Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[Angela53510]

Desert Rose, I completed my MDiv in 2013, at a Canadian seminary, which will remain nameless, to protect my privacy and theirs. If you want me to private message it to you, I can. We had quite a few Americans enrolled in the on-line program.

However, it is graduate level, meaning you need an undergrad degree, or some kind of life experience. I guess you could ask them. In order to get a degree, however, you must take 1/3 of the courses on campus. Those are usually week long intensives, which were very important in getting to know the professors and the other students. Of course, that means being close enough to come to these intensives. I lived 3 hours away, and made the journey at least twice a year. Some people did drop out because of that. Still, I would imagine that if you just want to take courses, not worry about the degree, they could arrange something.

I will agree some people have been deceived into thinking they are saved, by saying a sinner's prayer, usually, when they are not. David Platt has a very good article on this! Which is not to say that people cannot be saved as they recite a sinner's prayer, just that it is all about God, his work in our hearts and lives. He calls, and we obey. Not sure how we could ever be saved OR stay saved without the Holy Spirit working in our hearts and lives.

Here is that article! It is long, but a good read!

David Platt: What I Really Think About the 'Sinner's Prayer,' Conversion, Mission, and Deception | Christianity Today

 

[oyster67]

I agree with you. I also feel saved and safe in the arms of the Lord. There's no way I'd get to be in God's presence if it depended on me. I fail so many times and I know it.

It's been many years that Jesus spoke to me and I don't see how I could ever desert Him.
But does this mean it's impossible?

Why did both Jesus and the Apostles, incl Paul, beg us to live a Godly life and to hold firm till the end, and all those other warnings if it's not possible to lose salvation? Why waste their breath? it seems to me that if they did this, then they did it for a reason - to keep us safe and make us understand that we're to hold on.

Fran

Amen. You will never convince all of them that we have the blessed peace and assurance that only comes through having a love relationship with our Lord and Saviour. We tell them over and over, but to no avail. Is it possible that some of them want to believe in OSAS because they lack a close relationship with Him and need OSAS to bolster their own lack of assurance? One doesn't need to be concerned about one's lack of assurance if they can convince themselves that it is impossible to end up an apostate castaway and go to the other place. You and I do not fear this for ourselves, but I don't think we will ever convince some of them. Some just don't want to believe we enjoy peace, joy, and victory through Him. Some seem to need OSAS.

I realize that not all of you believe we are liars. I want you to know that I would be OSAS just like you, where it not for the verses that inform us and warn us that eternal loss is still a possibility. My belief is not based on feelings, but on Scripture.

 

[PennEd]

I'm very glad that those who don't believe in eternal security don't fear losing theirs. That kinda sounds like.....ETERNAL SECURITY!
But my Salvation doesn't depend on me loving Jesus ( I do with all my heart and soul) or even having a relationship with Him( I do, and can't imagine not talking to Him constantly).

My Salvation rests on God wrapping Himself in human flesh, His shed Blood and death for the payment of my sin, and His resurrection to eternal life! He gave me the faith to believe it, and I know NO ONE, can remove that faith He gave me.
THAT, is eternal security.

 

[oyster67]

It is impossible.
Does God know you?
Does he know that you truly love him, therefore he will protect you?
Does he know that you will walk away from him, so he doesn't protect you and let's you walk away.
Is anything impossible with God?
When I gave my life to Jesus, I knew he was real, I knew I belonged to him.
I still feel that way today.
No one can take me away from him.
I know I am saved forever.
God puts that feeling inside of me.
How about you?
Do you question your salvation?
If so, why?
What are you missing in your relationship with God.
As one writer in the Bible put it, "and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
The way I feel is backed up in Scripture.

Thanks for your concern, but the answer to your questions are; "No, I do not question my Salvation.", "No, I am not missing in my relationship with God." But I do appreciate your concern. I will resist the temptation to think you might be engaged in patronizing some of us who do not believe exactly the way you do. I do respect you and do not question your salvation. Belief in OSAS is not a requirement for Salvation. Love and respect for God and each other is required. I am probably about as close to the doctrine of OSAS as one can get without actually buying it hook-line-and-sinker.

