Daniels 70 weeks

[miknik5]

Hello miknik5,

The battle of Armageddon takes place in the exact chronological order as it appears in Revelation, which is after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, which completes God's wrath and which ends the seven years of Dan.9:27 and fulfills Dan.2:31-45 with the dismantling of all human governments. After Christ returns, the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20), those kings, their generals and armies are killed by the double-edged sword (Rev.19:21), which is symbolic for the word of God and then Satan is thrown into the Abyss and restricted their during the thousand year reign of Christ (Rev.20:1-3). At the end of the thousand years Satan is released from the Abyss (Rev.20:7) and he gathers the nations collectively called Gog and Magog who rebel against God and are destroyed by fire (Rev.20:8-9). Satan is then captured and thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet will have been thrown a thousand years earlier. After that is the resurrection of the unrighteous dead at the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15), which is followed by the creation of the new atmosphere, new earth and new Jerusalem which takes place during the eternal state, which is what Rev.21 & 22 is describing.

Then there was no need for the unclean spirits to come out of the mouths of the false prophet, beast and dragon.

Revelation 16:
12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Then we hear about the seventh bowl of wrath...



Do you believe the BOOK of REVELATION was given in chronological order also?

 

[Ahwatukee]

1000 year reign and with it the last of the harvest of the earth.

There is no harvest at the end of the thousand years. That resurrection will be those who did not share in the first resurrection and over whom the second death will have power over. A glaring proof of this is that, these people are coming out of Hades, which is a place of torment in flame.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Then there was no need for the unclean spirits to come out of the mouths of the false prophet, beast and dragon.

Why would you say that? Who do you think is gathering the kings of the earth to the battle? Those three demonic beings will be the ones who will gather them for battle just as the scripture states.

 

[miknik5]

There is no harvest at the end of the thousand years. That resurrection will be those who did not share in the first resurrection and over whom the second death will have power over. A glaring proof of this is that, these people are coming out of Hades, which is a place of torment in flame.

Yes there is...otherwise there would have been no need for satan to be released for a time..And those men who will join with satan and rebel against THE LORD (and even during a time of peace, non the less) will make manifest that they had no other to blame their rebellion and iniquity on but themselves.

God can see into one day, one thousand years and already knew what is inside of all men and what the outcome would be...

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'



Who did you think Satan was "gathering" for the great battle?

 

[miknik5]

Why would you say that? Who do you think is gathering the kings of the earth to the battle? Those three demonic beings will be the ones who will gather them for battle just as the scripture states.

Again, do you believe that the BOOK of REVELATION is laid out chronologically as well?
There is no mention of anyone else being cast into the lake of fire before the 1000 year reign but the false prophet and the beast.

Revelation 19And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

The others who had a part with this evil will rise in the last day and will be judged. Along with everyone else who can't discern and make a right judgment between the WORKS of GOD from the works of the "wrong, murderous, lying spirit of satan"


There's a difference between those who have a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION and those who don't.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation 16:12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

The drying up of the Euphrates does not negate those demonic beings from gathering the other kings of the earth. And it does not say that they are not say that they are not the ones gathering them.

Do you believe the BOOK of REVELATION was given in chronological order also?

After studying Revelation for over 40 years, I know of assuredly that is in chronological order, as I have tried to place the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment in every other order, but all it does is make a mess. If you were to envision the scroll with its seven seals, it would be set up so that the seals would have to be opened in order. That said, you couldn't open say, the 4th seal first and that because seals 1 through 3 as well as 5 through 7 would keep the fourth seal from being opened. And the reason for this is that, usually a scroll with a seal was done with wax and a signet, where the wax adheres to the surround surface of the scroll. This is why the seals are opened 1 through 7 and that because one would have to rip open the scroll, breaking the other seals, if they were to start anywhere but with the first seal. Following the seals are the trumpets and following them are the bowls, with the seventh bowl completing God's wrath.

Therefore, the book of Revelation should be read in the order that God put it in.

 

[miknik5]

As soon as Daniel had begun to pray, the angel Gabriel was sent to him, but he was detained by the prince of Persia, which is not speaking about the human prince, but spiritually of that fall angel and the demonic beings with him. In other words, Gabriel was being held back by spiritual warfare. It wasn't until Michael came to help that he was able to get through with the message to Daniel.

Nope. Not Gabriel.that wasn't the one detained.
The one detained was the MAN IN LINEN who instructed Gabriel from the beginning and who is given more honor and authority over Gabriel and Michael.

You'll have to explain who is speaking to Daniel in Daniel 8:


15And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. 17So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[miknik5]

The drying up of the Euphrates does not negate those demonic beings from gathering the other kings of the earth. And it does not say that they are not say that they are not the ones gathering them.




