Deceived by Many False Christs

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#41
Please answer my original question. Jesus was speaking to the Church and Israel. Don't you think His disciples, who founded every church, were Christian? We know they were all of Israel too. Four disciples specifically asked for signs of the end of the age and return of Christ. If there was/is to be an earlier return of Christ, why doesn't He mention it??? Not only doesn't He mention it in the Olivet, He doesn't mention it ANYWHERE!!!

Surely you believe the 4 apostles were saved and if Jesus returned during their lives, they would have been raptured?? If so, why does Jesus instead speak only of His Second Coming??? Come on Roger, this is easy. Don't deflect by answering my questions with more questions. Answer these 3 things then I will be happy to move on.

Mat 24:[SUP] 29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

#1) In the above when does Jesus say He will return?

A) Before the Tribulation
B) After the Tribulation
C) Both A and B
D) Neither A or B

#2 Read every red word in your New Testament. Provide any passage where Christ Jesus (not Paul), tells us that He comes BEFORE the Tribulation.

#3 If you cannot point to a single lesson of Jesus which LOCATES THE TIMING OF HIS RETURN BEFORE the Tribulation, in your own words, please tell us why you think in all of His lessons, He left it out?
Jesus came as the promised Messiah. The Messiah was promised not to the church but to Israel.

You are set upon a course that is incorrect so you cannot arrive at the correct conclusion. Proper orientation is required before you can begin to comprehend what is being told.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#42
This is a common mistake thinking this. I used to think this too. But again, the question wasn't, "When will the Temple be destroyed," the question dealt with the time of the end and the return of Christ. Many people incorrectly take the first 3 verses of Mat 24 and apply to the rest of the chapter. Keep in mind, the original text had no chapters or verses. They were added in the 1600s by the translators.

Mat 24:1-3 tells of a conversation that took place earlier when they were still on the Temple Mount looking at the buildings. Mat 24:4 to Mat 26:2 takes place on the Mount of Olives. It was a different conversation and the topic was the signs of His return and the end of the age.
In order for you guys to make your theology fit into your own time frame and way of thinking you are willing to blatantly ignore the clear words of Jesus, which I posted earlier. Jesus and the disciples were talking about the Temple and buildings on the temple mount they were looking at with their own eyes. This is so crystal clear, but yet you false teachers are willing to totally ignore Jesus words in order to promote your false doctrine.

Lies have no place in the Truth, All those who love and make lies shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#43
Again you are wrong as I proved in my above post about the destruction of the Temple mount in 70 ad., of the Temple they were looking at with their own eyes. Some things remain to be fulfilled yes, but many judgments have already been fulfilled. The first 4 seals have to do with the 4 sore judgments, that were also foreshadowed of in Israel, and have already been loosed.

Jesus announced while on earth when the Prince of this world was to be cast out of heaven down to earth, and when the judgments would begin, with the clear declaration of NOW!

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Notice Jesus did not say thousands of years from now shall these judgments begin but NOW!
My dear fellow. Again, I have to disagree. The 4 seals deal with the rise of Islam. Much of Revelation is devoted to the Great false religion to come which came in 630 AD and the beast kingdom which supports/supported her.

Muhammad rode the white horse and founded ISLAM, the religion that deceives all the earth and sea.

The Ottoman Empire rose in 1299 and conquered the last bastion of Rome in 1453. The Ottoman's were the Red Horse, their official color. Their symbol of the crescent moon and star makes them worshipers of things from above which violates the first commandment of Exo 20. This Satanic symbol was present in all of the previous beast kingdoms. The Ottoman Empire was the 7th head of the beast which received a mortal wound in 1922. Just last week, the failed coup in Turkey will be seen as the start of this head being healed and the Ottoman beast coming back to life.

The Black horse is the income inequality of the Muslim world. They have the richest and poorest people.

The Green horse (not pale as the Greek word used is Chloros which is translated green everywhere else) is the rise of radical Islam and the Jihadists who kill in the name of Allah. Green represents Paradise in Islam. They think that when they blow themselves up in the process of terror, of killing infidels, that they go to Paradise and receive their 72 virgins but we are told that instead (spiritual) death and Hades follows them. Later we see the 10 horns of terrorists groups nuke Mecca and destroy their own religion. Later, the King of the North (most likely Turkey) attacks Israel which starts the Great Tribulation.

