Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

[celib]

I agree and you siad this very well! May Yah bless you brother Blain!

Psalm 117:2, "For His lovingkindness is great toward us, And the truth of YHWH is everlasting. Praise YHWH!"

In the beginning was the word and the word was God and the word became flesh, what we have to believe is the word of God, if all we know is the word of some man and most people don't know the Word, it takes a lot of study. God bless

 

[joaniemarie]

I few weeks ago I found out that my lawyer kept all the money I had won in a lawsuit. When I called him he said he wouldn't send me the money unless I first gave him a receipt. I said: "What? You want me to give you a receipt without having received the money? ... bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ... if you don't send me the money I'll file a complaint against you in the lawyers' licensing board."

I had to threaten my lawyer in order to receive my money. Now let's read Luke 6:30: Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Did I do wrong? What would you have done if you were in my shoes?

Wow! Am not an expert or anything but sounds like your lawyer did something against his oath as a lawyer and would be in big trouble if you reported him to the bar association.

 

[MarcR]

It was nice to learn from you guys that there are prophecies about grace in the O.T., but Bible teachers in general say that Jesus never talked about salvation by grace during His stay on earth.

Jn 1:14-17
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
KJV

 

[Nehemiah6]

It was nice to learn from you guys that there are prophecies about grace in the O.T., but Bible teachers in general say that Jesus never talked about salvation by grace during His stay on earth.

Why do you pay any attention to these false teachers????

GRACE PERSONIFIED was walking on this earth as Jesus of Nazareth.

Did you notice what is stated in Luke 4:22? And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

If the Holy Spirit says through the apostle John (John 1:16,17): And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, shouldn't that settle the matter?

Adding "Sheesh" might be considered inappropriate, but that is what the reaction should be from Christians.

 

[joaniemarie]

Before Jesus died on the cross there was still a curtain (veil) up between the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle. Abraham's bosom (the holding place of the old testament saints) was still being used. But as SOON as the price for all sin was paid and Jesus said "it is finished" ........everything changed.

 

[joaniemarie]

Can we just believe in Yahshua/Jesus and not obey Him and enter the Kingdom of YHWH?

or

Should we believe and obey Yahshua/Jesus to enter the kingdom of YHWH?

I say believing and obeying Yahshua/Jesus is the narrow path to the kingdom.

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Luke 6:46-9, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say? “Everyone who is coming to Me, and is hearing My words and is doing them, I shall show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock. And when a flood came, the stream burst against that house, but was unable to shake it, for it was founded on the rock. But the one hearing and not doing, is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream burst, and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

Unless a person is saved - born again they cannot "DO" any good works for God. Once a person has been made into a "new creation and all things have passed away and all things have become new" then they can do the will of God because;

Gal.2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me.

Unless Christ is IN you., you don't have life. "He who has the Son has life., he who has not the Son of God has not life but the wrath of God abides on him."

 

[Nehemiah6]

Before Jesus died on the cross there was still a curtain (veil) up between the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle. Abraham's bosom (the holding place of the old testament saints) was still being used. But as SOON as the price for all sin was paid and Jesus said "it is finished" ........everything changed.

Of course, the New Covenant went into effect as soon as the Lord cried "It is finished". But that is not the point.

Every day that the Lord Jesus Christ walked on this earth He DEMONSTRATED the grace of God with His words and actions. For example, when He sat down to eat with the despised publicans and sinners, that was God's grace in action. When He spoke the parables of the Prodigal Son, the Lost Sheep, and the Lost Coin, those were illustrations of God's grace in action. So to falsely claim that Jesus never "mentioned" grace is sheer nonsense.

The fact that He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing was a stupendous demonstration of grace in action. And ultimately when the Lamb of God willingly and voluntarily endured the humiliation, the mocking, the spitting, the cursing, and the rejection of His enemies and went to the cross without a murmur, that was grace in action. When He asked the Father to forgive His mockers and His enemies, that was grace in action.

Everyone knows the saying that actions speak louder than words, but we have some quibbling over whether Christ *spoke* of grace. It just goes to show how little people really know and understand the Bible and Christ.

 

[Inquistor]

Who was the God of Israel in the OT? Was it not preincarnat Jesus?