 

[oyster67]

I'm very glad that those who don't believe in eternal security don't fear losing theirs. That kinda sounds like.....ETERNAL SECURITY!
But my Salvation doesn't depend on me loving Jesus ( I do with all my heart and soul) or even having a relationship with Him( I do, and can't imagine not talking to Him constantly).

My Salvation rests on God wrapping Himself in human flesh, His shed Blood and death for the payment of my sin, and His resurrection to eternal life! He gave me the faith to believe it, and I know NO ONE, can remove that faith He gave me.
THAT, is eternal security.

Well stated, but don't you think that Jesus intended that this be carried over into the NT:

(Matt 22:37 [KJV])
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

(Matt 22:38 [KJV])
This is the first and great commandment.

(Matt 22:39 [KJV])
And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Grace777x70]

Until we get the revelation of the Father's true nature and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ for us - we will not understand the "why" of the gospel.

Not understanding the "why" of the gospel leads to all these Christ-less debates about OSAS and losing salvation.

This whole topic is a ploy of the enemy to get our focus away from Christ and what He has done.

Jesus nor the apostles ever talked about this foolishness - they always talked about "life" and that life is in Christ Himself.

 

[oyster67]

Until we get the revelation of the Father's true nature and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ for us - we will not understand the "why" of the gospel.

Not understanding the "why" of the gospel leads to all these Christ-less debates about OSAS and losing salvation.

This whole topic is a ploy of the enemy to get our focus away from Christ and what He has done.

Jesus nor the apostles ever talked about this foolishness - they always talked about "life" and that life is in Christ Himself.

I tend to agree. We have beaten that poor horse to death too many times. I love both you and PennEd and count you both as dearly beloved brother's in Christ. You have been good and kind to me and I long to meet both of you very soon. Thank you for your loving exhortation to grow deeper every day.

 

[Ariel82]

Hi Angela, I could be wrong, but from what I understand, the Eternal Security group might be a 4 point Calvinist or Dispensationalists.

Eternal security is just the P in TULIP, for perseverance of saints. Doesn't claim to believe in the T for total inability and I don't know the stance for the other letters. Probably depends on person asked.

Has nothing to do with dispensationlism.

 

[Ariel82]

Wow!
What are you, a MacArthur disciple?

Your post early on was very chaotic.I would never have answered you under those conditions.
So where were we about MacArthur, there is so much to say.
Oh yes, Lordship doctrine.
Whew!
Kind of big to tackle by such a little man as me.
And it would derail this thread.
If you wish to start a new thread on MacArthur, I bet a lot of other knowledgeable people would join in.

Bob and weave.....why label someone a MacArthur disciple, when you can't clearly define what that means?

Seems awful confrontational.

You should just say "Sorry I labeled you that. You have made many statements that remind me of MacArthur lordship doctrine: which is you have to accept Jesus not only as savior but Lord to be saved."

If you don't accept Jesus as Lord, how can He truly be your SAVIOR?

It sounds more like people accepting a FALSE Jesus, who is not King of kings and Lord of Lords.

If a false Jesus, then a false salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

Until we get the revelation of the Father's true nature and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ for us - we will not understand the "why" of the gospel.

Not understanding the "why" of the gospel leads to all these Christ-less debates about OSAS and losing salvation.

This whole topic is a ploy of the enemy to get our focus away from Christ and what He has done.

Jesus nor the apostles ever talked about this foolishness - they always talked about "life" and that life is in Christ Himself.

It comes down to the belief of how and when people are saved.

Depending on where the "salvation" marker is place, you get the different positions.

Some believe that being born into a Christian family and infant baptism saves a person. However, they also hold that "believers" can fall away.

Others hold that babies can't be baptized but must make a confession of faith in the Gospel and are saved at that moment.

Others that people aren't saved until they are baptized by the Holy Spirit.

Others until they bear fruits of repentance


Others state you must also acknowledge Jesus as Lord AND SAVIOUR.

