Does God chose people?

[SeaBass]

why are you still harping about 'Calvanism'? i don't know anything about Calvinism; don't care to; i thought this thread was about God..

The bible does not teach Calvinistic election where God randomly selected some individuals to be saved unconditionally leaving the rest to be lost. Since the bible does not teach Calvinistic election, where is it coming from?

it's on God's basis. do you think God is 'random'?

let's try this again:

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,​

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”​

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh:

“I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”​

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
One of you will say to me:

“Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”​

But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?

“Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”​

Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

(Romans 9:14-24)

now i know you don't like it, and you'd rather satisfy your own carnal mind than simply respect the sovereignty of God, but that is the answer that scripture gives to exactly your question.
& it's not just Paul saying this:

Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’ or ‘Your work has no handles’?
Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’ or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
Thus says the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him:
“Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?
I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host.
(Isaiah 45:9-12)

and what was the answer God gave to Job?

Who is this that obscures my plans
with words without knowledge?
(Job 38:2)

so again Paul wrote:

“For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
(1 Corinthians 2:16)

now will we fear God, or will we tell Him how he ought to act?
forget "Calvin" and forget "post" and forget "SeaBass" and let's examine the scriptures themselves, and what the Word and the Spirit teach. they teach humility before a sovereign God, don't they? or do they teach that God waits on human logic before He shows mercy or compassion, before He judges or reproves? do the Scriptures teach that man knows the mind of God?

do we judge God or does God judge us? here is a quote from a man that they say had a little bit of wisdom:

Be not rash with your mouth, nor let your heart be hasty to utter a word before God,
for God is in heaven and you are on earth.
Therefore let your words be few.
(Ecclesiastes 5:2)

But what is the basis God uses to decide upon whom He will or will not have mercy? It appears you also are not able to fill in that gaping hole in Calvinist theology.

 

[SeaBass]

I just recently read all of Romans. The main idea, at least I felt like, was that God, by his Sovereign decree, chose to give Salvation to the Gentiles and not simply the Jews. The Jews would find this extremely repulsive as they believed God would only ever show them mercy. I think Paul uses such strong language to get it across to them that God chooses who he wants to save in terms of people groups. He chose Jacob over Esau (Israel over Edom) through whom Jesus would come and he chose not just the Jews, but the entire world to bring His Salvation to.

I didn't get the impression (although I can certainly see the confusion) that God picks and chooses at random who would be saved.

You post "...chose to give Salvation to the Gentiles and not simply the Jews..."

That salvation comes in the form of Christ/Christianity. Gentiles and Jews must become Christians to be saved. God predetermined the group 'Christian' would be saved but God never predetermined what individuals would or would not be a Christian, that is a choice each person makes.

 

[SeaBass]

In the light of practicality, it doesn't matter. I see God's sovereignty in election throughout Scripture, but a person doesn't need to see that in order to be saved.

I realize that some criticize those who hold to election, but I still don't see the point in all heresy cries and insults.

Some seem to have the impression that eternal security makes Believers sin, and that election makes God evil:
Those are untrue, and fruitless accusations. Please stick to the ACTUAL issue at hand, not preconceived notions of the results of holding to a doctrine (unless you have an actual example, and even then, it is really not an appropriate form of debate).

The bible DOES teach predestination and election, that God predestinated, foreknew a GROUP 'Christian' that would be saved. Yet God did not predetermined what individuals would or would not be in that group. So if one is not in that group it is not God's fault, culpability. One must choose to obey Christ's gospel to be in the group, Heb 5:9, those that obey not cannot be in this group and will be lost, 2 Thess 1:8.

Calvinistic predestination has God, before the world began, choosing some individuals unconditionally to be saved leaving the rest to be lost, man has no choice in the matter. God then is at fault for the lost for it is not the fault of the lost God did not choose them. But Calvinism cannot tell us why God choose some/had mercy on some and not others.

 

[gregfl]

Calvinism derived its 3 classes ultimately from the 3 classes in Valentinian Gnosticism (see Ireneaus’ five books Against Heresies):
1. Pneumatics (spirituals) – The elect of the elect.
2. Psuchics (soulys) – The average elect.
3. Hylics (carnals) – The non-elect.

 

[LT]

Calvinism derived its 3 classes ultimately from the 3 classes in Valentinian Gnosticism (see Ireneaus’ five books Against Heresies):
1. Pneumatics (spirituals) – The elect of the elect.
2. Psuchics (soulys) – The average elect.
3. Hylics (carnals) – The non-elect.

Calvinism/reformed theology doesn't have 3 classes.... only 2: believers/ non-believers.

Comparing a doctrine to a well known heresy doesn't prove it's heresy...



You can compare a mouse to an elephant, but that doesn't mean they are the same size, or have the same mother.

 

[gregfl]

Calvin believed in three categories of election: the non-elect, the called elect, and the chosen elect. This necessarily denies assurance because the called elect don’t know for certain whom among them have been chosen. Calvin stated this in no uncertain terms: Let us, therefore, embrace Christ, who is kindly offered to us, and comes forth to meet us: he will number us among his flock, and keep us within his fold. But anxiety arises as to our future state. For as Paul teaches, that those are called who were previously elected, so our Savior shows that many are called, but few chosen (Mt. 22:14). Nay, even Paul himself dissuades us from security, when he says, “Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall,” (1 Cor. 10:12). And again, “Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not high-minded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee,” (Rom. 11:20, 21). In fine, we are sufficiently taught by experience itself, that calling and faith are of little value without perseverance, which, however, is not the gift of all (CI 3.24.6).

 

[gregfl]

You can be called, and you can have faith, but that doesn’t seal the deal, said Calvin: The expression of our Savior, “Many are called, but few are chosen,” (Mt. 22:14), is also very improperly interpreted (see Book 3, chap. 2, sec. 11, 12). There will be no ambiguity in it, if we attend to what our former remarks ought to have made clear—viz. that there are two species of calling: for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness (CI 3.24.8).

 

[preacha24_7]

Yes God chooses people. God is not a respecter of persons. Make sure you look for biblical answers. Man's opinion will lead you down the wrong way especially if their opinions are not based on the truth in God's word. Here are some scriptures that will help you. 1Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron. God called Jeremiah. Jeremiah 1:4-5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you. All these scriptures come from the New King James Version. I got one more scripture for you. 1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. God desires for all of his children to grow in the knowledge of the word of God. Let the power of the Holy Ghost reveal the plan that God has for your life. Believe God's word and don't put up with Satan's lies. He'll try to lie to you. I'm not putting up with the devil and his lies anymore. I know that God has wonderful things for me in 2014, and I'm believing to see miracles signs wonders and greater anointing and more Holy Ghost power in my life. Have a nice day. Preacha24-7