Evolution, Big Bang, and the Bible.

[Phillipy]

You see, you need to be clear headed about these things which you are not.

A true Christian is someone who follows Jesus who said to love our neighbour.

If they are not following the teaching of Christ, they are not 'CHRIST'ians.

I do agree, but the nature of stating that in hindsight is the heart of the no true Scotsman fallacy. To say it turned out they were never a true X when they do something that reveals it, is what it's all about.
It's right to say that no true Christians have ever killed anybody because to do so means you were never really following Christ properly, but the person making the complaint is probably not reeeally talking about 'true Christians' but people who THINK they are true Christians

 

[PS]

I do agree, but the nature of stating that in hindsight is the heart of the no true Scotsman fallacy. To say it turned out they were never a true X when they do something that reveals it, is what it's all about.
It's right to say that no true Christians have ever killed anybody because to do so means you were never really following Christ properly, but the person making the complaint is probably not reeeally talking about 'true Christians' but people who THINK they are true Christians

There are a lot of those around unfortunately, but Jesus said we are known by our fruit.

Getting back to the subject in hand, this is the problem atheists have who THINK they are right but we all know what thought did as you have just demonstrated.

 

[Widdekind]

"God in heaven" sends "Holy Spirit" to some humans on earth, and not to others.

Prima facie, the former become Christians, by their obedience to the guidance & direction of said "Holy Spirit"; whilst the latter are left to be a-Theists, "without God".

When you are talking to an a-Theist, you are talking to a human on earth, who has never been "Contacted" by "God in heaven". Is that their human fault ? "God in heaven" chooses some humans to "Election", but not others. That choice is up to "God in heaven", who "meddles" in human affairs on earth. Logically, a-Theists can not be blamed, per se, for never having been "Chosen" by "God in heaven".

Likewise, a-Theists should try to understand, that Religious people are claiming, to experience "Communications" from "God in heaven". Can a-Theists fault their fellow humans, who are "Chosen" to receive "Religious Communications", of "Holy Spirit" ??

a-Theists vs. Religious people need to understand, that there is a difference between them, the former are "left alone", and the latter are "psychically harassed" by "Spiritual signals" from "God in heaven".

Again, trying to use words that a-Theists might take seriously, Religious people are (allegedly) "psychically harassed" by mind-affecting "Spiritual signals", that influence Religious people, in their life decisions. Whereas, a-Theists are (for some reason) "left alone". Experiencing nothing but their own thoughts, they cannot understand, that Religious people are, psychically-speaking, "worlds away".

So deity means nothing? By your straw man we lack belief in a diety therefore we believe in 'nothing' and occupy ourselves in that, according to what you attempted to write? So shall we look at the fact atheists don't assert they believe in nothing?

We can take it atheists believe in alot of things, a diety ia not one of them.

 

[Widdekind]

sure -- but what are your words implying ?

For, is some say they are Christians, but are not...

but the "actual real true" Christians cannot stop them, from so claiming...

then the "actual real true" Christians would have to admit, that Christianity has been dominated, by non-Christian secular authority...

if "fake" Christians cannot be "excommunicated", then the Church has been dominated, by others...

yes ?

so, "true" Christians can claim "no true Scotsman" (or, "only they are the true Scotsmen")... only at the cost, of admitting impotence

I do agree, but the nature of stating that in hindsight is the heart of the no true Scotsman fallacy. To say it turned out they were never a true X when they do something that reveals it, is what it's all about.
It's right to say that no true Christians have ever killed anybody because to do so means you were never really following Christ properly, but the person making the complaint is probably not reeeally talking about 'true Christians' but people who THINK they are true Christians

 

[PS]

"God in heaven" sends "Holy Spirit" to some humans on earth, and not to others.

Prima facie, the former become Christians, by their obedience to the guidance & direction of said "Holy Spirit"; whilst the latter are left to be a-Theists, "without God".

When you are talking to an a-Theist, you are talking to a human on earth, who has never been "Contacted" by "God in heaven". Is that their human fault ? "God in heaven" chooses some humans to "Election", but not others. That choice is up to "God in heaven", who "meddles" in human affairs on earth. Logically, a-Theists can not be blamed, per se, for never having been "Chosen" by "God in heaven".