So people's stance on eternal security is really based off their stance of what and when salvation occurs.

 

[Desertsrose]

Eternal security is just the P in TULIP, for perseverance of saints. Doesn't claim to believe in the T for total inability and I don't know the stance for the other letters. Probably depends on person asked.

Has nothing to do with dispensationlism.

Hi Ariel,

She already had Calvinists listed and the Eternal Security group was listed separately as if it was another category.

I was just mentioning that I know of dispensationalists that don't consider themselves as Calvinists, but could be considered OSAS. I didn't know if she was including them in that Eternal Security group or not.

And there are hyper Calvinists and conservative Calvinists and Calvinists that happen to be 4 pointers, but do believe in OSAS.

I also realize there are other pointers ranging from 1-5. I have family and friends that are Calvinists. I know the tulip as well and the 5 pointers whom I know, don't accept the less pointers as being Calvinists. That's why I was asking if the 4 point Calvinists were being included in the Eternal Security category. I was just asking for clarity is all.

Here's the main points of calvinism.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)



​

 

[Ariel82]

If they don't accept all of TULIP, I wouldn't call them Calvinist.

OSAS and end times positions are to separate issues and mixing them will just be confusing.

 

[Guardian1970]

Brother, tell me then. What does
1John 3 mean?

1See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

11For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.

 

[Guardian1970]

Brother, it is also written.

James 2 14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Guardian1970]

Brothers and Sisters,

I see in some replies love and truth. I LOVE it. But as you can see it kind of was talked about. Here is what I think about these type of topics.

I just read the thread about grace vs law. I also saw where it is threatned to remove anyone who has discussions about it. Before I say a few words about the that. Let me first say, hello fellow Colorado person. I was born there in Denver. We are also very close in age .

Now I assume you must me a monitor or admin. It is good to try and keep civility. It is important to do so. That being said, I don't know what was being discussed in the threads. If it was civil or not. The material of discussion though I think is important at times though. It is something that should be discussed in my opinion. Please here me out and why.

It is written if one knows the truth, and keep it to themselves seeing danger for his brother or sister and says nothing to warn him of the danger. If his brother dies and he didn't warn him, his blood is on upon them. If he does warn him and his brother listens and is saved, then praise be to God. If he doesn't listen and dies, then his blood is no longer on him. Grace vs Law is very important. I am writing to you personally out of respect.

I worry because our brothers and sisters have been very much about the law at times. Even one church leader condoning murder. Over sinners who's sin isn't against them but God. Now I am not saying that we should partake and celebrate lawlessness. I am not saying we should Mary homosexuals. Just like I would not say a person should be murdered, or stolen from. Being saved is by grace alone. That is biblical, keeping the law after. That is biblical. Judging your brother or sister for not keeping the law, that is not biblical. Indulge me here for a minute please.

It is written that we are saved by Grace alone. When we are saved by grace, least anyman be boastful or prideful. Knowing we are sinners and admitting it humbly, is why we are saved. Now anyone that has been saved knows they are unworthy of God. Christ gave us a new commandment. Love God with all of your heart, soul and might. Then he said I also give you a second law. Love your neighbor as yourself. Which is the same as do onto others as you would you have done unto you. NO other commandments is greater he said. Why?

If we love God with everything we are, and everything we have. We seek him, every second of every minute, of every day. We constantly pray. We seek his face and will. A good son does the will of his father. Or a good slave honors his master. To do this is to obey. Now we knowing we are sinners know we cannot keep the law. If we could Christ would not have had to die for us. If we take account and measure the law against our neighbor, yet do not first judge our own actions and sinful ways. Then we are like the Pharisees, when Christ taught about the one stating thank you God, for not making me like other men, those sinners. Yes, I am paraphrasing because I know you all have read the Bible. Yet the other man who said, Lord I am a sinner and unworthy, have mercy,found mercy. Yet the lawful man was found in sin, for pride. It is not by flesh we can over come sin. It is by the spirit of God alone. For it is his presence in us that manifests purity and un-conditional love. As we receive freely, we give freely, wouldn't you agree? Christ taught, first remove the log from your own eye. So you can remove the spec in your brothers. He was teaching about us being judgemental on our brothers and sisters. That is why the two laws he gave he said superseded all, how? He called them the greatest! He said I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