Of course it was Jesus! The text below is a HYPERLINK which you can click on for more evidence!


John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't think we will find Jesus saying "Salvation by grace"

What we do find is Jesus saying Salvation by faith.
John 6:29


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

So when we repent of the sun of unbelief then we are saved by faith.

This is as a result of the grace of God.

It is the grace of God alone that saves.

Jesus did not have to say by salvation but grace.
As I said I think it's salvation by faith as a result of grace.

By faith through grace for........

 

[joaniemarie]

Of course, the New Covenant went into effect as soon as the Lord cried "It is finished". But that is not the point.

Every day that the Lord Jesus Christ walked on this earth He DEMONSTRATED the grace of God with His words and actions. For example, when He sat down to eat with the despised publicans and sinners, that was God's grace in action. When He spoke the parables of the Prodigal Son, the Lost Sheep, and the Lost Coin, those were illustrations of God's grace in action. So to falsely claim that Jesus never "mentioned" grace is sheer nonsense.

The fact that He healed absolutely everyone who came to Him for healing was a stupendous demonstration of grace in action. And ultimately when the Lamb of God willingly and voluntarily endured the humiliation, the mocking, the spitting, the cursing, and the rejection of His enemies and went to the cross without a murmur, that was grace in action. When He asked the Father to forgive His mockers and His enemies, that was grace in action.

Everyone knows the saying that actions speak louder than words, but we have some quibbling over whether Christ *spoke* of grace. It just goes to show how little people really know and understand the Bible and Christ.

Nehemiah., It's not that some people don't really understand grace or the Bible as good as you do., it's that you don't know how to read what is being posted and not read INTO what is being posted. There is a major CHANGE in the covenants when Jesus died on the cross and fulfilled the law 100% perfectly. Only Jesus could do what was required by God and what fallen human beings could not do. This topic has been discussed many times. Jesus met all the requirements and then He gives us the gift of righteousness.

Jesus taught the law because until He died it was not the new covenant yet. Jesus brought in the new covenant when He died. He told just as the old covenant saints did that there is a time coming and now is that the Lamb of God would take away the sins of the world. The old testament saints looked forward to the day when sins would no longer be counted against God's people. There would no longer be any condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus. Romans 8:1-2 But Jesus had to die first before there would be no condemnation anymore.


Jesus had to bring in grace and truth after Moses brought in the law. When Jesus told the disciples how to pray He told them "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors..." But today under the NEW covenant we forgive others because Christ has forgiven us. We don't forgive to be forgiven. Jesus did the work and we believe in His finished work. Now we forgive BECAUSE He first forgave us. We love BECAUSE He FIRST loved us... That is grace and truth... not the law. Amen!!

 

[dcontroversal]

The OT, is full of golden nuggets. The grace of God can be surely found, right from the time Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:8-9


8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”


The first act of grace.

Good knew what happened. Yet he called out "My kids where are you?
Genesis 3:21


21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.

Second act of grace he clothes for them.

Then he declares

Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

This references what happened on the cross.

Jesus sramoec on his head on the cruise and was fulfilled in Christ’s death, resurrection, and final victory over Satan.

Grace shown, grace revealed and grace accomplished.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The big picture....David should have been put to death for his sin under the law..yet the innocent son of David took his place and David was forgiven.....thou Son of David have mercy on me the man cried........grace through and through!

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[loveme1]

More law keeping drivel for hey......LOOK...NO MAN KEEPS THE LAW and NO MAN CAN PRODUCE FRUIT UNLESS ALREADY IN THE VINE.....IT IS faith and faith alone that saves and justifies a man before GOD.....once a man has been born from above ETERNALLY BY FAITH they can then begin to produce fruit after growth and maturity........

Hebrews 3
2Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.








We are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works not by them, Fact.

Yet it is written there is a beginning and we are to hold on until the end...

We are to hear and obey the Lord..

Faith is increased by obeying the Lord and counting ourselves unworthy servants.

All praise and glory belongs to GOD, there is no boast.

What you count as law keeping drivel... is the children of GOD loving their Heavenly Father and Neighbour through Faith while at liberty under Grace thanks to the Lord’s Victory.

After all the lawless are told to depart..

