Does God Foreknow People, or Events, or Both? Which does Romans 8:28-30 refer to?

[Johnny_B]

There is a gospel tune called "Whossoever Will to the Lord May Come." I have always believed this to be true.

When we turn to God in Jesus Christ while in this age, we become known by God. Not being yet in the Kingdom, you may say honestly we are foreknown by Him.

Do you know anyone who has seen His face? No man has seen God, but when we come to Him by Jesus Christ He knows us long before we are with Him in the Kingdom.

It is a twisted notion to believe all who are saved were "forknown" before cration: wju a meed fpr Cjrost¡s agpmu of we were añreadu saved¿

Are you saying God is not omniscient?

 

[Johnny_B]

Scripture gives us the order of how a man is regenerated by the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1. Hear the gospel of your salvation, the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins.
2. Trust/believe that gospel for salvation
3. Holy Spirit seals you for the day of redemption which is the adoption as a child of God(Romans 8:23, Ephesians 1:5), being conformed to the image of Christ. Your soul is made a new creature that's waiting for the body to be redeemed. The redemption is a future thing.

Interesting how you left out verse 11, which sets the context. "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,"

 

[JaumeJ]

Nice word.......is it not written God is everywhere........in more florid words of course because it praises Him.

The highest heights, the most profound depths.......in the darkest dark.........in the brightest of light.......

If anyone does not believe this.........try to run away from the Almighty and Most High God. Blessed be Jesus Christ.

Try not to reach to hard to derive somethng that is not from a post, it will pull your spiritual muscles.

Are you saying God is not omniscient?

 

[Johnny_B]

And what of those who God does not regenerate before they repent and have faith? You cannot escape the devil you make of God.

They can't repent or have faith because they can't see a need for anything to do with the kingdom of God.

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

I Corinthians 12:2 "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

So they can not call on the name of the Lord, unless by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Johnny_B]

Like I said, you cannot escape the devil you make of God.

Romans 2:11 "For there is no partiality with God."

Ephesians 6:9 "And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him."

Colossians 3:25 "But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality."

He's not partial to those with faith or any other religious work , His election is according to the purpose of His will.

 

[Johnny_B]

A god who would mock us by proclaiming over and over again, "believe and you will receive", but then denies us the very ability to believe, is not God, but a devil.

Brother it's in the context of His will.

John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

 

[Johnny_B]

Did God foreknow that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would change His mind and not destroy them?

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Yes He did, that's why He had the great fish swallow him up to get him to go to Nineveh. Because He knew they would repent.

 

[Johnny_B]

I agree. God will show mercy and forgive, but if God said He was going to destroy them in forty days and He ended up not destroying them, you have two choices:

1. God lied because He knew all along He was not going to destroy them, or
2. God did not lie but simply changed His mind based on their response to His word.

Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

God's holiness requires that He judge sin, in that holiness He forgives sin, so He never was outside of His nature. Nineveh was the capitol of Assyria, which God used to take the 10 tribes into captivity, as a judgement against their rebellion. He got to repent so He could use them in the judgement of Israel.

 

[Johnny_B]

Nice word.......is it not written God is everywhere........in more florid words of course because it praises Him.

The highest heights, the most profound depths.......in the darkest dark.........in the brightest of light.......

If anyone does not believe this.........try to run away from the Almighty and Most High God. Blessed be Jesus Christ.

Try not to reach to hard to derive somethng that is not from a post, it will pull your spiritual muscles.

No, sorry I copy and pasted that and it looks like I copied the wrong one. Omniscience, is what I was trying to post.

 

[valiant]

thats just a fancy way oof saying God prevents some from believing, But forces others to believe..

God doesn't require force. He works in us what He will.

And there you go wiht your sarcasm again, DO you ever have anything nice to say to anyone?

If you think that to warn people about talking loosely about God (as I do also to myself) is sarcasm then I pity you.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Interesting how you left out verse 11, which sets the context. "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,"

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow - what he did foreknow and predestinate was that those who believe in the only begotten Son would be conformed into the image of his Son

30) moreover those who believe, have faith in Jesus Christ become part of the called out, i.e. the church, the body of Christ, they are justified and they will be gloried (29,30 sanctification) - God's plan and purpose

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption - those who have faith in Jesus Christ become sons and daughters by faith - God's predestinated plan and purpose

Ephesians 1:11 In Him - through faith in Jesus Christ

we have obtained an inheritance - we are joint heirs with Christ

being predestined - to receive this inheritance through faith in Jesus Christ

according to the purpose of Him - this is God's purpose to those who believe, i.e. have faith in Jesus Christ

according to the counsel of His will - God's will and purpose for those who believe, i.e. have faith in Jesus Christ, to become sons and daughters and obtain an inheritance

 

[valiant]

If God knew before hand that He was not going to destroy Nineveh, then God lied. I agree, God knew before hand that if Nineveh repents of their wickedness, He in turn would repent. The question was: What was Nineveh's response going to be at hearing of their future destruction? When God saw them repent and heard their cries toward Him, He repented. Simple.

So you don't think that God knew beforehand what would happen?

 

[valiant]

Don't assume when it comes to God's word. That would be adding to it based upon an ideology. Take it as it stands and believe it.

well I think that God intended us to use our brains when studying His word. Those who 'take it as it stands' soon find themselves involved in contradictions because of the many different approaches taken in it.