Likewise, a-Theists should try to understand, that Religious people are claiming, to experience "Communications" from "God in heaven". Can a-Theists fault their fellow humans, who are "Chosen" to receive "Religious Communications", of "Holy Spirit" ??

a-Theists vs. Religious people need to understand, that there is a difference between them, the former are "left alone", and the latter are "psychically harassed" by "Spiritual signals" from "God in heaven".

Again, trying to use words that a-Theists might take seriously, Religious people are (allegedly) "psychically harassed" by mind-affecting "Spiritual signals", that influence Religious people, in their life decisions. Whereas, a-Theists are (for some reason) "left alone". Experiencing nothing but their own thoughts, they cannot understand, that Religious people are, psychically-speaking, "worlds away".

Just to say that I don't believe in election and at the end of the day we will be judged on who we chose for our master.

 

[Widdekind]

Just to say that I don't believe in election and at the end of the day we will be judged on who we chose for our master.

please ponder perusing Predestination Made Easy by Dr. Kenneth Gentry

Scripture says God "chooses" some humans, for special purposes

if absolutely nothing else, then the Jews have been claiming, for ages, to be "chosen" by God

Since Abraham, Abrahamic Religious leaders have been claiming to be "chosen"

God chose some humans to receive Prophesy (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel), and not others (the rest of us)

Seemingly similarly, God chooses some humans to be "bathed in Holy Spirit" unto Election, and not hoers

 

[Grey]

Engaging in the sort of dialect atheist do makes them look foolish with their use of the paradox which is nothing but a lie and cannot exist. When you talk about a paradox you are talking about opposites.

You cannot have a hot cold front, you cannot have wooden iron, you cannot have hot ice, you cannot have something that is so heavy a child can lift it, you cannot say "I always lie' because if it is true it must be false" and on it goes.

An example of the lies atheists tell, and remember satan is the father of lies, can be seen in the example of the true Scotsman who when reading about a "Brighton Sex Maniac" declares "No true Scotsman would do such a thing". If you knew Scottish history and you knew about William Wallace, Robert the Bruce, the Scottish incursions, the clearances, and the clan wars you would know the terrible things the true Scots have done and because the atheist paradoxes are based on lies this is why I want nothing to do with you except to show you the foolishness and the wickedness of atheism of which you need to repent.

What you need to do now is to stop following the father of lies who you have begun to believe and turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Where did I say that? Its as if you have run out of logical arguments.


You do realize the only common bound between atheists is a lack of belief in a god right?

Tell me more about the Scots and how they are somehow related to this...

Yup, atheism is wicked, once I became an atheist I just started running up and down the streets murdering people, doing drugs, and spreading disease.

 

[T_Laurich]

Quick questions to the Atheist's who believe science disproves God.

1. How can a incomplete idea disprove God if it is what you say an idea. (The reason I use idea is because we humans came up with the concepts of science... Whether you argue its natural or not you can not argue we didn't come up with it. To interpret the world around us.)

2. How can something that is only made to judge 'How' judge 'Why'. ( Such as we can judge how the sun preforms nuclear fusion, But not why we are alive.)

3. Many of you say that We religious people thought the earth was flat until we were proven wrong and then we changed the word of God to fit the "logic". (First we got the notion from the "Scientists" at the time that the earth was flat. Secondly Isaiah 40:22 refers to a round Earth.) [Major point being, many of the faults you find in ancient religion were caused by the type of people pointing to them]

4. When it was widely believed though science that the universe was created from nothing and man from 'star' dust. Don't you think its funny to have a bunch of atheists to get to the top of this mountain to go. "HAHA See the universe was made from nothing and man was made from dust." When Christians arrived at this conclusion that The universe was made from nothing and man from dust... Centuries before hand?

5. Don't you think its funny how when Charles Darwin discovered "evolution". He actually published an article saying "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind".