As for the NOW of your message, you didn't read on. The NOW simply means the course is set and there is no turning back from the path that was chosen. Jesus is reaffirming what the Father said to Satan back in Genesis as He was about to fulfill this prophesy.

Gen 3: [SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; He shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Once you understand who the Sons of Satan (his seed) are and who the Sons of the Woman (her seed) is, you will better understand. As for when the judgment actually happens, keep reading:

[SUP]48 [/SUP]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

We see that the judgment happens on the LAST DAY. He spoke the WORD now, but the judgment is reserved for the last day. We saw no immediate judgment of the wicked on the day Christ died, did we? Only Judas received his in that time frame.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#44
In order for you guys to make your theology fit into your own time frame and way of thinking you are willing to blatantly ignore the clear words of Jesus, which I posted earlier. Jesus and the disciples were talking about the Temple and buildings on the temple mount they were looking at with their own eyes. This is so crystal clear, but yet you false teachers are willing to totally ignore Jesus words in order to promote your false doctrine.

Lies have no place in the Truth, All those who love and make lies shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
The real LIE, is the pre-trib Rapture timing. Nowhere is it taught. Jesus NEVER teaches it and neither did Paul if you were able to understand him. In fact, Jesus goes out of His way to tell us 3 times that false Christs come first before He returns!!!

I already explained to you that you need to ignore the verses and chapter numbers. They don't exist in the original text. Therefore you have to understand the context which is often difficult.

THIS:

Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

IS OVER. IT WAS DISCUSSED when they were there, at the Temple Mount
. Then guess what? They left there and walked to the Mount of Olives. If they went there straight away, it would have taken about 15 minutes. Matthew and Mark's account tell us that later (and we don't know how much later) they were then on the Temple Mount. It could have been hours later. Luke doesn't even mention that they moved to the Mount of Olives in his account. In fact, Luke breaks the Olivet Discourse into two pieces which are found in Luke 17 and 21.

Now read on. We have a change in venue with an undisclosed time lapse. A new discussion starts. The Temple is not mentioned. The three versions of the question were these:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, [SUP]4 [/SUP]“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”


None of the four disciplines who were actually there recorded the account. But it is clear that the TEMPLE was not mentioned. We have the "sign of your coming and end of age," we have "these things" and "the sign of these things" then we have "when will these things take place."

Nowhere in any of the three accounts of Jesus' answer does He mention the destruction of the temple. It took me years to sort this out. My breakthrough came when I finally saw this for what it meant:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

This means that everything Jesus was talking about in the Olivet conversation was to take place in one generation, the generation of the fig tree as I like to say. The conversation at the temple was earlier, perhaps a lot earlier in the day.

Go easy on the lie accusations my friend. Nobody is lying here. Some are wrong but none are deliberately lying. My name is not Clinton!!
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#45
Jesus came as the promised Messiah. The Messiah was promised not to the church but to Israel.

You are set upon a course that is incorrect so you cannot arrive at the correct conclusion. Proper orientation is required before you can begin to comprehend what is being told.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Still can't answer the question Roge, good buddy!!!?????

FYI: Jesus and the Messiah are one and the same.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#46
My dear fellow. Again, I have to disagree. The 4 seals deal with the rise of Islam.
ROFL!!!! Another lie.

Go easy on the lie accusations my friend. Nobody is lying here.
Rejecting Jesus' words as the Truth is being deceived by the lie, teaching those same lies is lying. Being ignorant of teaching lies is one thing, but when you have been shown the truth according to Jesus' own words, and you still keep up with the lies, then there is no more excuse for the constant repeating of the lies. You also have been warned. :)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#47
Still can't answer the question Roge, good buddy!!!?????

FYI: Jesus and the Messiah are one and the same.
Cute but only masks the truth that you refuse to accept.

Jesus Messiah came to Israel not to the church. Jesus earthly ministry was to Israel not to the Gentiles. The Olivet discourse is about Israel not the church. The church does not replace Israel but only inherits the blessings that were for Israel. The great tribulation is an event centered on Israel not the church.

