Daniels 70 weeks

[miknik5]

I'm sorry, I just think all that mystical philosophy thinking is clouding your understanding. We are to speak plainly to the brethren, not in riddles.

John 5:24-27
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.

That first example above happened at Christ's death and resurrection. According to Peter, Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison that were disobedient back in the OT. Isaiah 42 reveals that Jesus would do this, and lead prisoners out of the prison house who sat in darkness.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

This Scripture above has not... happened yet today. It has NOT started. It is ONLY for the future time of Christ's 2nd coming when the dead will be resurrected. To say that has already happened is to lie, and say the resurrection is either already begun today, or is already past.

That John 5:28-29 example shows BOTH resurrection types happening on the day of Christ's return. It is NOT showing the resurrection of life ("first resurrection" of Rev.20) only, but also the "resurrection of damnation" on that SAME DAY of Christ's 2nd coming!

That means NO... later resurrection of the wicked after the 1,000 years. That John 5:28-29 Scripture by our Lord Jesus rejects the pop belief of the wicked being resurrected after... the 1,000 years.

Have you been following the back and forth exchange? apparently you haven't. I know the difference between those who have a part in the first resurrection and those who rise in the last day. Please refer AGAIN to ALL of Revelation 20 and do not put words in my mouth. There's a difference between those who have heard his voice before the 1000 year reign began who indeed have a part in the first resurrection (rev 20:4-6) and those who hear his voice afterwards and rise at the end and after the 1000 year reign/(after satan has been let loose again ) who are judged and DIDNT have a part in the first resurrection (rev 20:11-15)

 

[miknik5]

If you didn't understand what I was saying you should have asked instead of suggesting what I said

 

[miknik5]

Not on the same day. please explain your reasoning in suggesting those who have a part in the first resurrection and those who rise after the 1000 year reign are on the same day. Clearly revelation 20:5 says otherwise that only those who had s part in the first resurrection (through faith in JESUS) reign with him but the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 year reign. And yes. The 1000 year reign has not yet begun which is why again the GOSPEL is preached now

 

[Bookends]

It definitely is not made up, and it IS... covered in the NT, just probably not where you expect...

Heb 8:6-13
6 But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in My covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
KJV

Forgiveness of sins, putting God's laws in our hearts and minds (vial The Holy Spirit), the old covenant vanishing away, what's not about that concerning the New Covenant?

This is the New Covenant in which those in Christ are in. This is the kingdom Christ set up. Again, the Church is a Continuation of the true Israel.

 

[gotime]

Looking for others input on Daniels prophecy shown below


Seventy Weeks of Prophecy (Daniel 9:20-27)


Chapter 9 verse 25 tells us that the event that will trigger the 490 years is a decree (see Neh 2:5) permitting the Jews to go back to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. (It is interesting that the event that will trigger the last seven years of this period will be the covenant of the Antichrist to protect the Jews. We find a decree at the beginning and at the end of the 490 years.) History tells us there were four different decrees relating to Jerusalem: Cyrus, Darius, and Artaxerxes all made decrees concerning the rebuilding of the temple (Ezra 1; 6, and 7); and Artaxerxes decreed that Nehemiah could return to rebuild the walls (Neh 2). This was in 445 B.C., and it is the decree Dan 9:25 is talking about; it took place nearly 100 years after Daniel received the message from God. Gabriel said that there would be a total of sixty-nine weeks, seven and sixty-two, between the giving of the decree and the arrival of Messiah, the Prince, in Jerusalem (69 x 7 = 483 years). Keep in mind that "prophetic years" in the Bible are not 365 days, but 360 days long. It has been calculated by scholars that there were 483 prophetic years between the decree in 445 B.C. and the day that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (cf. The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson, Kregel, 1967).


But Gabriel divided these 483 years into two parts-seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49 years), and sixty-two weeks (62 x 7 = 434 years). Why? Well, it took forty-nine years to rebuild Jerusalem, and this was done (as Gabriel said) "in troublesome times." Read Nehemiah and see how difficult a task it was to restore the city. Then, 434 years later we come to Messiah, the Prince, who is "cut off' (His death on the cross) for the sins of the world. It was His death on the cross that accomplished the purposes given in v. 24. What followed His death? Did Israel accept Him and His message? No. They lied about Him, persecuted His messengers, stoned Stephen, and refused to acknowledge His kingship. What happened? Rome came and destroyed the city and wrecked the temple. The nation "cut off" Jesus Christ, so He cut them off from being a nation. Until May 14, 1948, Israel was not a free nation.