Yet, he is the biggest proof an atheist can point to even in today's standards...

 

[DannyC]

Quick questions to the Atheist's who believe science disproves God.

1. How can a incomplete idea disprove God if it is what you say an idea. (The reason I use idea is because we humans came up with the concepts of science... Whether you argue its natural or not you can not argue we didn't come up with it. To interpret the world around us.)

2. How can something that is only made to judge 'How' judge 'Why'. ( Such as we can judge how the sun preforms nuclear fusion, But not why we are alive.)

3. Many of you say that We religious people thought the earth was flat until we were proven wrong and then we changed the word of God to fit the "logic". (First we got the notion from the "Scientists" at the time that the earth was flat. Secondly Isaiah 40:22 refers to a round Earth.) [Major point being, many of the faults you find in ancient religion were caused by the type of people pointing to them]

4. When it was widely believed though science that the universe was created from nothing and man from 'star' dust. Don't you think its funny to have a bunch of atheists to get to the top of this mountain to go. "HAHA See the universe was made from nothing and man was made from dust." When Christians arrived at this conclusion that The universe was made from nothing and man from dust... Centuries before hand?

5. Don't you think its funny how when Charles Darwin discovered "evolution". He actually published an article saying "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind".

Yet, he is the biggest proof an atheist can point to even in today's standards...

1. Thats not even a coherent statement/question I can't even tell.

2. Again makes no sense. Judge why we are alive?

3. The word is not round, it is 'circle'. The world is not a circle, it's an oblate spheroid.

4. The idea of being made from star dust is not the actual description of how humans are made. it's just a simple statement for vivid imagery. The dust god supposedly made everyone from was from the garden of Eden, not to mention our scientific theories don't included the bible or presuppose that the first woman was made from a rib.

5. We know Darwin was a christian, but that's irrelevant to the validity of the theory of evolution.

 

[Grey]

1. How can a incomplete idea disprove God

2. How can something that is only made to judge 'How' judge 'Why'.

3. Many of you say that We religious people thought the earth was flat until we were proven wrong and then we changed the word of God to fit the "logic". (First we got the notion from the "Scientists" at the time that the earth was flat. Secondly Isaiah 40:22 refers to a round Earth.

4. When it was widely believed though science that the universe was created from nothing and man from 'star' dust. Don't you think its funny to have a bunch of atheists to get to the top of this mountain to go. "HAHA See the universe was made from nothing and man was made from dust." When Christians arrived at this conclusion that The universe was made from nothing and man from dust... Centuries before hand?

5. Don't you think its funny how when Charles Darwin discovered "evolution". He actually published an article saying "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind".

Yet, he is the biggest proof an atheist can point to even in today's standards...

First of let me say you might as well open a strawman store because let me tell you I've never seen this many fallicies crammed into one post.

1. The only thing that binds atheists together is their lack of belief in a god, some may seek to disprove god while others may not. That being said, I personally believe its impossible to disprove or show that a god exists at the present point in time. That being said I do not see sufficent evidence to believe in one, and finally the burden of proof of god is on those who seek to prove that he is real.

2. WHAT!? Work on your sentance structure man. We judge that you are "alive", if you are living, breathing, functioning, and most importantly not dead .

3. You begin with a broadly encompassing strawman, even Colobus didn't think the world was flat, and most people at the time didn't either, that is another subject. However your sentance would be correct if you said that most religious people believe in a geocentric universe until a scientist pointed it out, that scientist wasn't an atheist. And no you can't magically know my faults to ancient religion, perhaps my greatest fault with juedo-christianity, is that Yaweh commanded genocide and the israelites carried it out, I would not obey that, believe me. There are plenty of other faults I have as well. Your verse is about a "circle of the earth", the earth is something between a sphere and egg shape, a circle is flat.

4. Once again you begin with an ignorant strawman, the truth is there is very little agreement on how the universe came to be, and we can go around in circles as we did earlier about "how can the universe come out of nothing" - "how can god come out of nothing". Finally Christians did not come to the conclusion that man came from dust, but accepted it because the bible says so (if you are a literalist). I'm proud to admit that I don't know.

