Defence of the Catholics

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tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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#41
Even the Reformers who were not Romes best friend said man's heart is an idol factory. I suppose you are not seeing the log in your own eye.
Idolatry starts in the heart not the knees.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to crossnote again.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#42
Try telling that to someone who has followed a tradition all their life. How will you back up your argument?

You can not tell someone to stop worshipping Mary etc etc.

Just like you can't tell someone to stop raping, killing, stealing, lying etc.


If they desire Jesus...........they will come to Him and start seeing the truth.
So true and unless the spirit of God draws them and they submit to the leadership of the Spirit they will never come to an understanding...........!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#43
I don't completely agree with this. You are pointing your finger to Catholics in general.
How do you know all Catholics worship idols? That's generalising. I was a Catholic and never used to worship idols.
The first "idolaters" that worshipped the calf were not "Catholic" but following a FALSE GOD.

I can think of a few other "religions" that also worship idols.

Point being...........not all Catholics worship idols. (The act of worshipping idols is what God hates) no matter who it is.
Another truth found here as well....in reference to your reference, the Israelites struck the posts with blood and had been delivered from bondage as believers and then sinned when they worshipped the golden calf........!
 
May 15, 2013
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#45
I am commanded by God (Christ) to love my enemies; This would include atheists and satanists (and yes; Even Catholics). Doesn't mean it is wrong for me to tell them and others (Such as Catholics) that they are on the wrong road or a path of spiritual destruction. It doesn't mean it is wrong to expose their wicked practices that run contrary to the Bible. For nobody is truly a Christian if they worship idols. They are worshiping a false Christ because Jesus does not approve of sin or idolatry. For an idolater cannot be a Christian anymore than they can be a serial killer or a child abuser.
A lot of Christians wear a crucifix around their necks, but it suppose to be used as a reminder, but some Christians think its has power, and even they think that the Bible itself has power as well. There are Catholics that believed that the statues of the saints carries the spirits of them, and they need some sort of image to talk to, because they need some type of assurance that someone is listening to them, like the Israelites had asked for a king that they can see and touch, because they couldn't see God; but God didn't abandoned them. God like it when we acknowledge Him and His kingdom, eventhough we go about it in the wrong way.

37 The Lord said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the Lord your God.’”

2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings. He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#46
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Colossians 2:6-8 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

John 17:11-12 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in THY NAME: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Revelation 2:20-24 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#47
Beware of the false prophets in life... the self righteous who want to hunt others down?

"Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. They are trying to shut you off from me so that you will pay attention only to them."

Galatians 4:17
If we love our catholic brothers and sisters, we have to remind them. They pray to Mary, they believe in purgatory etc.

say our mom walk to the abyss. She not aware and she think she is going to the palace.

It is love to remind her how wrong she is though she may offended and mad.

To say you OK mam, may make her happy but it is not love. it is hatred to let our mom go to hell.

To prevent one being offended in the cost of they salvation is hatred, not love.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#48
Many protestants assume that Catholics view Scripture as their final authority as they do. That is the dividing line..
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#49
Many protestants assume that Catholics view Scripture as their final authority as they do. That is the dividing line..
Yes, and if the faith taught by Jesus Christ and the apostles of the first century is not completely reliable and completely sufficient to save and instruct in righteousness, nobody is saved. And if it is enough, I know I'd be a fool to seek anything different.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#50
First off catholics do not make statues or idols and consider them God and bow down and worship them as if they are God, catholics do not consider crucifixes God, nor do they consider relics of saints God. Catholics do not consider Mary to be God.
Let's look at what the Bible states.

The 2nd Commandment says,

Exodus 20:4
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Do Catholics make a graven image of a likeness of anything that is in heaven above?

Yes, this would be Mary. Which is a breaking of this commandment. Let's continue to read on.

Exodus 20:5
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Do Catholics bow down to these graven images? Yes. Which would mean they are breaking this Commandment.

Do Catholics serve these graven images? Yes. They serve them by doing the rosary, and by praying to Mary help. They use these statues as a way to help in their prayer to an entity that is not God. Mary is not God whereby she can answer millions of prayers at once like God. Remember when the angel told John not to bow down before him because he was just a man?

Secondly Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnated in the flesh and is the only means of salvation. Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity as professed in the Nicene Creed. Catholics believe that the Church is the mystical body of Christ and christians are a member of that body whether they recognize it or not.

Thirdly Catholics are not perfect and their doctrines and dogmas are not without error. Some catholics do abuse devotion to Mary, and venerate her in place of their devotion and worship of God. Some catholics do believe some icons and relics hold mystical power and rely on such superstitions rather than have faith in God. One must note that Paul touched some pieces of cloth and sent them out to the sick and they were healed.

Fourthly fundamentalism is not the only true faith, and until you recognize that you will continue to judge others and condemn others even while you have a large plank in your own eye.

Just a thought.


Read Matthew 7. There are many who did many wonderful works, but yet Christ said, I never knew, depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Catholics are working iniquity by praying to the dead and by bowing down to statues which is a breaking of the 2nd Commandment. We are warned many times to keep ourselves from idols. Bowing down to statues is idol worship. Nobody corrects people in the RCC for venerating Mary because it is approved of in their own church doctrines. In fact, many of come out of the RCC and realized that they were in fact worshiping Mary and were deceived. What about those people? Are they lying?