GOD’s Law is written in our hearts.. that is the New Covenant where the Just shall live by Faith.


Belief is how GOD sets us apart.. if we Believe then we are made new and Grafted in to the True Vine.. the Words of the Lord instruct us in Righteousness.

When we Believe it is not us doing but Christ in us and GOD keeping us through Faith.

Blessed are we indeed.

 

[Marcelo]

Did Jesus (before the cross) talk about salvation by grace?

Nehemiah6;3389255]Of course He did, and He did it several times. Here is one of the best examples (John 11:25,26):

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

It seems to me that Jesus (in the verse above) is not teaching how to be saved -- He is just prophesying that salvation (after the cross) would start by believing.

When the young rich man asked "what must I do to get eternal life" Jesus said "keep the commandments".

Here's another example just before that:I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. (John 10:9)

.
Ok, this verse is better, but Jesus doesn't say that salvation is by grace.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Eph 2:4-9 [FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 But because of his great love for us,God, who is rich in mercy,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with himin the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace,expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 For it is by graceyou have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 not by works, so that no one can boast.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.[/FONT]

 

[posthuman]

Hebrews 3
2Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.








We are saved by Grace through Faith unto good works not by them, Fact.

Yet it is written there is a beginning and we are to hold on until the end...

hold on to our confidence, it say. our assurance.




Strong's Concordance

hupostasis: a support, substance, steadiness, hence assurance​

Original Word: ὑπόστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hupostasis
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-os'-tas-is)
Short Definition: assurance, substance, reality
Definition: (lit: an underlying), (a) confidence, assurance, (b) a giving substance (or reality) to, or a guaranteeing, (c) substance, reality.

HELPS Word-studies
5287 hypóstasis (from 5259/hypó, "under" and 2476/hístēmi, "to stand") – properly, (to possess) standing under a guaranteed agreement ("title-deed"); (figuratively) "title" to a promise or property, i.e. a legitimate claim (because it literally is, "under a legal-standing") – entitling someone to what is guaranteed under the particular agreement.



same word here:

The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
(Hebrews 1:3) ​

 

[Marcelo]

Why do you pay any attention to these false teachers????

Because Jesus (while on earth) never really taught that salvation was by grace and that it was not by keeping the law.

When a man said to Jesus "I will follow you wherever you go" the Lord replied "foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." Salvation preached by Jesus before the cross was different from salvation after the cross.

What matters most in this discussion is the fact that Jesus did preach the law of Moses while He was on earth. The OP's question is "Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus? The OP is obviously questioning us why we don't obey ALL teachings of Jesus. The answer is: some of His teaching were only for the Jews during the dispensation of the law.[h=2][/h]xx

 

[posthuman]

.
Ok, this verse is better, but Jesus doesn't say that salvation is by grace.

how is it that He forgave sins by His word, preempting the demands of the Law, and restored people to health saying "your faith has healed you" or "made you whole" ?

 

[posthuman]

how is it that He forgave sins by His word, preempting the demands of the Law, and restored people to health saying "your faith has healed you" or "made you whole" ?

some only touched the hem of His robe! ♥

 

[posthuman]

I few weeks ago I found out that my lawyer kept all the money I had won in a lawsuit. When I called him he said he wouldn't send me the money unless I first gave him a receipt. I said: "What? You want me to give you a receipt without having received the money? ... bla bla bla ... bla bla bla ... if you don't send me the money I'll file a complaint against you in the lawyers' licensing board."

I had to threaten my lawyer in order to receive my money. Now let's read Luke 6:30: Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Did I do wrong? What would you have done if you were in my shoes?

well i can tell you from experience what i would do, because i am in the middle of doing it: i would waffle, undecided!

i currently have 3 lawsuits i am completely in the right to file for monies i have not been paid but am entitled to, and a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] and 5[SUP]th[/SUP] that are class actions i have every right to join - that i'm aware of. i don't *need* any of the monies. i'm undecided about the right thing to do, so i've held off on making decisions on all of them, because of turning over in my mind exactly the scripture you posted and other concerns, trying to ascertain the Way, two of them now for more than a year.

yep, i'd be paralyzed by indecision, pray, think, watch and wait until i was convinced i understood what action i should take, is what i would do ((personally))