Rome is called "the people of the prince that shall come." Who is this prince? Not "Messiah the Prince," because that refers to Christ. "The prince that shall come" is Antichrist. He will be the leader of the restored Roman Empire. So, the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was but an illustration of a future invasion and destruction to be led by Antichrist. This prince will make an agreement with the Jews to protect them from the other nations, and this agreement will be set for seven years. This final seven years is the completion of Daniel's 490-year period. Between the death of Christ and the signing of this covenant you have the entire Age of the Church, a "great parenthesis" in God's program. The 490 years are in operation only when Israel is in God's will as God's people. When Israel crucified Christ, she was set aside and the "prophetic clock" stopped ticking. But when the Antichrist signs his pact with Israel, then the last seven years of Daniel's "seventy weeks" will start being fulfilled. This seven-year period is known as the Tribulation, or the time of Jacob's trouble. It is described in Rev 6-19.


After three and a half years, Gog and her allies will invade Palestine (see Ezek 38-39), and God will judge them. Antichrist will invade the land, break his covenant, and set himself up as world dictator. He will stop all worship at the Jewish temple (see 2 Thess 2) and force the world to worship him and his image. This is the abomination of desolation (see Matt 24:15; John 5:43; Rev 13:1). How will this period end? Jesus Christ will return to earth, meet the rebel armies at Armageddon, and defeat them (Rev 19:11-21).

With all dues respect I think your date is wrong for the beginning. It will be noted that the decree is not only to rebuild but also to restore as it is written:

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

This command is given in Ezra as you have mentioned but it is clear that the decree is actually one from God not man. Men just carry out Gods decree. Note:

Ezr 6:14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

It would be well to note that the commandment of God employs the commandment of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes. Not one of them but all three fulfil the decree of God.

That it can not start from Cyrus or Darius is evident being that it is Gods decree and God's is all three. Thus it must and can only start or be fulfilled as the decree of God when all three are given. Thus at the last one Artaxerxes is the decree of God fulfilled. And Ezra 7 gives us clear timing on this as it is written:

Ezr 7:6 This Ezra went up from Babylon; and he was a ready scribe in the law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given: and the king granted him all his request, according to the hand of the LORD his God upon him.
Ezr 7:7 And there went up some of the children of Israel, and of the priests, and the Levites, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, unto Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king.

History is clear on this point, 457AD. This can be the only option is we take into account the above scriptures.

This date also matches with the timing of Jesus baptism in the 15th year of Tiberius in Luke 3. One could keep going but Ill leave it there.

BLessings.

 

[DP]

there is NOTHING in Rev 20 that refers to an earthly kingdom. Christ reigns in Heaven with his martyrs and other Christians.
it is a new vision which recapitulates previous visions. The release of Satan is mentioned previously in chapter 9.

There is NO SUGGESTION that the Beast and False Prophet were sent to the Lake of Fire 1000 years before Satan. They were all sent around the same time.

The "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" of Rev.20 is on earth, and it will be protected by The Father in Heaven while Christ and His saints are in that camp ruling over the nations also on earth. The latter Ezek. chapters actually hint to our Lord Jesus going back and forth between heaven and earth.

The loosing of Satan in Rev.9 is about the tribulation timing. The loosing of Satan in Rev.20 is for a 1,000 years after the end of the tribulation.

Rev.19 is emphatic that ONLY the beast and false prophet go into the lake of fire at the time of Christ's 2nd coming. Satan, the dragon, is left out of that event. Satan is preserved for a 1,000 years before he goes into the lake of fire, as written in Rev.20.

 

[DP]

When HE opens their eyes, they will go out like calves released from their stalls sir...when HE removes their sin in ONE DAY and opens up a fountain of cleanliness for the inhabitants of David.

That metaphor is symbolic of CHRIST and GOD'S FIRST LOVE, "Israel", recognizes HIM as THEIR MESSIAH...

There's more substance to Christ's Salvation than metaphors. His Salvation will involve literal manifestations, not just mystical expressionism.

 

[DP]

Have you been following the back and forth exchange? apparently you haven't. I know the difference between those who have a part in the first resurrection and those who rise in the last day. Please refer AGAIN to ALL of Revelation 20 and do not put words in my mouth. There's a difference between those who have heard his voice before the 1000 year reign began who indeed have a part in the first resurrection (rev 20:4-6) and those who hear his voice afterwards and rise at the end and after the 1000 year reign/(after satan has been let loose again ) who are judged and DIDNT have a part in the first resurrection (rev 20:11-15)

There is no... literal raising of the dead after John 5:28-29 timing. That's why most everything you've said above is scrap.