After studying Revelation for over 40 years, I know of assuredly that is in chronological order, as I have tried to place the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment in every other order, but all it does is make a mess. If you were to envision the scroll with its seven seals, it would be set up so that the seals would have to be opened in order. That said, you couldn't open say, the 4th seal first and that because seals 1 through 3 as well as 5 through 7 would keep the fourth seal from being opened. And the reason for this is that, usually a scroll with a seal was done with wax and a signet, where the wax adheres to the surround surface of the scroll. This is why the seals are opened 1 through 7 and that because one would have to rip open the scroll, breaking the other seals, if they were to start anywhere but with the first seal. Following the seals are the trumpets and following them are the bowls, with the seventh bowl completing God's wrath.

Therefore, the book of Revelation should be read in the order that God put it in.

Okay, in light of these unclean spirits going out in Revelation 16 and the truth that only the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire, where are those men who had a part in iniquity?
They are judged and have no part in the 1000 year reign...they are not a part of those who have a part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION as those who will reign over CHRIST'S HOUSE...
These are men who know THE LORD and know HIS SPIRIT because they have been born of HIS SPIRIT and have grown in their knowledge of HIM...they are ruling a people who just came out of a time like none other and yet think it okay to rebel?

Remember Zechariah 13, that anyone who prophecies again, "the LORD said" will be thrust through, even by their own parents? Because HE is ruling through HIS BODY of FAITHFUL PRIESTS and they have the nerve to say something that the LORD said to them "exclusively"?
No, rather all should say one to another, come let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, HE will teach us HIS WAYS...

But when satan is let loose, AGAIN, he goes out and gathers men for the great battle...by his spirit.
And satan, the great imitator can only manifest himself in piecemeal...false prophet/false christ.
his spirit will enter into the bodies of those men who during a time of peace like non other, will not understand the TRUTH(S) of GOD and will, in foolishness and in the spirit of the wrong father, go out and rebel against THE HOLY PEOPLE of GOD...

And then CHRIST will destroy them and ALL the VESSELS will then and ONLY then be marked HOLY TO GOD...


Second harvest.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There is no mention of anyone else being cast into the lake of fire before the 1000 year reign but the false prophet and the beast.

You are correct, the beast and the false prophet are the first to be thrown into the lake of fire. What does that have to do with the chorological order?

The others who had a part with this evil will rise in the last day and will be judged. Along with everyone else who can't discern and make a right judgment between the WORKS of GOD from the works of the "wrong, murderous, lying spirit of satan"

Who are the others and what are you referring to as "the last day?"

There's a difference between those who have a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION and those who don't.

Yes, I agree! There is a very big difference between those who take part in the first resurrection, which the second death has no power over, opposed to those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, who are the unrighteous dead who will have been accumulating in Sheol/Hades from the beginning of history.

 

[miknik5]

Please re read Daniel 10
The one detained is NOT Gabriel

 

[miknik5]

You are correct, the beast and the false prophet are the first to be thrown into the lake of fire. What does that have to do with the chorological order?



Who are the others and what are you referring to as "the last day?"



Yes, I agree! There is a very big difference between those who take part in the first resurrection, which the second death has no power over, opposed to those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, who are the unrighteous dead who will have been accumulating in Sheol/Hades from the beginning of history.

It has to do with the truth that the spirits came out of their mouths before they were thrown into the lake of fire. And will
be gathered for the great battle..

And also note what they were judged for...for NOT believing the TESTIMONY of JESUS and for doing evil against those who testified to THE TRUTH of JESUS...

The rest of the dead are those who died yes...but had no part in outwardly rebelling and fighting against the TRUTH of GOD and the TESTIMONY of JESUS>

Please read Revelation 20 chronologically and again is it before or after the 1000 year reign that these men who have died are resurrected?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Okay, in light of these unclean spirits going out in Revelation 16 and the truth that only the false prophet and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire, where are those men who had a part in iniquity?

By "those men who had a part in the iniquity" if you are speaking about the kings, their generals and their armies, they will be killed by that doubled-edged sword and the birds will eat their flesh, while their spirits/souls will go down into Hades and will remain there until the thousand years is over. After the thousand years they will be resurrected with all of the other unrighteous dead that will have been accumulating since the beginning of history and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment and will be held accountable for every sin and every idle word they ever spoke.

But when Satan is let loose, AGAIN, he goes out and gathers men for the great battle...by his spirit

Scripture makes very clear that Satan is not released until after the thousand years is over. Therefore, that army--Gog and Magog--are not gathered until he is released, which again is at the end of the thousand years. When those demons go and gather the kings, their generals and armies, this takes place right when Jesus returns to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, which is described in detail in Rev.19:11-21)

And satan, the great imitator can only manifest himself in piecemeal...false prophet/false Christ.

