloudy passages with the clear. In 1st Corinthians 15, when Christ comes back, He will end all rule and authority and hand the kingdom over to God, there is no 1000 year literal reign after that.

Sorry, but you ask me about interpretation, and then you make an obvious error in your interpretation of the 1 Cor.15 Scripture. When reading, we have to make sure we're comprehending all the subject that's given, and weigh it...

1 Cor 15:23-28
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

It's about Christ's Salvation, and the order of events. Christ Jesus is the Firstfruit of the resurrection. Then He saves those of His at His 2nd coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Right there in verse 24, it is pointing directly to Christ's reign over the nations with a rod of iron. That reign was described in Ps.2, Matt.25, Rev.5, and in greater detail in Rev.20 to last 1,000 years over the wicked. And there is a 'condition' given that MUST happen first before He delivers the kingdom to The Father. That condition there as written is, "... when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

Here's an example of an event in that future 1,000 years reign over the wicked...

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

Jesus spoke to His elect of the Church of Philadelphia. The ONLY time that can happen is during Christ's future reign with a rod of iron over the nations. It certainly has not... happened yet today.

25 For He must reign, till he hath put all enemies under His feet.

That Rev.3:9 example is exactly... what this v.25 is about, Christ reigning in the future even over the wicked of "the synagogue of Satan" and making them bow to Him worship at the feet of His elect.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

At the GWT Judgment is when death and hell are destroyed in the lake of fire. So the 1,000 years reign must happen first.

27 For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith, all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.

God The Father put all things under Christ's feet. But The Father is excepted in that time of Christ's future reign over the wicked with a rod of iron. The Father will not be here on earth de facto in that time, but Jesus will be. All will bow in worship to Jesus and see His face in that 1,000 years timing.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

When the 1,000 years reign is over, and death and hell and the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire, then Jesus will deliver up the Kingdom to The Father, and the full Godhead will return to earth, the new heavens and new earth will then be established.

 

[DP]

Not on the same day. please explain your reasoning in suggesting those who have a part in the first resurrection and those who rise after the 1000 year reign are on the same day. Clearly revelation 20:5 says otherwise that only those who had s part in the first resurrection (through faith in JESUS) reign with him but the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 year reign. And yes. The 1000 year reign has not yet begun which is why again the GOSPEL is preached now

You won't understand what I say about it until you first rightly interpret the John 5:28-29 verses how they are written, instead of heeding a tradition of man that goes against it.

You clearly don't understand what the events in Rev.20 are about.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

there is NOTHING in Rev 20 that refers to an earthly kingdom. Christ reigns in Heaven with his martyrs and other Christians.
it is a new vision which recapitulates previous visions. The release of Satan is mentioned previously in chapter 9.

There is NO SUGGESTION that the Beast and False Prophet were sent to the Lake of Fire 1000 years before Satan. They were all sent around the same time.

Sorry but that's not Biblical. The events of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 for that time are... Biblical.

lol where do you think I got it from

Ezekiel 40-47 has already been fulfilled, it just you cant see it,

 

[valiant]

You won't understand what I say about it until you first rightly interpret the John 5:28-29 verses how they are written, instead of heeding a tradition of man that goes against it.

You clearly don't understand what the events in Rev.20 are about.

well we think that we do know what Revelation 20.4-5 are aboutThey are about the Lord Jesus Christ reigning in Heaven with His dead saints who are SOULS. They have not yet risen.

They had their part in the FIRST resurrection when they were raised with Christ as explained in John 5.25-27 before the final resurrection in verse 28-29.. Its simple really. you just don't understand the NT

 

[miknik5]

You mean you're not able to think about the meaning of both John 5:28-29 and Rev.20:1-6 at the same time?

Before you got to Rev.20, you were supposed to have already studied Scripture like Eccl.12:5-7; 2 Corinthians 5; 1 Corinthians 15; 2 Corinthians 12; Matthew 10:28, etc.

We each have 3 parts to our being that God created us with:

1. flesh body (Paul's body of corruption, the image of the earthy)
2. spirit body (Paul's body of incorruption, the image of the heavenly)
3. soul (our Id, mind, person, the thing that is mortal that must put on immortality in Christ Jesus)

Nos. 2 & 3 are always together but can be separated from No.1.

TWO DEATHS:
1. flesh death (first death)
2. death of one's spirit with soul (the "second death")

Look in Revelation 20 and tell me where you see the FIRST DEATH happening.

After Christ's second coming, the ONLY DEATH remaining will be the "second death" which is defined in Rev.20 as the casting into the "lake of fire" at the GWT Judgment. What is it that is cast into that "lake of fire" at that "second death"? Jesus showed us in Matthew 10:28.

In 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4, Apostle Paul showed us from Isaiah 25 that those still alive on earth at Christ's return will be 'changed' "at the twinkling of an eye". Reason is, is because the end of this present world is also the end of man's flesh type body. In Christ's thousand years reign, we all... will be in the "spiritual body" type Paul taught in 1 Cor.15. That is... the resurrection type body. That is the only... way Christ's saints still alive on earth will be gathered with His asleep saints He brings with Him when He comes. But Isaiah 25, where Paul was teaching the death swallowed up idea, points to that change for all peoples on earth too, not just Christ's saints.

Well, I also don't overlook the mark of a man...
Do you?

Two kingdoms
Two kings
Two feasts

Either in by THE DOOR unto THE KINGDOM of GOD
Or outside THE DOOR unto THE KINGDOM of GOD.

 

[miknik5]

Nobody told you to separate man...man IS body, soul and spirit.
Now if man hasn't been reborn and marked as belonging to GOD...then he is unregenerated man and has not passed through the LORD'S SABBATH (day)...

