Did the Ten Commandments Precede Moses?

[Elin]

Law of Moses or God’s Law?
The Ten Commandments were never called the law of Moses, but rather the law of God. First, understand this! The law of Moses consisted of (1) the civil laws, which were statutes and judgments that Moses relayed to the people from God, recorded in Exodus 21-23 and in the remaining books of the law and (2) the ritualistic laws (or ergon) that were added later,summarized in Hebrews 9:10.

And there were the moral laws written by the finger of God in stone.

They were ordinances regulating the job of the tribe of Levi in temple service and sacrifices (Leviticus 1-7) and associated functions. The Greek word ergon means “works,” as in the “works of the law,” as found in Galatians 2:16. This refers to the labor involving the Levitical rituals that were abolished by Christ’s sacrifice.

Works of the law are all good deeds required by the Mosaic code.

The Ten Commandments were already in force long before they were officially given to Israel at Mount Sinai.

There is no Biblical basis for this statement. . .that is conjecture.

There was no law given between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:13-14).

In fact, they have existed since the creation of man.
The Ten Commandments were never part of the law of Moses or the Levitical sacrificial system.

The Ten Commandments were given to Moses at Sinai (Ex 20:1-17), as were as much a part of the law of Moses as were the other laws (Ex 20-24).

The civil laws and sacrifices were based onGod’s commandments, which constitute the core of God’s laws.

No, the Sinaitic Covenant was based on the Mosaic law.

The Ten Commandments were the terms of the Sinaitic covenant (Ex 34:28b,Dt 4:13), so that the terms "law" and "covenant" were used interchangeably (Ex 34:28b; Dt 4:13).

Thus, the Ten Commandments precede and transcend any and every lesser law or practice based upon them—statutes, judgments, precepts, and ordinances.

Not so. . .there was no law between Adam and Moses.

The Ten Commandments are God’s spiritual laws (Rom. 7:12, 14).[/quote]
The Decalogue are God's moral laws.

You are starting a controversy here by your disagreement with NT teaching.

 

[Elin]

Sin defined
Before proving that the Ten Commandments have existed since the creation of man,

The Bible states no such thing.

we need to understand the Bible definition of sin: “Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for
sin is the transgression of the law” (I John 3:4).

And where there is no law there is no sin, for sin is not imputed against anyone (Ro 5:13-14).
No one sinned beetween Adam and Moses by breaking a command (Ro 5:14).

So don't try to erect a construct whereby the Decalogue was in force between Adam and Moses,
for it would have to mean that all fallen mankind was sinless between Adam and Moses.

Let the record show that you have started a controversy. . .and are to be marked, according to you.

 

[Elin]

Man’s First Sin
In the Garden of Eden, God talked to Adam and gave him clear, understandable instructions. Adam needed this. He was an adult with an adult mind, but God had to reveal to him the spiritual boundaries that Adam could not discover on his own, without breaking God’s laws. Genesis 2:15 states, “And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.” And Romans 6:23 states “the wages of sin is death.”

Adam was given instructions on how to maintain the garden. He was also commanded not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (not to decide for himself what is right or wrong), and was told what the penalty would be for disobeying this command.

God revealed to Adam, and to his wife, Eve, right knowledge about how to live. But He gave them the freedom to decide whether or not they would follow His way. This was free moral agency, which God has given to all mankind.
Satan, in the form of a serpent, told Eve that if she took the fruit of the forbidden tree, “You shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil” (Gen. 3:4-5). Being gullible in the face of Satan’s shrewd tactics, Eve fell for his deception and ate from the tree, as did Adam.

Adam sinned by acting against God’s command. He broke God’s law. In doing so, he became the servant of the one whom he obeyed—Satan. This principle is explained in Romans 6:16: “Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”

Whoever or whatever someone obeys and serves is his god. In this case, Adam and Eve broke the First Commandment by putting another god before the Creator God. In doing so, they also broke the Fifth Commandment, by dishonoring their Parent, in the sense that Adam was a created son of God (Luke 3:38). Their sin also involved stealing (the Eighth Commandment), in that they took something that was not theirs. Besides this, Eve lusted for the forbidden fruit. Lusting is coveting, which breaks the Tenth Commandment.

Breaking one commandment leads to breaking all of them.

Baloney. . .That's not what James said.

So who was Adam lead to murder?

This is precisely what the Apostle James expressed in James 2:10: “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” God’s laws are interrelated and intricately woven together—if you break one, you eventually break them all.

James says you are guilty of all if you break how many? . . .ONE.

You say you are guilty of all because "you eventually break them ALL."

