Did the Ten Commandments Precede Moses?

just-me · May 31, 2015

You have a good point there. Flour for a sin offering was used for the poor without anything added such as oil etc. I look at the Cain and Abel thing like this, in respect to what Paul said about presenting ourselves unto God. God made the seed to make edible plants grow. The clean animals were those that chewed the cud properly digesting the vegetation. These animals offered then, represent us today according to the summary I presented in Paul's writings. If the seed that produces the "fruits" (being the word of God, and knowing others by their fruit) is not taken in and simply offered without digestion, it is no wonder that God wouldn't have respect for an offering that we were not involved with. Such is the Cain and Abel scenario.

There is much more, but this is just a very short summary.

Elin · May 31, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

The Abrahamic Covenant of Promise (Messiah; everlasting possession) was not cancelled.

The Mosaic (Sinaitic, Old) Covenant and its laws were temporarily added (Ro 5:20; Gal 3:19)
to the Abrahamic Covenant, which laws were set aside (Heb 7:18-19) when the priesthood,
on which the law was based (Heb 7:11), was changed (Heb 7:12),
the old covenant made obsolete (Heb 8:13), and replaced with the new covenant (Lk 22:20)
which is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant of Promise (Jesus Christ; everlasting possession
of eternal life--Heb 11:13-16).

The Abrahamic Covenant of grace was not cancelled by the Sinaitic covenant, it was fulfilled
in the New Covenant of grace.

peacefulbeliever · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

Just perhaps - God had conversation with Noah that were not recorded . . . . . Just as there are records of Jesus Christ that were not recorded [John 21:25] - Can you imagine how BIG the bible would be IF every single word spoken was recorded? So, when he told him to take of every clean beast, male and female and of beasts that are not clean . . . It is feasible that God said more than that - that he explained to Noah what he meant.

Elin · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

posthuman said:

You have a good point there. Flour for a sin offering was used for the poor without anything added such as oil etc. I look at the Cain and Abel thing like this, in respect to what Paul said about presenting ourselves unto God. God made the seed to make edible plants grow. The clean animals were those that chewed the cud properly digesting the vegetation. These animals offered then, represent us today according to the summary I presented in Paul's writings. If the seed that produces the "fruits" (being the word of God, and knowing others by their fruit) is not taken in and simply offered without digestion, it is no wonder that God wouldn't have respect for an offering that we were not involved with. Such is the Cain and Abel scenario.

There is much more, but this is just a very short summary.

The NT word of God tells us why Abel's sacrifice was accepted. . .

"By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did.
By faith he was commended as a righteous man when God spoke well of his offerings." (Heb 11:4)

Elin · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

You're rather confused. . .

Animals changing does not equate to God changing.

peacefulbeliever · May 31, 2015

Elin said:

Amen . . . Thank you! I get so tired of hearing "God does not change" when someone says that something has changed from the OT to the NT . . . God's characteristics don't change and in that God remains the same.

Elin · May 31, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

It's like saying that because I didn't let my 12-year-old drive, but let him drive when he turned 16, I have "changed."

They know better, they are just desperately grabbing at straw men. . .and it's hard to take seriously those who propose such nonsense.

just-me · May 31, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

I agree, and quote the scripture you mentioned. You make an excellent point! "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."

The other thing that can be comprehended is that God said more to Adam than what is recorded. all we have (for the most part) is that Adam heard God walking in the garden. In other words, Adam recognized, and heard God's presence. The mind can wander thinking about hearing the walking knowing that recognition of someone mandates a previous understanding of that particular one.

just-me · May 31, 2015

Elin said:

peacefulbeliever said:

If it was good when God created it, why change what is good in the sight of God. Humans didn't do the creating? If that were the case, then I could agree with Elin. God created all flesh, and Jesus creates a new man, not animals in their original form. Animals didn't fall from grace, only humans. It's simple.

"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:25

just-us-2 · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

There was one animal that did change - the serpent. It may well have had legs before it deceived Eve and because of that God made it the lowest of animals crawling on its belly from then on. That is the only instance though, that I know of, where God changed an animal and that was as punishment. The serpent was cursed because Satan used it.

Jeff_56 · May 31, 2015

back to the op. just read the Bible. then there's not even such a question.

biblehub.com/galatians/3-17.htm‎ .... The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later ...

later when God gave the law to Moses.

