Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

[Nehemiah6]

The issue is not "believing Jesus" but believing ON the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter into the Kingdom of God through the New Birth.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13).


30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)


9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:9-13)

So it should be obvious that entrance into the Kingdom of God is by grace through faith, and it is a supernatural event. And obedience to Christ must follow immediately, first through believer's baptism, and then through all the instructions and admonitions given to believers in Scripture.

To believe "ON" Christ is to believe and obey the Gospel, which includes believing that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. Christ said to the Jews "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24). This is the same as Philip asking the Ethiopian "Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?" The Son of God is God (Heb 1:8,9).

 

[Marcelo]

I believe that the passage you quoted deals with how believers should treat one another.

If your lawyer claims to be a believer, you should have probably tried to recover your money through his church's mediation; otherwise you did fine.

No, my lawyer was not a believer -- veeeeery far from that.

The interesting thing is that Paul (the Lord Jesus after the cross) prohibits lawsuits among believers, but he does not prohibit lawsuits against non-believers, whereas the Lord Jesus (before the cross) prohibited lawsuits at all.

 

[MarcR]

Yahshua - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/yahshua▼
Yahshua is one proposed transliteration of the original Hebrew or Aramaic name of Jesus commonly used by individuals in the Sacred Name Movement. The English spelling Yahshua originates at least as early as 1950 with Angelo Traina' s The New Testament of our Messiah and Saviour Yahshua. The form Yahshua is ...

The proper Hebrew rendering of Jesus name is Yeshua meaning Salvation.

Jesus is the Greek transliteration of Yeshua.

Greek does not have a Y י sound so they approximate it with an Ἰη which also includes the e sound.
Greek does not have an sh שׁ sound so they approximate it with a σ.
Τhe Greek u approximates the oo sound of the וּ .
The Greek ς provides a masculine ending in place of the א.

Pointing the י yod of Yeshua with a patach יַ yah instead of a segohl יֶ Yeh changes the grammar unacceptably.

 

[loveme1]

No, my lawyer was not a believer -- veeeeery far from that.

The interesting thing is that Paul (the Lord Jesus after the cross) prohibits lawsuits among believers, but he does not prohibit lawsuits against non-believers, whereas the Lord Jesus (before the cross) prohibited lawsuits at all.

Marcelo, what do you mean by the Lord Jesus after the cross?

 

[Inquistor]

What should you have done with that lawyer? This is same verse you quoted. Amplified version, er translation of Luke 18:30 and 31:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Give away to everyone who begs of you [who is [SUP][r][/SUP]in want of necessities], and of him who takes away from you your goods, do not demand or require them back again.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And as you would like and desire that men would do to you, do exactly so to them.

Appears to me? Lawyers, may be in want, but not for necessities.

But if thief be found, he shall restore SEVENFOLD ... he shall give ALL the substance of his house.


Proverbs 6:31 Yet if he is caught, he must pay sevenfold, though ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]... But if he is found, he shall restore sevenfold; he
shall give up all the goods of his house. ... [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[tourist]

6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people?

Paul was talking about lawsuits among believers and my case was against my last employer (the company owner was not at all a Christian).

Apparently, neither was your lawyer.

 

[tourist]

You would probably get more replies to your poll if you get rid of that Yashua stuff and keep it about Jesus.

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo, what do you mean by the Lord Jesus after the cross?

The Lord Jesus after the cross means Paul, the Lord's spokesman.

 

[loveme1]

The Lord Jesus after the cross means Paul, the Lord's spokesman.

If I remember correctly from previous exchange, you Believe Paul proclaims a different Gospel to the Gentiles and the Lord’s Testimony was for the Jewish people.. or something along those lines?

i was worried for a moment that you were trying to equate Paul more than you ought to.

 

[BillG]

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We are saved as per above.

Grace = salvation through faith.
Nothing more or nothing less.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Which as a result we will walk in the ways that God had already prepared.


This is as a result of the outworking of grace in our lives.

 

[Locutus]

I few weeks ago I found out that my lawyer kept all the money I had won in a lawsuit. When I called him he said he wouldn't send me the money unless I first gave him a receipt. I said: "What? You want me to give you a receipt without having received the money? ... bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ... if you don't send me the money I'll file a complaint against you in the lawyers' licensing board."

I had to threaten my lawyer in order to receive my money. Now let's read Luke 6:30: Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Did I do wrong? What would you have done if you were in my shoes?

Of course you didn't do anything wrong - if you had issued a receipt for money not received then you would be lying - Luke 6:30 has nothing to do with your circumstance with your lawyer.

 

[Marcelo]

If I remember correctly from previous exchange, you Believe Paul proclaims a different Gospel to the Gentiles and the Lord’s Testimony was for the Jewish people.. or something along those lines?

i was worried for a moment that you were trying to equate Paul more than you ought to.

Yes, that's what I believe, at least for now.

 

[Locutus]

Paul only proclaimed one gospel:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

 

[Marcelo]

Paul only proclaimed one gospel:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Yes, but the Lord Jesus (before the cross) didn't talk about salvation by grace, did He?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Neither of those are correct. Sadly many people who make polls always leave out important possible responses.

1. There is no such things as believe apart from works. So the first question is invalid.

2. Those who have true faith WILL obey, so technically the second question is invalid, (it is invalid because i9t hints at works being required for5 salvation, and not a result of salvation.

there should be a third question.

3. those who have true faith are saved, and the result of this faith/salvation will be works. (Loving God, Loving others, and seeking the things of the spirit, in bearing fruit)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but the Lord Jesus (before the cross) didn't talk about salvation by grace, did He?

David understood grace. (Blessed is the man in whome God does not impute sin) How could he understand it if God did not explain it.

 

[trofimus]

Yes, but the Lord Jesus (before the cross) didn't talk about salvation by grace, did He?

What about this:

"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him."
J 3:14

Just by believing, which is grace, imho. But its true He was talking about future (cross)...

 

[Marcelo]

David understood grace. (Blessed is the man in whome God does not impute sin) How could he understand it if God did not explain it.

But did the Lord Jesus himself say anything about salvation by grace?

 

[Dan58]

We obey what we believe to be true. If I tell my wife that I didn't cheat on her, and then she slaps the heck out of me, she obviously didn't believe me. Jesus was our example, if we refuse to try and follow him, do we really believe? No reaction to what we claim to believe leaves our belief void. Ignoring the example of our Savior is a slap in the face to his righteousness. Obedience matters.. jmo

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But did the Lord Jesus himself say anything about salvation by grace?

Who was the God of Israel in the OT? Was it not preincarnat Jesus?