Do you understand what I am saying?

If not, look to "circumcision" and it's symbolizing a covenanted man marked as a NEW/EIGHTH day CREATION...

6 can't be 8 unless he passes through 7

 

[miknik5]

Who's talking about 'signs'? I'm not!

Literal changes upon the earth will start with Christ's 2nd coming. God's literal River of the waters of life and the many trees on either side of that River, will be manifest on earth during Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect, on earth (Rev.5:10). Ezekiel 47 reveals that about God's River and the Tree of Life there, not just metaphors, but real literal things.

Nothing can "change" until HE comes and makes EVERYTHING NEW...
This is why all of creation was subject to vanity so that they also would be made subject to HIM and wait by THAT HOPE which is directed in and on HIM...

HE is before all things...so that HE has the preeminence over all things created...and creation can't be "changed" until HE rolls everything up like an old garment...and makes all things NEW...at HIS COMING...

 

[DP]

lol where do you think I got it from

Ezekiel 40-47 has already been fulfilled, it just you cant see it,

I realize your Amillenialist bents, wrongly thinking there is no such thing as Christ's future 1,000 years reign on the earth with His elect. I'll never agree to those doctrines of men you espouse though.

 

[DP]

well we think that we do know what Revelation 20.4-5 are aboutThey are about the Lord Jesus Christ reigning in Heaven with His dead saints who are SOULS. They have not yet risen.

They had their part in the FIRST resurrection when they were raised with Christ as explained in John 5.25-27 before the final resurrection in verse 28-29.. Its simple really. you just don't understand the NT

The John 5:24-25 events happened at Christ's death and resurrection...

John 5:24-25
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
KJV

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
KJV

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
KJV

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
KJV

 

[DP]

But the John 5:28-28 events are still yet to happen...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Acts 24:14-15
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
KJV

 

[DP]

Nobody told you to separate man...man IS body, soul and spirit.
Now if man hasn't been reborn and marked as belonging to GOD...then he is unregenerated man and has not passed through the LORD'S SABBATH (day)...

Do you understand what I am saying?

If not, look to "circumcision" and it's symbolizing a covenanted man marked as a NEW/EIGHTH day CREATION...

6 can't be 8 unless he passes through 7

I understand that you can't leave your fleshy reasoning on some Biblical matters, this one about the resurrection being one of them.

Early on in Eccl.12:5-7, God through Solomon showed us what happens when our flesh body dies. Our spirit is separated from our flesh and goes back to God. But our flesh body goes back to the earthly material elements, where it came from. Even in John 3, Jesus showed the flesh is one thing, but spirit is another. In Matt.10:28 He showed us how our soul can... be separated from our flesh body, with our soul continuing which agrees with Eccl.12. Also in Eccl.12, we were even shown about a "silver cord" that when it is "loosed" (severed), that is how our spirit parts from our flesh body. That spirit part is not simply an animate thing which all living things have, it includes our soul, our Id, our mind, our person. That's what your spirit/soul is, it's the real part of your being. God simply stuck it into a flesh body when He created you (us).

Since you apparently think after Christ's 2nd coming there will still be people in flesh bodies, then that actually means you don't believe the John 5:28-29 verses about the resurrection happening then as written (nor the Dan.12:2 Scripture which is about the same subject).

 

[ZEEK]

But if you are saying Daniel 12 is not completed, or that there is some future tribulation, you are in error DP. This is all done and dusted by AD 73.

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 24:21[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For at that time there will be great suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.[/FONT]

The time Daniel is referring to is clearly the 70th Week, which is clearly finished.

But the John 5:28-28 events are still yet to happen...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

Acts 24:14-15
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
KJV

 

[miknik5]

I understand that you can't leave your fleshy reasoning on some Biblical matters, this one about the resurrection being one of them.

Early on in Eccl.12:5-7, God through Solomon showed us what happens when our flesh body dies. Our spirit is separated from our flesh and goes back to God. But our flesh body goes back to the earthly material elements, where it came from. Even in John 3, Jesus showed the flesh is one thing, but spirit is another. In Matt.10:28 He showed us how our soul can... be separated from our flesh body, with our soul continuing which agrees with Eccl.12. Also in Eccl.12, we were even shown about a "silver cord" that when it is "loosed" (severed), that is how our spirit parts from our flesh body. That spirit part is not simply an animate thing which all living things have, it includes our soul, our Id, our mind, our person. That's what your spirit/soul is, it's the real part of your being. God simply stuck it into a flesh body when He created you (us).

Since you apparently think after Christ's 2nd coming there will still be people in flesh bodies, then that actually means you don't believe the John 5:28-29 verses about the resurrection happening then as written (nor the Dan.12:2 Scripture which is about the same subject).

Go back to Valiant's post. He stated exactly what I believe and what I mean.
What you have posted here and assumed of me, is exactly that...what you have assumed of me...

well we think that we do know what Revelation 20.4-5 are aboutThey are about the Lord Jesus Christ reigning in Heaven with His dead saints who are SOULS. They have not yet risen.

They had their part in the FIRST resurrection when they were raised with Christ as explained in John 5.25-27 before the final resurrection in verse 28-29.. Its simple really. you just don't understand the NT

 

[miknik5]

Dp?

Go back and read John 5, all of it...because CHRIST clearly makes a distinction between those who have heard the VOICE of THE SON of GOD now...and those who have, have already passed from death to life...

And then there will come a time when all in the grave will hear the VOICE of THE SON of GOD...and be judged according to their works...

 

[miknik5]

John 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.