No point in endeavoring to address poorly posed and misleading questions. Just pointing out the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#48
ROFL!!!! Another lie.



Rejecting Jesus' words as the Truth is being deceived by the lie, teaching those same lies is lying. Being ignorant of teaching lies is one thing, but when you have been shown the truth according to Jesus' own words, and you still keep up with the lies, then there is no more excuse for the constant repeating of the lies. You also have been warned. :)
Are you speaking about the timing of the rapture? Neither you, nor anyone else, has ever shown me one verse that Jesus or anyone else in the Bible discusses an earlier (before the Tribulation) return of Christ. No passage exists. To claim one does is a lie. Otherwise, show it to me.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#49
Are you speaking about the timing of the rapture? Neither you, nor anyone else, has ever shown me one verse that Jesus or anyone else in the Bible discusses an earlier (before the Tribulation) return of Christ. No passage exists. To claim one does is a lie. Otherwise, show it to me.
Who said anything about a rapture? Not I. The tribulation of "those days" as it pertained to the Jews, already started long ago when Jesus said it would, right after the AOD in 70 ad. But then again, if you reject the Temple mount Jesus and the disciples were looking at with their own eyes as already being destroyed to fulfill that prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple mount, then you will also reject the tribulation of "those days" having already started. :)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#50
Cute but only masks the truth that you refuse to accept.

Jesus Messiah came to Israel not to the church. Jesus earthly ministry was to Israel not to the Gentiles. The Olivet discourse is about Israel not the church. The church does not replace Israel but only inherits the blessings that were for Israel. The great tribulation is an event centered on Israel not the church.

No point in endeavoring to address poorly posed and misleading questions. Just pointing out the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You'll be happy to hear that I agree that the Tribulation deals with Israel. But this does not change the fact that the 4 disciples specifically asked for the signs of His coming and the end of the age. The only signs given were for his only return after the Tribulation of Israel. Jesus doesn't breathe a word about an earlier return at the Olivet or at any other time!! These disciples founded the original churches so to tell me that Jesus would not have included them in an earlier return is beyond any reasonable explanation.

John 15:15

No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Why did Jesus never tell his own followers about the so-called pre-trib rapture? Did the Father never tell Jesus about it? Or, did he tell the disciples in secret and told them not to tell us?

Now Paul, clearly was part of the church, right?? Paul writes the only passage where you get this pre-trib idea from. If you notice in the below, Paul does not give a timing, does he? So why do you assign a pre-trib timing?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Lets forget for a moment that Paul isn't even discussing the return of Christ here but rather the return of God, the Father, AKA, the LORD HIMSELF coming with His own trumpet. Notice "God will Bring?" Jesus isn't coming with the sound of God's trumpet. God is coming with the sound of God's trumpet. You do know that God returns at some point too, right? Everyone wants to make this passage about some pre-trib rapture. It isn't. It is God returning, not Jesus.

Paul goes on to tell us concerning Christ's return:

2 Thes 2: Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed...

The timing is the same as the Mat 24 timing, AFTER the Tribulation. Sorry if you guys don't like it but we are promised tribulation for His name sake. "Take up your cross and follow me!!" Common, what does this mean to you guys? They aren't going to a barn raising. "Those who wish to save their lives will lose them and those who are willing to lose their lives will save them." "You will be hated by all nations for my name sake." The promise of persecution is all over the place and I don't see any one reversing it for the end times church, except you pre-tribbers of course.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#51
Who said anything about a rapture? Not I. The tribulation of "those days" as it pertained to the Jews, already started long ago when Jesus said it would, right after the AOD in 70 ad. But then again, if you reject the Temple mount Jesus and the disciples were looking at with their own eyes as already being destroyed to fulfill that prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple mount, then you will also reject the tribulation of "those days" having already started. :)
Oh, yes, I absolutely reject that the Tribulation of Mat 24 has started. It is yet future for a lot of reasons, but got to run now.
 