The false Christ will be controlled, not by Satan, but by that beast who once was, now is not and yet will come up out of the Abyss. He is that angel of the Abyss who is the king of those demonic being who are released at the sounding of the 5th trumpet/1st woe (Rev.9:14). The second beast/false prophet, will be an actual man and I believe that he will be one of the future popes.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The rest of the dead are those who died yes...but had no part in outwardly rebelling and fighting against the TRUTH of GOD and the TESTIMONY of JESUS>

It doesn't matter whether or not those being resurrected out of Hades at the end of the thousand years took part in rebelling and fighting. Everyone who dies without faith and those who reject Christ go into Hades at the time of death. A person doesn't have to do anything to be separated from God and that because of the sin they inherited from Adam puts everyone at enmity with God, with Jesus as the only way of reconciliation. Therefore all a person has to do to end up in the lake of fire is nothing. Absolutely nothing! All they have to do is continue to ignore Christ and die in that state and they will be condemned.

Please read Revelation 20 chronologically and again is it before or after the 1000 year reign that these men who have died are resurrected?

Regarding the above, again, which men are you talking about? Scriptures please.

 

[miknik5]

Originally Posted by Ahwatukee

You are correct, the beast and the false prophet are the first to be thrown into the lake of fire. What does that have to do with the chorological order?



Who are the others and what are you referring to as "the last day?"



Yes, I agree! There is a very big difference between those who take part in the first resurrection, which the second death has no power over, opposed to those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years, who are the unrighteous dead who will have been accumulating in Sheol/Hades from the beginning of history.[/quote]

(I don't agree with this since the beginning of history because CHRIST went to free those who were held captive in captivity so it does NOT include those who were taken back after HE descended and then ascended leading captivity captive in HIS train...further, since the GOSPEL is preached now, those who have heard and believed are NOT in Hades...)
It has to do with the truth that the spirits came out of their mouths before they were thrown into the lake of fire. And will
be gathered for the great battle..

And also note what they were judged for...for NOT believing the TESTIMONY of JESUS and for doing evil against those who testified to THE TRUTH of JESUS...

The rest of the dead are those who died yes...but had no part in outwardly rebelling and fighting against the TRUTH of GOD and the TESTIMONY of JESUS>

Please read Revelation 20 chronologically and again is it before or after the 1000 year reign that these men who have died are resurrected?

Please reread what I said again...
I do not disagree with you that satan will gather the "kings" for the great battle, but that comes AFTER the 1000 year reign...and it is only the false prophet and the beast who are thrown in the lake of fire.

Now if you read Revelation 19 you see that those who followed the beast before the 1000 year reign and after the false prophet and beast were thrown into the lake of fire, are also thrown into the lake of fire...and THEN the 1000 year reign, where there is no longer the false prophet, the beast and satan is bound up.

 

[miknik5]

Actually please read Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 together.
Two battles are referenced...

 

[miknik5]

The TOP Scholars in this land wrote the Commentaries:

The Seminary Professors of Dallas Theological Seminary wrote the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

Here is as short Biography of Dr. John MacArthur's background:

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John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, as well as an author, conference speaker, president of The Master’s College and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry.
In 1969, after graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church. The emphasis of his pulpit ministry is the careful study and verse-by-verse exposition of the Bible, with special attention devoted to the historical and grammatical background behind each passage. Under John’s leadership, Grace Community Church's two morning worship services fill the 2,600-seat auditorium to capacity.
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In 2015 The MacArthur New Testament Commentary series was completed. In its thirty-three volumes, John takes you detail by detail, verse by verse, through the entire New Testament.

The Master's College and Seminary was formerly known as, the Los Angeles Baptist Theological Seminary opened in 1927 with 24 students. William A. Matthews serves as the first president. Dr. John MacArthur became President of the Master's College and Seminary in 1985.



Here is a short Biography of who Dr. Thomas is:


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The following are notes that I have prepared from my own study of the Scriptures. I have distributed them to my students in my Bible classes at Dallas Theological Seminary for many years. I have also made them available to the people in my church. They provide more information than a study Bible, but they are less technical than many commentaries.​

These are working documents. I retired from teaching at DTS in June of 2011. Since then I have been giving my full attention to producing these notes, as well as preaching and teaching as I have opportunity. Whenever I teach a class and distribute them, I print out the most current edition and name it for the year in which I teach the class. So the edition year indicates the last time I taught the book using the notes.
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Thomas L. Constable, Th.D.
Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition
Dallas Theological Seminary
Dallas, Texas