As for Acts 19:12:

These were not magical objects to be worshiped. Nobody prayed to Paul with these clothes. This was God's way of healing people on his choosing and timing. Nowhere are we ever told to go out and create clothes from holy men so as to be healed. This was a special event of healing by God. Remember, the brass serpent healed the Jews when they looked at it, but they later turned into an idol to be worshiped (Which was wrong). It was the same with Ephod. It later became something that was worshiped wrongfully.

Also: I am not judging on my own standard, I am merely pointing out to you what is wrong in the RCC according to the Bible. For all men will be judged by the Word of God.
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#51
Yes I am defending the Catholics, I am a Christian I do not agree with some of their beliefs but i see it wrong to be putting them down. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ and we are to be just as loving to them as we are to each other. There seems to be a hate to hate system between Christians and Catholics going both ways, I want to be a bridge and hopefully bring the two faiths together as much as I can.
We may disagree about our beliefs but we are still in Christ, I hear so much talk about Catholic heresy in my days as a Christian and I think its wrong.

Im not doing this because I agree with them I am doing this because I know this is what Jesus would have done
There is egregious heresy in Catholicism that one must be aware of.

And that is that Mary is co-redeemer with Christ.
 
Feb 26, 2014
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#52
catholics follow our lord jesus and accept him as saviour, they are our family.

God be with them
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#53
Re: Blissful ignorance.....

Idiotic statement award of the day. Another trophy for your trophy case, Jason. You can put this one right next to the one you earned while arguing ad nausaem about how Jesus served grape juice instead of wine at the Wedding at Cana and also the Last Supper. Doh!
Wisdom is justified of her children.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#54
Amen. God does not go by denominations. He goes by what is in our hearts. There could be one or more people in each church who have not accepted Jesus as yet. When they confess that Jesus is their Lord and savior they are a new Christian amen.

Do we call them a non Christian, a person searching for Jesus or a potential Christian?

Who are we to judge? I leave the judging up to God
amen.
Ours is not to judge the heart of another, but ours is definitely to judge the doctrine of another.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#55
According to the Oxford dictionary....this is the definition of "Christianity"....

NOUN

[MASS NOUN]1The religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ, or its beliefs and practices:the writers seem to find a rapprochement between Islam and ChristianityMORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES


1.1Christian quality or character:you may know a man by his Christianity

Christianity is today the world’s most widespread religion, with more than a billion members, mainly divided between the Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox Churches. It originated among the Jewish followers of Jesus of Nazareth, who believed that he was the promised Messiah (or ‘Christ’), but the Christian Church soon became an independent organization, largely through the missionary efforts of St Paul. In 313 Constantine ended official persecution in the Roman Empire and in 380 Theodosius I recognized it as the state religion. Most Christians believe in one God in three Persons (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) and that Jesus is the Son of God who rose from the dead after being crucified; a Christian hopes to attain eternal life after death through faith in Jesus Christ and tries to live by his teachings as recorded in the New Testament.


Christianity: definition of Christianity in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

According to the same dictionary, the definition of "Christian" is:


ADJECTIVE

1Relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings:the Christian Church

Christian: definition of Christian in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

So to those here, and there are hundreds if not more on this site, who believe that Catholicism is not a Christian faith, english language definitions will disagree with that. I was raised Catholic. I was taught to pray to Jesus, to God and to accept the Holy Spirit and all His gifts at my confirmation. I was not taught to "worship" idols, statues, golden cows or any of that sort of thing. I have since converted to being a non-denominational Christian, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Catholic faith as one practices it as taught by the bible, which is what the majority of Catholics do anyway.
So we have been lowered to the level of letting the Dictionary define our faith rather than the Bible?

Anyway, who are we to judge others for their beliefs etc. As far as I was aware....we didn't have the authority to do that.
Jesus said to judge righteous Judgment. This would be pointing out wrong practices by what the Word of God says (And not what Jason0047 says). The Scriptures also say not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, to reprove them? Do you believe that part of Scripture?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#56
Ours is not to judge the heart of another, but ours is definitely to judge the doctrine of another.
Yes. Exactly. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, reproof, and instruction in righteousness.

Scripture is for correction for folks who do not have correct doctrine. All Scripture is profitable to correct others.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#57
catholics follow our lord jesus and accept him as saviour, they are our family.

God be with them
No, they believe Mary is co-redeemer. Do you believe she saves you, too? They worship a different Christ. For Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Mary does not mediate anything. She is just a human being who needed a Savior just like us. But Catholics do not teach that she was sinful, though. They make her into some kind of God by praying to her, etc.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#59
Even the Reformers who were not Romes best friend said man's heart is an idol factory. I suppose you are not seeing the log in your own eye.
Idolatry starts in the heart not the knees.
Please quote to me what the 2nd Commandment says in Exodus 20 and tell me how they are not breaking that Commandment.
 
L

Last

Guest
#60
Please quote to me what the 2nd Commandment says in Exodus 20 and tell me how they are not breaking that Commandment.
Logically speaking, you would really need to explain how one is breaking a commandment, not how one is not.