At the GWT judgment "the dead" stand in judgment before God's Throne, to see if their names are written in the book of life. It does not mean they are then 'raised', even though it says things like the sea gave up the dead.

After Jesus returns, "the dead" are in that time... the "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29! They were already raised on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

They are CALLED... "the dead" in Rev.20:5 because... their souls are STILL LIABLE TO PERISH later in the lake of fire after the 1,000 years.

Thus the dead that stand at the GWT judgment are those SAME... souls without Christ that go through the 1,000 years reign! They were resurrected on the day of Christ's return like John 5 says.

Don't you guys remember John 3, where our Lord Jesus that to enter into the Kingdom of God one must be 'born again' of The Spirit and of water?

The "dead" of Rev.20 are NOT literally flesh dead still in graves, they are like walking dead, like how Jesus described the blind Pharisees being like whited tombs full of dead men's bones.

 

[DP]

This is the New Covenant in which those in Christ are in. This is the kingdom Christ set up. Again, the Church is a Continuation of the true Israel.

Yes, I agree Christ's Church is a continuation of God's true Israel. Just so happens, that also involves the chosen seed of Israel. Don't you recall Rom.11 about the remnant of the seed of election which God preserved in The Gospel?

 

[DP]

Not on the same day. please explain your reasoning in suggesting those who have a part in the first resurrection and those who rise after the 1000 year reign are on the same day. Clearly revelation 20:5 says otherwise that only those who had s part in the first resurrection (through faith in JESUS) reign with him but the rest of the dead lived not again until after the 1000 year reign. And yes. The 1000 year reign has not yet begun which is why again the GOSPEL is preached now

John 5:28-29 is very plain.

It is declaring ALL... in the graves will hear His Voice at the resurrection. That's on the "last day" of THIS world, not after the 1,000 year reign which comes later.

ALL in the graves hear His Voice at His second coming to end the future tribulation.

Then those John 5 verses declare those who did good go into the "resurrection of life"...

... and, those who did evil go into the "resurrection of damnation".

RIGHT THEN. BOTH RESURRECTIONS ARE MANIFEST AT CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.

That means the wicked are already raised to go through the 1,000 years reign of Christ and His elect, and that's who those nations of Rev.20 are, i.e., "the dead", meaning spiritually dead in their souls being without Christ and still subject to the "second death".

Don't you guys believe what you read? That is all written.

 

[Bookends]

Yes, I agree Christ's Church is a continuation of God's true Israel. Just so happens, that also involves the chosen seed of Israel. Don't you recall Rom.11 about the remnant of the seed of election which God preserved in The Gospel?

Yes, I been through all this with EG before, God has not forgotten Israel/ the Jew, as long as they live the gospel is always available to them. The calling of God to them is to believe, to see God's mercy, it is this calling that is irrevocable. We should never look down at the Jew or think of ourselves more highly then them, for God has not written off the individual Jew. It has nothing to do with nation of Israel receiving the economy of God again.

The can be grafted into the ONE TREE again, the cultivated olive tree...one tree!!!

 

[miknik5]

John 5:28-29 is very plain.

It is declaring ALL... in the graves will hear His Voice at the resurrection. That's on the "last day" of THIS world, not after the 1,000 year reign which comes later.

ALL in the graves hear His Voice at His second coming to end the future tribulation.

Then those John 5 verses declare those who did good go into the "resurrection of life"...

... and, those who did evil go into the "resurrection of damnation".

RIGHT THEN. BOTH RESURRECTIONS ARE MANIFEST AT CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.

That means the wicked are already raised to go through the 1,000 years reign of Christ and His elect, and that's who those nations of Rev.20 are, i.e., "the dead", meaning spiritually dead in their souls being without Christ and still subject to the "second death".

Don't you guys believe what you read? That is all written.

No it doesn't.
They had NO part in the First resurrection!
What are you saying?
They died...the birds ate their flesh...they didn't get cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet and the beast...they were however killed and had no part in the 1000 year reign OR the first resurrection.

When all in the graves (that is who had no part in the FIRST RESURRECTION) hear HIS VOICE and rise...it will be after the 1000 year reign


What is going on!?
Why is this confusing to YOU!?