 

[jaybird88]

The decisions of the council didn't reflect Constantine's views...Constantine was an Arian and denied the full deity of Jesus. The bishops at Nicaea, about 300 in number, were composed of many men who suffered extreme persecution, including having body parts removed by their persecutors. They were not compromisers.

I can see how an anti-Trinitarian like yourself would seek to disparage the councils, though, since your heretical views were refuted by church councils.

my position is people should b free to follow Jesus how the spirit leads them, not be forced against their will to believe what a council tells them of fear of being burned alive.
if a group of murderers and destroyers wants to label me a heretic i am ok with it as i want nothing to do with those fruits.

 

[valiant]

my position is people should b free to follow Jesus how the spirit leads them, not be forced against their will to believe what a council tells them of fear of being burned alive.
if a group of murderers and destroyers wants to label me a heretic i am ok with it as i want nothing to do with those fruits.

but the question is whether the spirit that is leading you is the Holy Spirit?

 

[Johnny_B]

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow - what he did foreknow and predestinate was that those who believe in the only begotten Son would be conformed into the image of his Son

30) moreover those who believe, have faith in Jesus Christ become part of the called out, i.e. the church, the body of Christ, they are justified and they will be gloried (29,30 sanctification) - God's plan and purpose

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption - those who have faith in Jesus Christ become sons and daughters by faith - God's predestinated plan and purpose

Ephesians 1:11 In Him - through faith in Jesus Christ

we have obtained an inheritance - we are joint heirs with Christ

being predestined - to receive this inheritance through faith in Jesus Christ

according to the purpose of Him - this is God's purpose to those who believe, i.e. have faith in Jesus Christ

according to the counsel of His will - God's will and purpose for those who believe, i.e. have faith in Jesus Christ, to become sons and daughters and obtain an inheritance

Romans 2:11 "For there is no partiality with God."

Ephesians 6:9 "And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him."

I Peter 1:17 "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay"

If God chose someone because He seen their faith in the future that would make Him partial to those with faith and it would be by grace through faith, it would be, by faith through grace. Which would make Ephesians 2:8-9 a lie. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast." A person choosing Christ or choosing to have faith is a work, not of grave.

Read Romans 3:10-18 man in his sinful state hates God and would never chose Him. Here what Paul says about election and the people that are chosen.

Romans 9:11 "for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls" If election was by a seen faith by God, this was the perfect place for the Holy Spirit to mention that, it would read like this. For the children not yet born, having faith in the Savior, that the purpose of foreseen election would stand, not of Him who calls but by faith.

 

[jaybird88]

By the way, you join the ranks of atheists, Muslims, cultists, Sabbatarians, and those who reject the canon of Scripture in your remarks..they all fixate on criticizing the councils of the church.

Constantine actually only presided over the Council at Nicaea so I am not sure where you are getting your "councils" remark. And, as I said previously, his views are not the ones that the council decided were orthodox. He was an Arian, rejecting the full deity of Jesus, and the council affirmed Jesus' deity.

So, in reality, Constantine was more like you..an anti-Trinitarian..so don't be so hard on him

And, if I had my way, I'd kick every anti-Trinitarian off the site, except younger believers who don't know any better and need proper instruction on the doctrine.

Constintine worshiped apollo and Revelation calls apollo the antichrist. it was also by his order that all works of Arian burned along with all the source scripture Arian used for his writing.
its a shame your werent born 800 yrs back, you would have fit right in with the inquisitions. where does such hate come from i wonder?

 

[jaybird88]

but the question is whether the spirit that is leading you is the Holy Spirit?

that would be between me and the Most High, i dont think the Spirit is to be used as a tool against others.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Romans 2:11 "For there is no partiality with God."

Ephesians 6:9 "And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him."

I Peter 1:17 "And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay"

Correct - God is no respecter of persons - whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

If God chose someone because He seen their faith in the future that would make Him partial to those with faith and it would be by grace through faith, it would be, by faith through grace. Which would make Ephesians 2:8-9 a lie. "

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,not of works, lest anyone should boast." A person choosing Christ or choosing to have faith is a work, not of grave.

I don't believe I said God chooses someone based upon their future faith . . . I am saying that those who believe in the only begotten Son of God shall not perish but have eternal life . . . I am saying that those who confess Jesus as Lord and believe in their hearts that God raised him from the dead - they are saved - and because they confessed Jesus as Lord it is predestined that they will be conformed into the image of his Son, predestined that they are adopted by God, predestined to obtain an inheritance being joint heirs with Christ. Ephesians 2:8,9 . . . Yes, salvation is the gift of God - How do we receive salvation? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. . .

Read Romans 3:10-18 man in his sinful state hates God and would never chose Him. Here what Paul says about election and the people that are chosen.

Romans 9:11 "for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls" If election was by a seen faith by God, this was the perfect place for the Holy Spirit to mention that, it would read like this. For the children not yet born, having faith in the Savior, that the purpose of foreseen election would stand, not of Him who calls but by faith.

"Man in his sinful state hate him and would never chose him" - Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If man was SOOOO degenerate - how does he hear the word of God and come to faith in Jesus Christ? There comes a point in time where man makes a decision - where man repents and turns to God.

Romans 9:3,4a For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites . . .

Not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac (For the children being not yet born . . . ), i.e. speaking of Rebecca's children - Esau and Jacob - which symbolize two nations) - this section in context is written to Israel.

 

[Chokmahiel]

Destiny. No one can change destiny. It's almost like I have no choice but to fulfill it. Perhaps it was foreseen long a go. A good example of fate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Happy April Fool's Day lol!