5. How is it funny that Charles Darwin was an agnostic? Does this have anything to do with the point? I believe we live in a heliocentric universe yet I don't agree with the religious thought of the men who originally asserted it. Where did you get all this straw? And what "proof"? Proof of evolution? Evidence that would coencide with a rational disbelief?


All I can leave with is that try to rationally form your arguments instead of demonizing and strawmanning your opponents.

 

[Phillipy]

Quick questions to the Atheist's who believe science disproves God.

1. How can a incomplete idea disprove God if it is what you say an idea. (The reason I use idea is because we humans came up with the concepts of science... Whether you argue its natural or not you can not argue we didn't come up with it. To interpret the world around us.)

2. How can something that is only made to judge 'How' judge 'Why'. ( Such as we can judge how the sun preforms nuclear fusion, But not why we are alive.)

3. Many of you say that We religious people thought the earth was flat until we were proven wrong and then we changed the word of God to fit the "logic". (First we got the notion from the "Scientists" at the time that the earth was flat. Secondly Isaiah 40:22 refers to a round Earth.) [Major point being, many of the faults you find in ancient religion were caused by the type of people pointing to them]

4. When it was widely believed though science that the universe was created from nothing and man from 'star' dust. Don't you think its funny to have a bunch of atheists to get to the top of this mountain to go. "HAHA See the universe was made from nothing and man was made from dust." When Christians arrived at this conclusion that The universe was made from nothing and man from dust... Centuries before hand?

5. Don't you think its funny how when Charles Darwin discovered "evolution". He actually published an article saying "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind".

Yet, he is the biggest proof an atheist can point to even in today's standards...

This wasn't really addressed to people in my position, I'm not an atheist that thinks science disproves God, but I feel I should comment that
4) The big bang theory isn't the discovery that the universe was created from nothing, but that it came from a super hot, super dense state.
5) No I don't find that funny because I don't think evolution is at all incompatible with the existence of God
Most Christians are evolutionists, and most evolutionists are Christians

 

[Agricola]

This wasn't really addressed to people in my position, I'm not an atheist that thinks science disproves God, but I feel I should comment that
4) The big bang theory isn't the discovery that the universe was created from nothing, but that it came from a super hot, super dense state.

More goalpost moving and re-writting to keep the theory alive.

5) No I don't find that funny because I don't think evolution is at all incompatible with the existence of God
Most Christians are evolutionists, and most evolutionists are Christians

But it is incompatable. Humans are made in the image of God and Bible states very clearly that humans were made seperatly. Evolution says that we got here through evolution process.

Can you give me facts which says that more Christians are evolutionists etc.?

Many people who like to sit on fence with evolution, do not fully understand the wider implications. Genuine oppoenets of God and Bible desperatly want to prove evolution as 100% undeniable truth as it contridicts the Bibles account of how we got here. IF the Bible is supposed to be "The Word Of God" and everything in it is supposed to be from God, then that is obviously a lie if evolution is true.

IF that is then established, then the rest of Bible can be challeged and passed off as inacurate ramblings and is no different from any other book.

That is where the objective of athiests push for evolution lies.

 

[Phillipy]

More goalpost moving and re-writting to keep the theory alive.


But it is incompatable. Humans are made in the image of God and Bible states very clearly that humans were made seperatly. Evolution says that we got here through evolution process.

Can you give me facts which says that more Christians are evolutionists etc.?

Many people who like to sit on fence with evolution, do not fully understand the wider implications. Genuine oppoenets of God and Bible desperatly want to prove evolution as 100% undeniable truth as it contridicts the Bibles account of how we got here. IF the Bible is supposed to be "The Word Of God" and everything in it is supposed to be from God, then that is obviously a lie if evolution is true.

IF that is then established, then the rest of Bible can be challeged and passed off as inacurate ramblings and is no different from any other book.

That is where the objective of athiests push for evolution lies.