This is the kind of baloney you produce by grinding the word of God into the Decalogue was in force with Adam.

 

[Elin]

Other Commandments in Force Before Sinai
The Bible gives examples of each of the Ten Commandments being kept before Moses’ time. When God called Jacob to return to Bethel, where God had appeared to him approximately 21 years before, Jacob warned his people,

"Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went." (Gen. 35:2-3).

Jacob knew that God forbade idolatry which was breaking the Second Commandment. By telling his household to put away their idols, this fulfilled the principle in Proverbs 16:6, “By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”

The second commandment is not all ten.

 

[Elin]

a good and through provoking post.

sin in the scripture is defined at least twice as, 'the transgression of the Law'.
and Paul clearly states that 'where no Law is there is no transgression'.

in order to 'sin', you have to transgress a Law' - Christ says of 'satan' that 'from the beginning he was a liar and a murderer',
so here are two specific transgressions mentioned in the Ten Commandments way before they were written in stone.

in Genesis 26, it says that Abraham has kept my Statutes, Laws and Commandments -
another interesting example is the incident with Joseph and Potiphar's wife - she is trying to lure him
into adultery and his response is something like this, 'how can I 'sin' against my God?

so, adultery was not only recognized as a 'transgression against Joseph's earthly master, but most importantly
a transgression against his Heavenly Master.

Yes, the natural law of our conscience tells us this, as well as others (Ro 2:14-15).

Genesis 50:17.
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the 'trespass' of thy brethren, and their 'sin'; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
in this particular incidence you have the dis-honoring of Jacob, their father, one of the Commandments they broke was
that they 'stole' Jacob's beloved son and they clearly broke the Commandment of 'thou shalt not hate thy brother' -
and most importantly of all, 'they broke the Great Commandment upon which hang all the Law and Prophets'.

so in conclusion, the beautiful part and the all encompassing Biblical Principle is, that where there is NO SIN,
there is NO FORGIVNESS - and we can surely say that Joseph wept bitterly in much sorrow, but joyfully in
his bountiful forgiveness.
as it is written;
PSALM 30:5.
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

 

[Elin]

all the Ten Commandments preceded Moses. From Adam to Moses, all men had sinned—had broken God’s laws, the Ten Commandments.

Nope. . .

You've got a problem with Ro 5:14:

"death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses over those who did not sin by breaking a command"

 

[Elin]

Genesis 1:29-30 Plants and Fruits that are allowed

Genesis 1:29-30 And Yahweh said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

Notice that in the beginning of the verse Yahweh says “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth and every tree with seed in its fruit”.

Yes, it was about berries and fruits.

There are so many levels of discussion here but we are going to stick to just a couple. Later in this verse, notice that HE changes and says “I have given every green plant for food” but doesn’t mention it needing to yield seed.

Yes, it was about vegetables.

Does Yahweh change?

Baloney. . .

What do berries, fruits and vegetables have to do with God changing?

So God changed when he changed the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order or Melchizedek?

 

[Elin]

Do you have any edifying words to write?

Yes, stop grinding God's word into the baloney of your false doctrine.

 

[MarcR]

Maybe you should study out the below link and then decide for yourself:

http://www.arielm.org/dcs/pdf/mbs021m.pdf

The link above illustrates what I have been saying on many threads about the differences between true Messianic Judaism, and the Hebrew roots movement. May I copy it to other locations?

 

[Hoffco]

I think it is very obvious as one reads the Bible,before the time of Moses, we see a Moral law and a ritual/ceremonial, sacrificial law from God being in effect. The laws revealed to Moses only developed God's rules, for the nation of Israel, just being formed by God. The laws before Moses were for the whole world as there were no distinction of nations, until the tower of Babal. Paul is saying that there were laws, because sinners died, but that "little law" was not like the "big laws" given to the nation of Israel. The "big law" was given to Israel to make them a reproach to the nations. Now "in Christ" God has destroyed/fulfilled, the "big laws" so now we are more like , "in the Beginning". We don't have the "yoke"too heavy to bear. Love to all ,Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

The traditional interpretation of Rom.2:15 is wrong. The reformation gave us a false view of the law of God being somehow in the heart of sinners. This is totally wrong. There is no moral law in the sinful heart of man. There seem to be a sense of right and wrong but the only guide for that is ,for the Gentile, is natural revelation Rom.1:20, which tells them that God exists and is all powerful. With the Jews, their sense of right and wrong come from the written law, the law of Moses, and Natural rev.. But, the "work of the law written in their hearts",Rom.2:15, is only for the born again Gentle and Jew. The saved person has the circumcision in the heart. Rom.2:29, "inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit.." Love to all, Hoffco