E

Eternallife

Guest
#52
Mat 24: [SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

Jesus tells us that everything He reveals in the Olivet Discourse (Mat 24: 4-31) happens to one generation, the generation of the fig tree. For those who believe, as I do, we could be in this generation. The first thing that Jesus mentions is the above deception of many claiming to be Christ. We are told that they deceive many. So, what can we learn from this?

1) There will be an event where many will come in Christ's name claiming to be Christ. The first rule of understanding prophesy is to check to see if it has already been fulfilled. I can find no historical event where masses of entities arrive claiming to be Christ at the same time. It would take a major conspiracy of well planning for a large group of people to go out claiming to be Christ at the same time. Let's say that millions went out knocking on doors claiming to be Christ and told the person who answered to follow them. Most would think they were looking at a nut job and slam the door. So, it has to be more than that, and it is.

Mat 24:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive... So we see that those claiming to be Christ also perform miracles to aid in their credibility. Normal people cannot do this, but angels or demons can. As crazy as it sounds, do we have any prophesy of demonic angels coming to earth? Turns out we do. Not only are we told Satan and his angels are cast out, a warning is given to those who dwell on earth.

Rev 12: [SUP]9 [/SUP]So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]...Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”


We see that Satan and his angels will be permanently thrown out of heaven and that they come to earth. Satan has great wrath and logic would tell us, so do his demons. So, what do they do with this great wrath and why do earth's inhabitants have to fear?

Rev 12: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

They make war with the Woman's (which is Israel) offspring. Those who keep God's commandments and have the testimony of Jesus can only be Christians. So Revelation 12 is telling us that Satan and his demons come to earth and wage war with Christians.

2) That many will be deceived. To believe Christ has come, you must first believe in Christ. If you believe in Christ, you are a Christian (perhaps very lukewarm but you still believe). If one doesn't believe in the existence of Christ, can one really be deceived by someone claiming to be Christ? Probably not.

Jesus further warns us that we will be approached by false christs and prophets.

Mat 24: [SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it...[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

We are specifically told to not go out, not to follow them and not to look where they want us to look. Again, many don't heed this warning and they are deceived, they go. It should be obvious that nothing good can come of being deceived and going after a false christ. I don't know where they go or what happens to them, but it appears they are killed in vast numbers. While we are short on details, we do know where they end up.

Rev 7: “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”[SUP] 14 [/SUP]And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation..."

So a whole lot of deceived Christians end up in heaven in a short period of time. John reveals something else about them in the next Chapter. He give us an idea of how many are killed.

Rev 8: [SUP]7 [/SUP]The first angel sounded: And hail and fire followed, mingled with blood, and they were thrown to the earth. And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

If you know your OT symbols you know that "grass" is symbolic of regular people while "trees" are symbolic of leaders. If you add "Green" we know they are spiritually alive or saved. So at the first trumpet (which corresponds with the first sign Jesus gives in the Olivet) we see that all "common" Christians are killed along with one third of all wise Christians. They are deceived and God allows them to be killed because they lack the scriptural knowledge that would have saved them.

Jesus reminds us of one thing that if we remember, we would never be fooled by miracle performing false christs.

Mat 24: [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Just remember that when Jesus comes, He comes as fast as lightening. He doesn't announce it or ring your doorbell or appear to you some other way. I know this all sounds fantastic and that many who read this will think I'm off my rocker, but trust me, crazy things will take place in the end times. It will be like the days of Noah and like the days of Lot. During those days people were going after "strange flesh" which were angels. Bad angels or demons used to walk the earth and interact with humans. It happened before and it WILL happen again.

Jude: [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; [SUP]7 [/SUP]as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Earlier this week, I received an impression of immense pending evil that is coming soon. It was just a general feeling with nothing specific. I often get such feelings about big events before they happen but never know what it means until the big events happen (World Trade Center, Katrina, Paris attacks, etc). This was as strong a feeling as I ever had and when I had it, what I am discussing came to mind. I hope this reminder blesses those who read it and that we remember what Christ taught so that we don't end up ashamed in heaven as part of the Great Multitude.
I guess where one of your major error lies is where you think every prophecy has to have been already fulfilled.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#53
I guess where one of your major error lies is where you think every prophecy has to have been already fulfilled.
Where do I say that? I actually think many prophesies still remain unfulfilled. What errors?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#54
Israel in respect to an inward Jew, born again... according to the incorruptible seed of God’s word had its named changed when God then called His one bride the church, Christian .A word that literally means residents of the city of Christ, named after it founder, our husband . She is shown coming down from heaven prepared as his eternal bride.

