Does God Foreknow People, or Events, or Both? Which does Romans 8:28-30 refer to?

[FreeNChrist]

FreeNChrist,
re: "It was how the Apostle John referred to himself."

How do you know that? Where does the writer of John identify himself as "the disciple that Jesus loved"?

Who do you think John was referring to then?

 

[valiant]

Who was chosen for it? Those who would be found in Him. In who? In Christ.

THEY were chosen before the foundation of the world.

read Romans 9

 

[rstrats]

FreeNChrist,
re: "Who do you think John was referring to then?"

I have no idea to whom the writer of the book of "John" was referring. The writer doesn't say.

 

[FreeNChrist]

FreeNChrist,
re: "Who do you think John was referring to then?"

I have no idea to whom the writer of the book of "John" was referring. The writer doesn't say.

Since you have no idea, I'll just stick with mine then.

 

[wsblind]

THEY were chosen before the foundation of the world.

read Romans 9

Roman 9:14~~New American Standard Bible
What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!


Romans 1:17~~New International Version
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

New American Standard Bible
Before the LORD, for He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness And the peoples with equity.

 

[John146]

THEY were chosen before the foundation of the world.

read Romans 9

They were not chosen, but the heavenly blessings that would given to those in Christ. It does not say those chosen to be in him. Let's read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The destination for those in Christ are in accord to the heavenly blessings that God has chosen to give us. Who's us? Those who are in him, in Christ. Scripture gives us the way in Christ, through the gospel.

According to your view of Ephesians 1, our destination has already been given to us. What's the adoption?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Those who are in Christ are waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. It's a future thing. It's our destination. Pre...destination. It hasn't happened yet, although salvation has happened to those in Christ. Salvation is not the end of the story for those in Christ. Our final destination is to be the praise of God's glory. That's going to occur at the adoption, when our body will match our inner man. We will be totally redeemed. Amen.

 

[valiant]

They were not chosen, but the heavenly blessings that would given to those in Christ. It does not say those chosen to be in him.

It looks that way to billions.

Let's read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

see. chosen US in Him.

 

[valiant]

They were not chosen, but the heavenly blessings that would given to those in Christ. It does not say those chosen to be in him. Let's read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The destination for those in Christ are in accord to the heavenly blessings that God has chosen to give us. Who's us? Those who are in him, in Christ. Scripture gives us the way in Christ, through the gospel.

There's none as blind as those who can't see.. If it just means that He chose Christ then it is a meaningless passage. Paul is telling us a truism.

According to your view of Ephesians 1, our destination has already been given to us. What's the adoption?

That follows God's initial choice ad is because of it.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

yes having been chosen we have to wait for its outworking.

Those who are in Christ are waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

It is those chosen before the foundation of the world who are awaiting the adoption, because of Christ and His work.

It's a future thing. It's our destination. Pre...destination. It hasn't happened yet, although salvation has happened to those in Christ.

it is actually both present and future. But we have been chosen and therefore saved since the foundation of the world.

Those who are in Christ were chosen before the foundation of the world, and at that moment their salvation was guaranteed.

Salvation is not the end of the story for those in Christ.

of course it is in this life.

Our final destination is to be the praise of God's glory.

that is what God's salvation of us achieves.

That's going to occur at the adoption, when our body will match our inner man. We will be totally redeemed. Amen.

we are already adopted as sons (Rom 8.15)

 

[valiant]

They were not chosen, but the heavenly blessings that would given to those in Christ. It does not say those chosen to be in him. Let's read:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The destination for those in Christ are in accord to the heavenly blessings that God has chosen to give us. Who's us? Those who are in him, in Christ. Scripture gives us the way in Christ, through the gospel.

There's none as blind as those who can't see.. If it just means that He chose Christ then it is a meaningless passage. Paul is telling us a truism.

According to your view of Ephesians 1, our destination has already been given to us. What's the adoption?

That follows God's initial choice ad is because of it.

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

yes having been chosen we have to wait for its outworking.

Those who are in Christ are waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

It is those chosen before the foundation of the world who are awaiting the adoption, because of Christ and His work.