 

[miknik5]

Revelation 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Now continue on in reading Revelation 20:
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[miknik5]

There's more substance to Christ's Salvation than metaphors. His Salvation will involve literal manifestations, not just mystical expressionism.

No it won't.
No more signs.

The only sign that will be visibly manifest is during the full blown tribulation after his delay of "21 days" where after that time it will be evident to Daniel's people that HE is truly fighting the battle...

 

[Bookends]

John 5:28-29 is very plain.

It is declaring ALL... in the graves will hear His Voice at the resurrection. That's on the "last day" of THIS world, not after the 1,000 year reign which comes later.

ALL in the graves hear His Voice at His second coming to end the future tribulation.

Then those John 5 verses declare those who did good go into the "resurrection of life"...

... and, those who did evil go into the "resurrection of damnation".

RIGHT THEN. BOTH RESURRECTIONS ARE MANIFEST AT CHRIST'S SECOND COMING.

That means the wicked are already raised to go through the 1,000 years reign of Christ and His elect, and that's who those nations of Rev.20 are, i.e., "the dead", meaning spiritually dead in their souls being without Christ and still subject to the "second death".

Don't you guys believe what you read? That is all written.

Don't you? Interpret the cloudy passages with the clear. In 1st Corinthians 15, when Christ comes back, He will end all rule and authority and hand the kingdom over to God, there is no 1000 year literal reign after that. Christ is ruling now from Heaven, over His priestly nation the Church, we are ambassadors of this kingdom. Christ is ruling in the midst of His enemies just like the psalmist (110:2) said He would. Not only that, but Peter said Christ was raised to sit on David's throne, which means Christ is a descent of David and sitting on the Kingdom's throne, it's in heaven. The throne was never David's, it always belonged to God as stated in the O/T.

 

[miknik5]

HE already said a wicked generation looks for a sign but none shall be given it except the sign of Jonah.

I tell you who will be literally manifesting signs...and that is the false christ...(the beast)...and during a time of evil, those who do not know the TRUTH will look to this false "christ" as their "savior"...because they will be looking for a temporal "healing" for all the trouble which will come upon the earth in that day..

 

[Bookends]

Ok you guys are making my head hurt...I'm out...

It'll all work out in the end according to God's good will and plan.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No it doesn't.
They had NO part in the First resurrection!
What are you saying?
They died...the birds ate their flesh...they didn't get cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet and the beast...they were however killed and had no part in the 1000 year reign OR the first resurrection.

When all in the graves (that is who had no part in the FIRST RESURRECTION) hear HIS VOICE and rise...it will be after the 1000 year reign


What is going on!?
Why is this confusing to YOU!?

Hello miknic5,

The reason it is confusing to him and what he says doesn't make sense to you, is because he is an amillennialist. They spiritualize most, if not all of unfulfilled prophecy. Where you read Satan being bound in the Abyss for a thousand years, they do not believe it as being a literal thousand years, but an unknown number. Nor do they believe in a literal binding of Satan in the Abyss for that thousand years, but reduce it to him have been bound at the cross. When you bring up any biblical end-time topic, they already have a pre-packaged explanation and therefore whatever you have to say goes in one ear and out the other. You can't use scripture to prove your point with an amillennialist and that because they spiritualize end-time events. In other words to them, what the word says literally is not what it means. Their error of course is the spiritualizing of the unfulfilled prophecy. They neglect to take into account that all previous prophesies were fulfilled literally, not spiritually. And therefore, all future prophecy will also be literally fulfilled.

 

[popeye]

Hello what u key

God bless you bro.

 

[DP]

Yes, I been through all this with EG before, God has not forgotten Israel/ the Jew, as long as they live the gospel is always available to them. The calling of God to them is to believe, to see God's mercy, it is this calling that is irrevocable. We should never look down at the Jew or think of ourselves more highly then them, for God has not written off the individual Jew. It has nothing to do with nation of Israel receiving the economy of God again.

The can be grafted into the ONE TREE again, the cultivated olive tree...one tree!!!

Yet I still don't agree with your reasoning on the title of Jews, because the seed of Israel according to the election of grace which God preserved in The Gospel actually represent the majority of the house of Israel, the ten tribes, along with a remnant of the Jews.

When you say Jews, you're thinking all Israelites, which is an idea from men.

When I say Jews, I'm thinking only the separated house of Judah (3 tribes) as written in God's Word.

The Jews are the main ones Paul was talking about that God blinded so The Gospel would also go to the Gentiles. That was a spinoff of God causing them to keep their Israelite heritage, while the ten tribes lost theirs.