She is not known by either male or female Jew or gentile but a new creation . It is why I believe he re- named her Christian, previously called Israel in respect to the born again Jew. . God puts no difference between the Jew and the gentile purifying the hearts of both by the work of His faith that alone comes from hearing God through the scriptures.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:1

One bride, one church made up of many lively stones that does make up the spiritual house of God called a temple. He informs us we are that temple not made with human hands.

Israel as a whole in respect to the flesh was no longer needed in parables .Christ the root of salvation cut them off never to be used anymore as metaphors forever more. The demonstration ended when Christ said it is finished . It began the promised reformation where again types and shadows had become sight.

And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.And Jesus answered and said unto it, “No man” eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it. Mar 11:13-14


Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is “withered away”.And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. Mar 11:20

(Never faith in the flesh of men)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#55
Who said anything about a rapture? Not I. The tribulation of "those days" as it pertained to the Jews, already started long ago when Jesus said it would, right after the AOD in 70 ad. But then again, if you reject the Temple mount Jesus and the disciples were looking at with their own eyes as already being destroyed to fulfill that prophecy concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple mount, then you will also reject the tribulation of "those days" having already started. :)
Again, you must consider that Mark 13:1-2 and Mat 24:1-3 took place on the Temple Mount. That discussion was with all of the disciples. That discussion ended with verse 2 in the case of Mark and verse 3 in Matthew's account. There are no chapter or verse numbers in the original text. Those were put there by the translators in the early 1600s. So, we have to consider context and understand the big picture of the day.

Later, as they were on the Mount of Olives, 4 disciples started a new discussion and asked a specific question. The "temple" was not mentioned in any of the 3 versions of the questions nor any of the 3 replies of Jesus. You will not find the word, "temple" after Mat 24:1 until Mat 26:55. Same thing in Mark. It is last used in Mark 13:3 and not used again until Mark 14:49. Luke's account tells us this:

Luke 21:37

And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet.

In Matthew and Mark's account it appears they discussed the temple then walked immediately to the Mount of Olives and asked their famous question and continued the discussion about the temple. But Luke tells us it was day time when Jesus taught in the Temple and nighttime when He went to the Mount of Olives. So, there was a time lapse of perhaps several hours. Perhaps they went somewhere in between, had dinner, etc. We don't know.

You have to look back to what Jesus was teaching about in the Temple. He had a long discussion with the various religious leaders about various topics. Jesus got into a heated discussion with some of the Sadducees concerning the resurrection as they tried to trip Him up with their question about the man who died and had 7 wives and a brother. Go back to Luke 20, Mat 22, Mark 12 and get a flavor for what was happening and being discussed in more detail for a longer period of time then the brief temple comments as they were leaving.

Many of you want to read Mat 24 in a vacuum without taking the time to fully understand the context of what was being discussed earlier that day. You ignore the long and heated battle Jesus had with the religious leaders concerning the resurrection, and other topics.

It was the end times and Jesus' return that was being asked about at the Olivet. Even if the 4 disciples were confused and thought the temple destruction happened in the same era as Christ return, Christ ignores it in His response to the question. Again, Christ NEVER mentions the temple in any of the three accounts of His reply. You think he does and this is where you err and I can prove it.

Consider this:

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

[SUP]32 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

Jesus states the above in all three accounts. This means that "ALL THINGS" Jesus discussed in His reply happens to ONE GENERATION. ONE GENERATION SEES EVERYTHING that Jesus relates. This includes His Return, the False Christs, the Great Tribulation of Israel, the Abomination of Desolation, the Wars and Rumors or Wars, the Earthquakes, etc., etc. Therefore the Temple events of AD 70 could not be included in Jesus' reply because its destruction was not seen by the same generation that will see His return.