It's a future thing. It's our destination. Pre...destination. It hasn't happened yet, although salvation has happened to those in Christ.

it is actually both present and future. But we have been chosen and therefore saved since the foundation of the world.

Those who are in Christ were chosen before the foundation of the world, and at that moment their salvation was guaranteed.

Salvation is not the end of the story for those in Christ.

of course it is in this life.

Our final destination is to be the praise of God's glory.

that is what God's salvation of us achieves.

That's going to occur at the adoption, when our body will match our inner man. We will be totally redeemed. Amen.

we are already adopted as sons (Rom 8.15) because He chose us before the foundation of the world, and our being chosen and all that follows came to us because of what Christ would do. He too was 'slain before the foundation of the world'. In God's eyes it all happened then. The remainder is just His outworking of it.

 

[sparkman]

Constintine worshiped apollo and Revelation calls apollo the antichrist. it was also by his order that all works of Arian burned along with all the source scripture Arian used for his writing.
its a shame your werent born 800 yrs back, you would have fit right in with the inquisitions. where does such hate come from i wonder?

Constantine was an Arian and the name is Arius not Arian. Revelation never mentions Apollos. Where do you get your theology and alleged knowledge of church history?

 

[sparkman]

FreeNChrist,
re: "It was how the Apostle John referred to himself."

How do you know that? Where does the writer of John identify himself as "the disciple that Jesus loved"?

Its not essential to my point. The fact is that Jesus had a unique affection to a specific disciple. Most scholars would agree with me that it was John though for the reasons I indicated.

 

[sparkman]

When all is said and done God has exhaustive foreknowledge and he knows every person who will be saved and there is zero chance anyone will be saved other than this group.

 

[jaybird88]

No it is something that the people of God has to consider. God has left us to judge. And while none of us are infallibly guided, your position is unscriptural we judge accordingly

being led by the spirit and not the group is unscriptual?

 

[jaybird88]

Constantine was an Arian and the name is Arius not Arian. Revelation never mentions Apollos. Where do you get your theology and alleged knowledge of church history?

Rev 9 11
They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.

many have believed Apollyon is Apollo.
i read rome ordered all works of Arius to be destroyed. is this false?

 

[John146]

It looks that way to billions.

Let's read:



see. chosen US in Him.

Chosen who? Us, in Him. See...it does not say that He chose us TO BE in Him. It says He chose us in Him. Chose us in Him for what? Chose us in Him to receive the heavenly blessings that He determined before the foundation of the world to give to those who are in Christ. That's what it says. The heavenly blessings are in accord to what God chose to give to those in Him, in Christ.

Calvinists add the phrase "to be in Him." It's simply not there.

 

[John146]

we are already adopted as sons (Rom 8.15)

v15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We have received the Spirit of adoption which is our guarantee that the adoption will take place. Keep reading...

v23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The Spirit has promised that the adoption will have. It's a future event for those who are in Christ. The adoption is the redemption of our body.

 

[John146]

When all is said and done God has exhaustive foreknowledge and he knows every person who will be saved and there is zero chance anyone will be saved other than this group.

Well, He's willing that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. He's not willing that any perish. Men die perish every day without the Lord. Men go against God's will every day. Most days, if not every day, I go against God's will.

 

[valiant]

being led by the spirit and not the group is unscriptual?

when the spirit in question is not the Holy Spirit, yes.

 

[valiant]

v15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We have received the Spirit of adoption which is our guarantee that the adoption will take place. Keep reading...

v23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The Spirit has promised that the adoption will have. It's a future event for those who are in Christ. The adoption is the redemption of our body.

Gal 4.5-7 that he might redeem them which were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7
So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
. Enough said,

 

[John146]

Gal 4.5-7 that he might redeem them which were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7
So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
. Enough said,

Yes, those in Christ are counted as sons already. Why? Because the Holy Spirit has guaranteed the adoption will take place. Remember, the adoption is the redemption of our body. See again Romans 8:23. I don't know about you, but my body has not been redeemed. That's a future event the Holy Spirit has sealed to those in Christ.