That being said we should do everything we can to resist temptation, and keep the law. If we resist and keep the law then we should immidatly thank God, for it his presence in our lives and in our spirit that has given us strength to overcome. If we overcome it is only by God in us. Therefore we will lead a Holy life if we are in constant chase of putting God in the center of our lives. Sometimes we fail and fall, that is a pruning that I think must happen. Could be for many reasons. To keep us humble? To get us back in the word because we feel his spirit with in us draw back and we are convicted there in. That beget is to continue to seek Him and grow spiritually. We cannot stay on milk, we must grow and seek meat.

He also taught us the measure you give is the measure you get. What we judge our neighbor by, or brothers/sisters by. We too shall be judged. Now knowing we are all sinners. Why do we feel we must make ourselves out to be better men/women then what we are? We know we all are sinners, we know well all sin. Why do we feel the need to say, well at least I am not like that sinner, or assume his sin is worse. For the wages of sin are death. If the scripture is true then all have sinned. The wage are the same as is the judgement. No matter the sin. It is only by the good news and the conviction of the heart and repentance of that person they are saved. They are kept by seeking him and his face. Loving him above all things. When we do not love and seek him above all things we become like the seeds that fell in different places. The truth and spirit get choked out of our lives. If we do not repent, or a brother doesn't reach down lovingly with their hand saying it's ok brother. Then we can be lost. It is written "6Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.". We all sin, we must lovingly help one another. Encourage each other to get back up, repent and walk. Those who know God, know when they have sinned. There is no reason to kick them while they are doen. Rather, reach out to them as God reached out to us through the life and death of his Son. Otherwise we leave them in the pit. Again, the key is lovingly. As you where saved by God with mercy and without due/justice/or reason. We too should remind our brothers the same. We have one God the Father, one Master/teacher the Christ through his Holy Spirit. We are all brothers and sisters. All equal, all sinners.

So if you read these words, pray about it. Maybe think about it before we cut people off from growth, and seeking the truth in brotherly discussions. Done in LOVE. Rudeness, pride, boastfulness. These things can stop us from staying humble and remembering it is by Grace alone we are saved. The truth must be taught, or we are leaving our brothers and sisters in the dark. If any discussion is done in love because people seek the truth. Then I believe you should allow it. For in seeking we find, if we seek together then God will all the more speak through us to bring his truth to the light. Some say, God already has revealed everything we need to know. I would say till I stand before the Lord. I will seek Him and his truth because I love him. Because he has loved and forgiven me. It is written he has hidden the truth from the wise. Yo each he has given talents according to their ability ability. If we say we know all truths then we too are lying. Even Christ doesn't know the day or the hour God will send him to gather us. If I do not know and can explain all things of prophecy and teachings of Christ. I do not know all things. So I will seek, I will give love and mercy as God gives to me. That the light and truth should shine in the dark. Not for me or my glory. I do not matter, it is for his love, honor and glory.

Again, I am not writing you to anger you, I write you out of love for the truth. Love for our brothers and sisters. So instead of avoiding those things which make people uncomfortable. Let the loving debates in search of truth continue. In a loving caring manner. With open hearts and minds. Because if we do so, then we will see, what others do not see, we will know, what others do not know. We will grow in Christ and God as one church and one family. There will be those who are angry. Who are hateful, accept them. Pray for them, bless them if they speak evil things against you. For so where the prophets and men of God before us also treated in this manner. Please let not the growth of the church be stifled, or division be scene as evil. For Christ said, I have not come to bring peace but a sword. That those in their own family would despise you. Hate you, and judge you. Again, I write this with an open and humble heart.

Love to you brother
A brother in Christ

 

[Grace777x70]

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.


James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work". Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

 

[FranC]

Agree Angela, and I would add, we're not only being kept in His hands...we are His hands. We are an actual part of His body! Praise the Lord!