For Jesus to have been discussing Temple era AD 70 events, the Abomination of Desolation would have to have been seen. It wasn't back in AD 70. Remember, Jesus references Daniel's A of D. The only place Daniel mentions the A of D is in Chapters 11 and 12. In the context of Chapter 11, the King of the North was going back and forth attacking the King of the South and vice versa. Titus didn't do this. Titus also could not have been the King to the North because he was from Rome which is due west of Israel. Daniel tells us that the King of the North will come to his end between the seas and the glorious holy mountain in Dan 11:45. Titus died in Italy.

Further, if Jesus was discussing AD 70 events, he would have needed to make a transition to jump ahead 2,000+ years to discuss His eventual return. He never does. Also, the events listed by Christ before verse 15 A of D and the start of the Great Tribulation in verse 21 were not met before AD 70. There were no false Christs of any note prior to Simeon bar Kosevah in 132 AD and he never claimed to be the Messiah, this idea was started by others.

Also, the Gospel could not have been considered preached to the whole world until approximately now. Jesus makes clear:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

This is a prerequisite to the A of D and GT of verses 15 and 21 respectively, and certainly was nowhere near done by AD 70.

Based on years and years of study and all these facts set forth, I conclude that nothing Jesus says after Mat 24:3 dealt with circa AD 70 events, instead, all of it deals with one generation, the same one which will witness His glorious return.
 
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Jan 7, 2015
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#56
The "temple" was not mentioned in any of the 3 versions of the questions nor any of the 3 replies of Jesus.
More lies. I already posted the verses where Jesus and his disciples were specifically talking about the destruction of the buildings they were looking at with their own eyes. That Truth throws a wrench in your whole theology, so you try to twist it's meaning, which is a very bad idea. If your doctrine is not based on the Truth, and if your doctrine is not in line with the words of God, then it will be full of holes and errors, like yours. You are starting out with errors and trying to build thereon with more errors because that is only way you can force it to fit into your false doctrine.

The words of Jesus I posted earlier prove your doctrine wrong. Now you can either humble yourself to the Truth, or you can stay lifted up in your mind in pride and keep promoting false doctrine. I advise you to humble yourself to the Truth. :)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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#57
More lies. I already posted the verses where Jesus and his disciples were specifically talking about the destruction of the buildings they were looking at with their own eyes. That Truth throws a wrench in your whole theology, so you try to twist it's meaning, which is a very bad idea. If your doctrine is not based on the Truth, and if your doctrine is not in line with the words of God, then it will be full of holes and errors, like yours. You are starting out with errors and trying to build thereon with more errors because that is only way you can force it to fit into your false doctrine.

The words of Jesus I posted earlier prove your doctrine wrong. Now you can either humble yourself to the Truth, or you can stay lifted up in your mind in pride and keep promoting false doctrine. I advise you to humble yourself to the Truth. :)

Clearly you didn't read a word I said in my last post because it blows your entire idea of AD 70 events being discussed by Jesus in His Olivet. You really need to devote a few minutes to actually study everything and not stand on your longtime beliefs.

Jesus lists various things that happen before the Abomination of Desolation is seen, which of course is the starting point of the Great Tribulation of Israel. Here they are and ALL OF THEM must fit in order for this to be circa AD 30- 70 fulfillment.

1) [SUP]5 [/SUP]For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. This NEVER happened between AD 30 and AD 70. Name ONE false Christ who came in this period. The text says "many come" and "deceive many." Name some of the false Christs along with the numbers of people deceived. I dare you. I double dare you!!

2) [SUP]6 [/SUP]And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Other than a few minor Roman skirmishes, there were no major wars between AD 30 and 70 other than the various attack on Israel itself.

3) [SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. Again, there were no major armed conflicts between various nations in the period between AD 30 and 70. Rome had a lot of internal conflict and a few minor battles with the British Celts (Caractacus and Togodumnus) in 43 - 50 AD but to say the world was in major conflict would be an exaggeration.

4) And there will be famines. I can find only one famine during the period of AD 30 to AD 70 in Judea. There was also a famine in the days of Claudius Caesar between 37 and 41 AD. So this clue could be relevant.

5) pestilences. Usually when there are famines, there are pestilences although there is no historical evidence of any major plagues between 30 AD and 70 AD.