Jeff_56 · May 31, 2015

just-us-2 said:

it may "appear" that way. keep researching the hebrew customs and language,
or
even more if you have the patience(to wait on yahweh) ask yahweh for his revelation...

((or both!... why not!? )) .... boils down simply to : seek yahweh.(the creator)....

it(the truth about everything) is quite different than

the heresy rcc has propagated.

just-me · May 31, 2015

just-us-2 said:

I stand corrected on the sneeky snake LOL. It is true that God didn't originally create the serpant in a corrupt form. But becasue of God's curse, (well warranted) the serpent crawls on its belly.

just-me · May 31, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

It was an article that I presented. It seems to have validity because of the name (character) of God represented in His Word. It's foundation to me is God's mercy and righteous judgments. I started this thread because there are many (IMO) that don't read the Bible in context. So many want to explain away how Jesus changes us, but rather concentrate on God's rearranging His plan so that we are accepted by Him through Christ. To me, that is totally upside down (backwards) understanding.

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?"
Isaiah 29:16

kennethcadwell · May 31, 2015

I do believe the 10 Commandments were in affect before Moses received them, they were just never in written form and put into a book of ordinances called the Mosaic laws.

However the 10 Commandments did not end with Christ..............

They are still in full affect today as the Lord taught and Apostle Paul also showed that by when a person is a born again believer by walking in the fruits of the Spirit, love being the greatest fruit, that love will uphold the 10 Commandments plus any other commands given by the Lord.

[h=1]Romans 13:9-10[/h]9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”[a] “You shall not covet,”[b] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[c] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

And here is a chart that shows other places where the 10 Commandments are upheld in the NT:

Old Testament New Testament
--------------- ----------------

First
Commandment
Exodus 20:3;
Deuteronomy 5:7 Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7

Second
Commandment
Exodus 20:4-6;
Deuteronomy 5:8-10 Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5

Third
Commandment
Exodus 20:7;
Deuteronomy 5:11 Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7

Fourth
Commandment
Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15 Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6

Fifth
Commandment
Exodus 20:12;
Deuteronomy 5:16 Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3

Sixth
Commandment
Exodus 20:13;
Deuteronomy 5: 17 Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9

Seventh
Commandment
Exodus 20:14;
Deuteronomy 5:18 Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9

Eighth
Commandment
Exodus 20:15;
Deuteronomy 5:19 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21

Ninth
Commandment
Exodus 20:16;
Deuteronomy 5:20 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25

10th
Commandment
Exodus 20:17;
Deuteronomy 5:21 Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3, 5

just-us-2 · May 31, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

Not sure what you are getting at here. The serpent may have had legs is not the same as claiming it did because we don't know for sure. We do know that God made some kind of change to that creature because scripture tells us He did.

Genesis 3:14-15
14 ADONAI, God, said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all livestock and wild animals. You will crawl on your belly and eat dust as long as you live.
15 I will put animosity between you and the woman, and between your descendant and her descendant; he will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel."

ויאמר יהוה אלהים אל-הנחש, כי עשית זאת, ארור אתה מכל-הבהמה, ומכל חית השדה; על-גחנך תלך, ועפר תאכל כל-ימי חייך

And the Lord God called to the snake, because you have done this, you are cursed from all cattle, and every beast of the field; In [this curse] go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.

Jeff_56 · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

think...

much much later, who is called a snake..... who is called a serpent..... who is called appearing as if "an angel of light" .....

don't think too much about it.... pray and roll it over into yahweh's care... he may surprise you.(very very much)...

if he wants to.... of course !

just-me · May 31, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

I agree with the spiritual concepts. I don't understand what you are presenting and what I should think however. Please enlighten me about what you are trying to tell me. Thank you.

Are you possibly endorsing that Satan was actually the snake, and not part of Yahweh's original creation, before Satan used it to deceive Eve?

peacefulbeliever · May 31, 2015

just-me said:

We have evidence of God speaking to Adam, God speaking to Noah, God speaking to Abraham, etc. I don't believe that EVERYTHING he spoke was written . . . although he has enough written that we DO KNOW that he spoke to them.

Elin · Jun 1, 2015

just-me said:

Have you read the Bible. . .do you believe the entire NT?

If it were good when God created it (Gen 9:3), why change what is good to unclean in Leviticus?

Until Leviticus. . .

Did the Ten Commandments Precede Moses?

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