He could never tell us, "depart from me...I never knew you."

Hi John146
If we are God's hands (and I agree we are ) then it means we're DOING things for Him.
This could be called "works".
So IS works a bad word in Christianity?

Fran

 

[JesusRules1]

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Faith is not active unless it is accompanied with works,which is based on this,if you see someone in need and you have the means to help them,and you do not,then you do not have faith,for God's kingdom is a based on love,not how the world operates.

That is why James used the illustration if you see a person in need,and you do not help them,then how do you have faith,for love of people is the fulfilling of the law,for if you love people perfectly you can only do so by the Spirit,and if led by the Spirit you love God.

What James is saying is allow the Spirit to lead you,for if you do,you will care for people and their needs,which is the works we have to do in the New Testament.

We cannot neglect the poor and needy if we have the means to help them,for it is all about love.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Some people think that living for God is material gain,and monetary gain,and teach such,which God said withdraw yourself from them,for people that heap money to themselves for personal use have erred from the faith,for they are not shwing love towards people by helping them with their needs.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Charity is love in action,which Paul said without Charity we are nothing,which if a person sees a person in need,and has the means to help them,and does not,the love of God does not dwell in them,which is the same thing as James is saying,faith without works is dead,and used the illustration if we see someone in need,and do not help them,then how do we have faith,when faith is believing in a kingdom that loves people,and helping people is the works we do in the New Testament.

Which Paul is saying the same thing as James when he said if a person thinks living for God is material gain,and monetary gain,and teach such,withdraw yourself from them,having food and clothing be content,for people that heap money to themselves for personal use,has erred from the faith,which means faith is not active in their life,for people that would believe that God does bless with money do neglect the poor,as you can see the TV evangelists,and preachers,that believe that,how they have a vast abundance of money,and it neglects the poor,causing them to err from the faith.

So Paul is saying the same thing as James,if you have the means to help people,and you do not,then faith is not active in your life,which the Bible says the saints appear poor to the world,but they possess all things,to be given them in due time.

God only supplies our needs,and any money above our needs is to help people in need,for if not then faith without works is dead,James,which the person has erred from the faith,Paul.

 

[dcontroversal]

Desert Rose, I completed my MDiv in 2013, at a Canadian seminary, which will remain nameless, to protect my privacy and theirs. If you want me to private message it to you, I can. We had quite a few Americans enrolled in the on-line program.

However, it is graduate level, meaning you need an undergrad degree, or some kind of life experience. I guess you could ask them. In order to get a degree, however, you must take 1/3 of the courses on campus. Those are usually week long intensives, which were very important in getting to know the professors and the other students. Of course, that means being close enough to come to these intensives. I lived 3 hours away, and made the journey at least twice a year. Some people did drop out because of that. Still, I would imagine that if you just want to take courses, not worry about the degree, they could arrange something.

I will agree some people have been deceived into thinking they are saved, by saying a sinner's prayer, usually, when they are not. David Platt has a very good article on this! Which is not to say that people cannot be saved as they recite a sinner's prayer, just that it is all about God, his work in our hearts and lives. He calls, and we obey. Not sure how we could ever be saved OR stay saved without the Holy Spirit working in our hearts and lives.

Here is that article! It is long, but a good read!

David Platt: What I Really Think About the 'Sinner's Prayer,' Conversion, Mission, and Deception | Christianity Today

The bolded above.....Why do you think that is necessary, in a previous post you boasted of how well known it is, are they not a public Seminary? That makes no sense whatsoever at all......to protect your privacy......yeah right

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi John146
If we are God's hands (and I agree we are ) then it means we're DOING things for Him.
This could be called "works".
So IS works a bad word in Christianity?

Fran

Book, chapter and verses in context (two witnesses) that equate to being in Christ's hands as doing works or THINGS for him......that is not supported by context.....and to be frank Fran.....the bolded above is exactly why false teaching is a prevalent as the rocks in my drive way.....

THE only thing it shows is POSSESSION......JUST LIKE I HAVE THIS PEN IN MY HANDS.......it is IN MY POSSESSION.....