Ever wonder what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was?

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E

ELECT

Guest
#81
I know it is getting a little off topic, but I think that is because you are being evaluated as to how much of the mystery you are actually familiar with. So far your input is mostly denial. You haven't actually contributed with any real knowledge. Remember, there are mysteries involved here and these mysteries are not for all to see. The topic at hand though does not require much insight to see that satan is the being to which GOD is referring too. I think further discussion with you on this subject would not be fruitful.

[h=1][/h]
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
[h=1]Colossians 4:3King James Version (KJV)[/h]3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#82

Job 26:13King James Version (KJV)
13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Why do you suppose this has anything to do with Leviathan?

Isaiah 27:1King James Version (KJV)
27 In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

If this is a supernatural being why does he live in the sea? This would tend to add force to the statement is Job 41;1, "Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?"

Revelation 12:9King James Version (KJV)
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
Yes, Satan is called a serpent here but there is no scripture anywhere that refers to Satan as either Leviathan or Lucifer. This is merely irresponsible speculation.

Job 41:31-34King James Version (KJV)
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
Sounds to me like he is describing an aquatic creature to me, one that lives in the depths of the sea.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#83
There is a big difference between justifiable speculation and speculation that is offered in direct contradiction of the language of a text. You are attempting to make Satan the object of these taunts but the subjects of each of the texts in question are very clearly identified as kings of specific nations. You are not honoring the language of the text.
what i dont get is that you are a wise person yet you close your heart to see that there are secret wisdom of God in His word
It is wrong for chistians to smoke but you will never see a verse that says thou shall not smoke anyway it was cool chatting hope you ask God foe wisdom and stop reading the bible close mided my friend
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#84

Why do you suppose this has anything to do with Leviathan?


If this is a supernatural being why does he live in the sea? This would tend to add force to the statement is Job 41;1, "Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?"


Yes, Satan is called a serpent here but there is no scripture anywhere that refers to Satan as either Leviathan or Lucifer. This is merely irresponsible speculation.


Sounds to me like he is describing an aquatic creature to me, one that lives in the depths of the sea.
please re read Isaiah 27
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#85

Why do you suppose this has anything to do with Leviathan?


If this is a supernatural being why does he live in the sea? This would tend to add force to the statement is Job 41;1, "Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook?"


Yes, Satan is called a serpent here but there is no scripture anywhere that refers to Satan as either Leviathan or Lucifer. This is merely irresponsible speculation.


Sounds to me like he is describing an aquatic creature to me, one that lives in the depths of the sea.
Why is satan decribed as a dragon ? Were dragon real or not ?
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#87
Who does the text say these taunts are to be given to?
One last comment:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.



It isn't that 'knowledge' would increase. It's that 'wickedness' would increase.

Here is the definition of knowledge in that verse:

H1847
דּעת
da‛ath
dah'-ath
From H3045; knowledge: - cunning, [ig-] norantly, know(-ledge), [un-] awares (wittingly).
 
C

Calminian

Guest
#88
what i dont get is that you are a wise person yet you close your heart to see that there are secret wisdom of God in His word
It is wrong for chistians to smoke but you will never see a verse that says thou shall not smoke anyway it was cool chatting hope you ask God foe wisdom and stop reading the bible close mided my friend
Why would there be a need for secret wisdom apart form the words themselves? The text is straightforward and clear. Why not just believe what it says?
 
Dec 3, 2014
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#89
Why would there be a need for secret wisdom apart form the words themselves? The text is straightforward and clear. Why not just believe what it says?
It has to do with those that were written into the Book Of Life at the foundation of the world.
To them it is given to know the mysteries.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The word 'wonder' in that verse is the same as worship:

G2296
θαυμάζω
thaumazō
thou-mad'-zo
From G2295; to wonder; by implication to admire: - admire, have in admiration, marvel, wonder.
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#90
Why would there be a need for secret wisdom apart form the words themselves? The text is straightforward and clear. Why not just believe what it says?
Job 11:6King James Version (KJV)

6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

The is, is the written word the double is that which is written under the written
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,143
612
113
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Alabama
#91
what i dont get is that you are a wise person yet you close your heart to see that there are secret wisdom of God in His word
It is wrong for chistians to smoke but you will never see a verse that says thou shall not smoke anyway it was cool chatting hope you ask God foe wisdom and stop reading the bible close mided my friend
ELECT, truth lies exclusively within the grammatical structure of the text. If you want to know the truth of any text first find what they text says, not what may lie between the lines. This is nothing more that subjectivism. If we submit to a subjectivist approach to the text then anything the imagination of man can connect to the text becomes an acceptable interpretation. We are NEVER allowed to approach any text of scripture in this way nor are we free to assign just any interpretation to a text that strikes our fancy. Contrary to popular opinion, one cannot make scripture say just anything one wants it to say. The Bible is an exclusively divine document that represents the mind of God and it will only say what God has intended it to say, nothing more and nothing less. Anything else is a perversion of the text.
 
C

Calminian

Guest
#92
The bottom line though is that these things that we see, we know them. We see them immediately when we study scripture. Others may not see them. We can try to show them what we see, but if they cannot see them, then there is no way to convince them.

Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
But this is a claim anyone can make, including false teachers. In fact they make claims like this all the time.

"Hey, I have a secret insight into this passage. Don't take it literally, trust my insights."

But the berean should question this as ask the teacher to prove what he says by scripture. Do you not agree?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#93
Why would there be a need for secret wisdom apart form the words themselves? The text is straightforward and clear. Why not just believe what it says?
Job 29:1-4King James Version (KJV)

29 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
2 Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
3 When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;
4 As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;

what was one of those secret ?
Job 26:1King James Version (KJV)

26 But Job answered and said,

Job 26:7King James Version (KJV)

7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.


T​




STUDY THIS
Job 26:7






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E

ELECT

Guest
#95
I did read it and have read it many times. Even if I am wrong in thinking that Leviathan was perhaps some unidentified aquatic creature this text still does not lend any support that he is Satan or any other spiritual being.
Who is Isaiah 27 :1 refering too then that God will punish please enlighten us
 
E

ELECT

Guest
#97
But this is a claim anyone can make, including false teachers. In fact they make claims like this all the time.

"Hey, I have a secret insight into this passage. Don't take it literally, trust my insights."

But the berean should question this as ask the teacher to prove what he says by scripture. Do you not agree?
Can you prove that God created male and female plants ?
 
C

Calminian

Guest
#98

Job 11:6King James Version (KJV)

6 And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore that God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth.

The is, is the written word the double is that which is written under the written
Did you know you just quoted Zophar the Naamathite who God rebuked as not having knowledge? If you really had this secret insight, you'd know that God doesn't start speaking until much later in Job, and these early chapters are Job's counselors who are speaking without wisdom and knowledge.

Elect, how ironic is it you have quoted a man deemed by God not knowing the truth?

Job 42:7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

Or let me guess. You've been given secret insights that Zophar really did have wisdom??
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,143
612
113
70
Alabama
One last comment:

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.



It isn't that 'knowledge' would increase. It's that 'wickedness' would increase.

Here is the definition of knowledge in that verse:

H1847
דּעת
da‛ath
dah'-ath
From H3045; knowledge: - cunning, [ig-] norantly, know(-ledge), [un-] awares (wittingly).
Why do you feel this information is pertinent to this particular discussion?