[SIZE=+1]Education Background:[/SIZE]
Moody Bible Institute, Diploma (1960)
Wheaton College, AB (1962)
Dallas Theological Seminary, Th.M. (1966), Th.D. (1969)

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[TD="colspan: 2"]Instructor, Dallas Bible College (1966-67)[/TD]
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[TD]Teaching Fellow (1966-69)[/TD]
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[TD]Taught Pastoral Ministry courses (1966-80)[/TD]
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[TD]Taught Field Education courses (1966-85)[/TD]
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[TD]Supervisor of Practical Work (1969-70)[/TD]
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[TD]Assistant to the Academic Dean (1969-70)[/TD]
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[TD]Founder and Director of Field Education department (1970-82)[/TD]
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[TD]Instructor in Practical Theology (1971-74)[/TD]
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[TD]Founder and Director of Lay Institute (1973-85)[/TD]
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[TD]Assistant Professor of Practical Theology (1974-77)[/TD]
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[TD]Taught Bible Exposition courses (1975-2011)[/TD]
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[TD]Director of the Doctor of Ministry degree program (1979-96)[/TD]
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[TD]Department Chairman and Professor of Field Education (1982-85)[/TD]
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[TD]Associate Professor of Bible Exposition (1985-89)[/TD]
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[TD]Professor of Bible Exposition (1989-96)[/TD]
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[TD]Department Chairman of Bible Exposition (1996–2009)[/TD]
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[TD]Senior Professor of Bible Exposition (1996–2011)[/TD]
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[TD]Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition (2011–)[/TD]
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[TD]Word of Life Hungary Bible School (2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013).[/TD]
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[TD]Word of Life Korea Bible School (2010, 2011)[/TD]
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[TD]Word of Life Philippines Bible School (2011)[/TD]
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[TD]Word of Life Germany Bible School (2013)[/TD]
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Pulpit Ministry:[/SIZE]
Founder (1968), Pastor (1968-80), and Elder (1970–) of Plano Bible Chapel, Plano, Texas
Bible teaching, pulpit supply, and Bible conference ministries.

[SIZE=+1]Honors:
[/SIZE]C. I. Scofield Award in Missions (1964), Dallas Theological Seminary
Loraine Chafer Award in Systematic Theology (1966), Dallas Theological Seminary
Graduated with honors from Dallas Theological Seminary (1966)
Listed in Outstanding Young Men of America (1971)
Selected as an Outstanding Educator of America (1975)
Received senior class award for Teaching Excellence (1988, 1994, 2005),
from Dallas Theological Seminary
Visiting Scholar, Tyndale House, Cambridge, England (1992)
Listed in Who's Who Among American Teachers (1998)
The David L. Edwards Servant-Leader Award for Faculty Excellence in Spirit and
Service from the DTS faculty (2001)




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Who cares about all these credentials. Have you ever heard John MacArthur speak?
His love for the LORD is so evident that those are his credentials!

But thank you so much for listing them so that those who have never heard of them might know.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Now if you read Revelation 19 you see that those who followed the beast before the 1000 year reign and after the false prophet and beast were thrown into the lake of fire, are also thrown into the lake of fire...and THEN the 1000 year reign, where there is no longer the false prophet, the beast and satan is bound up.

I think I see where the problem is now. When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire. The rest of the people that will have been gathered there at Armageddon will be killed by that double-edged sword that proceeds out the mouth of the Lord, which is figurative representing the word of God. When Christ speaks all of those gathered will fall dead. The birds will eat their flesh and the soul/spirits will go into Hades, the same place where the rich man went, where they will remain until the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the thousand years have completed. Once they are judged, then they will thrown into the lake of fire. Rev.20:11-15 has the unrighteous dead being released from Hades.

To recap, those people who are gathered at Armageddon will be killed by the Lord and their spirits/souls will go down into Hades and will remain there until after the thousand years where at which time they will be resurrected out of Hades and will be judged at the great white throne judgment. All of the unrighteous dead from the beginning of history will be judged at this judgment.

 

[DP]

And does everyone agree that another earthly temple will be rebuilt?

I definitely do, even against many who have disagreed with me. The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have been getting the materials ready to build another temple and start up old covenant worship for decades now.

 

[DP]

The battle of Armegeddon happens after the 1000 year reign...
See revelation 20

Not so brother, Armageddon is the final battle of this present world, prior to Christ's Millennial reign. That's why Armageddon is linked with the 7th Vial event per Rev.16, which is timing of this world we are in.

 

[miknik5]

Not so brother, Armageddon is the final battle of this present world, prior to Christ's Millennial reign. That's why Armageddon is linked with the 7th Vial event per Rev.16, which is timing of this world we are in.

Please explain Revelation 20:7-15
Thank you