6) earthquakes in diverse places. There have always been earthquakes and always will be. They do seem to be on the rise now.

7) [SUP]9 [/SUP]“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. The four disciples Jesus was speaking to according to Mark 13:3 were Peter, James, John, and Andrew. John was not killed and he died a natural death. Therefore Christ was speaking about either Jews or Christians generally or both.

8) [SUP]10 [/SUP]And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. This could be said about any period in history.

9) [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. There were none of note between AD 30 and AD 70. This clue which is the second time given, does not fit the period prior to AD 70 Temple destruction and the time Jesus said it.


10) [SUP]12 [/SUP]And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. There is always lawlessness.

11) [SUP]13 [/SUP]But he who endures to the end shall be saved. End of what? The question was "end of the age." None of them made it to the end of the age but of course they were saved. However, this passage is a restatement of Mat 10. Mat 10 of course is where the commandment was given to the 12 to be witnesses throughout the world and really is applicable to all Christians through the centuries since.

12) [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. This was not completed by AD 70. It took 300 years for Christianity to spread around the Mediterranean. Certainly the Gospel had NOT been preached in all the world by AD 70!!

The next thing Jesus mentions is the Abomination of Desolation. NONE was found in AD 70. The Temple was destroyed PERIOD. You tell me what Abominable thing Titus set up that caused the desolation of Israel.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)...

What was/is the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel? Daniel speaks of it here and relates it to a war where people are fighting and dying and being refined to the end. Titus didn't do many of these things. Titus never made a covenant with those who disregard the covenant. They are Palestinians.

“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. [SUP]33 [/SUP]And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. [SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.


The fleeing in AD 70 was the result of the Romans finally breaching the fortress and sacking the Temple. In Jesus' account, the Abomination of Desolation is seen and this alone causes the fleeing which happens ahead of the coming invasion of Israel in verse 21.

You hurl accusations of lies at me without merit. You are lazy in your studies. You don't dig into the scriptures and reconcile Jesus' account with OT accounts like in Daniel, Ezekiel, Joel and Zechariah 13 which immediately precedes the Day of the Lord.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one–third shall be left in it: [SUP]9 [/SUP]I will bring the one–third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, ‘This is My people’; And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’”


If you took the time to study you would compare the highlighted passage from Zec 13 to Dan 11 below.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end;

The TIME OF THE END is what Jesus was asked about as He acknowledges:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

AND THEN THE END WILL COME!! After Jesus tells us this He goes right to the Abomination of Desolation, the tribulation and His return. ALL HAPPEN TO ONE GENERATION.

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

But you are a foolish man, set in your false beliefs about fulfilled scripture that is still yet in the future. You lack understanding and cover up for it by insulting those who have taken the time to really study it.
 
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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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#58
Mohammed is the biggest false Christ and antichrist in history.

He is currently deceiving 1.6 billion people.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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#59
Mohammed is the biggest false Christ and antichrist in history.

He is currently deceiving 1.6 billion people.
EXACTLY. Thank you brother!! Of course Muhammad came in 630-632 and formed Islam which is Mystery Babylon. Islam is the main religion of Satan. It will be through Islam that Israel is attacked. It will be Islamic Jihadists that set up the Abomination of Desolation which will cause those in Judea to flee ushering in the Great Tribulation of Israel. Sadly, many of our "less-informed" brothers think this already happened by Titus although none can name anything abominable that Titus set up.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#60
Jesus lists various things that happen before the Abomination of Desolation is seen, which of course is the starting point of the Great Tribulation of Israel. Here they are and ALL OF THEM must fit in order for this to be circa AD 30- 70 fulfillment.
Clearly you are confused in your order of events, as to what happens before and then later after the AOD happened in 70 ad. You insist all those events, which many have in fact transpired over the past 1900 years or so must happen before the AOD in 70 ad happened, this of course is false idea and false notion that is propped up to distort the truth and prop up a false doctrine. Also as I've already pointed out "the generation" Jesus was referring to was the wicked generation of Adam= children of that wicked=seed of evil doers=corruptible seed etc. So all your own hard work and study of scripture don't mean diddly squat if you don't have any Oil in your lamp so you can see the Truth. :)