No! Evolution isn't atheism! It's science!
Your problem was your false dichotomy where you said "either the bible is the word of God and 100% literal, or it's just crazy ramblings and no more special than any other book"
Those aren't the only two options. It's inspired by God but not word for word, it's just a metaphor that the people of the time could understand, to help quench their thirst for an understanding. Just like in physics we might give a layman an analogy of rubber bands, to help them to understand attractive forces.
It's not 'Young Earth creationism or atheism'! The vast majority of scientifically aware Christians understand that the enormous amount of evidence for evolution makes it extremely unlikely to be utterly disproven at this point, only altered and explored.
Genesis isn't meant to be taken literally, and that's clearly demonstrated both by the literary style, with lessons on morality, and the scientific content.
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This has some really good bits supporting the 'most' statistics I mentioned.
Notice down at section 'Support for evolution by religious bodies' the good graph; 58% of Catholics accept evolution, 54% of orthodox, 51% of Protestants etc.
Brazil - In a 2010 poll, 59% of respondents said they believe in theistic evolution, or evolution guided by God.

United States

2009 Pew Research[133]


US Group
Young Earth Creationism -- Belief in God-guided evolution -- Belief in evolution without God
Public - 31% -- 32% -- 22%
Scientists - 2% -- 8% -- 87%

So!
I said 'most' by which I meant 'more than half of'. Public evolutionists is 32 theist and 22 atheist, so more than half theist ('God' so at least monotheist, Judeo-Christian it must mean). So there's my statement "Most evolutionists are Christians" Justified. Most evolutionists at least believe in capitol G God, if not necessarily Christians from this statistic.
Then I can justify my second sentence off this US poll too, for public Christians it's 31 creationist and 32 evolutionist. So most Christians are evolutionists
Good?

Don't worry, evolution isn't Satanic and you don't have to toss out the bible. Evolution is science, it's nothing to be afraid of and it certainly doesn't disprove God

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Evolution is not science. It is a belief. There is no proof, it must be accepted by faith. That's funny if you ask me. People are so willing to have faith in a lie than the true word of God.

 

[Grey]

Evolution is not science. It is a belief. There is no proof, it must be accepted by faith. That's funny if you ask me. People are so willing to have faith in a lie than the true word of God.

Every word you said was pretty much wrong.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Every word you said was pretty much wrong.

Really then where is your missing link. It is faith based on field study and classroom controlled events. Is it not.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

If I am wrong then I'm wrong. But I would rather be wrong than to believe humanistic intellect.

 

[Grey]

"Evolution is not science. It is a belief. There is no proof, it must be accepted by faith. That's funny if you ask me. People are so willing to have faith in a lie than the true word of God". - Earlmayknowornot

Remember, your own book commands you not to lie... have you heard of the allegory of the cave? It took me quite a while to hack off the chains you currently embrace.

More goalpost moving and re-writting to keep the theory alive.


But it is incompatable. Humans are made in the image of God and Bible states very clearly that humans were made seperatly. Evolution says that we got here through evolution process.

Can you give me facts which says that more Christians are evolutionists etc.?

Many people who like to sit on fence with evolution, do not fully understand the wider implications. Genuine oppoenets of God and Bible desperatly want to prove evolution as 100% undeniable truth as it contridicts the Bibles account of how we got here. IF the Bible is supposed to be "The Word Of God" and everything in it is supposed to be from God, then that is obviously a lie if evolution is true.

IF that is then established, then the rest of Bible can be challeged and passed off as inacurate ramblings and is no different from any other book.

That is where the objective of athiests push for evolution lies.

If changing your mind is "goal-post moving", then so be it. We'd have never gone to the moon if people didn't "goal post move" on the fallacy of the Geo-centric universe.

Nor do I deal with absolutes, nothing is 100% true, you are the merchant of absolutes, not me friend. And no, even I the wretched unbeliever, see some essential truths in the bible (which are not unique but none the less), not to Kill nor steal and treat others with empathy.

 

[Blain]

Well God created everything correct? So isn't science from god too? Although Family guy showed that the big bang was a fart, kinda offensive but I still got a laugh from it.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

The bible is 100% true. You can call God a monkey if you want to, but I will not.