examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

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T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#21
Very emotional scene from the movie Saints and Soldiers.

Take what you want from it, I just thought it fit the topic.

Background, the two men were just in a battle and the German took pitty upon the american and carried him out of the battle in stead of executing him... The reason the German saved the american was because the German was in a earlier battle and an american found him alone running for his life... Instead of exicuting him the american took mercy and shot into the air to make his squad think the german was dead.

P.s. great christian war movie....



[video=youtube;GBw7VGZ1T9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBw7VGZ1T9I[/video]
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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#22
Part 4 of 4 Speaking In Tongues: How To Do It, guidance, step by step instructions
"Speak that one syllable. God's not going to give you a sentence, He doesn't need to. He just needs to give you one syllable and as soon as you speak it He'll give you a second and as soon as you speak that He'll give you a third."
Is this a pentecostal equivalent of the practices and methods used in mysticism to achieve a desired state of mind?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#23
Rather than answer the original clips point by point, I am going to provide a series of post with the teaching on tongues as I received it, taught it, and practiced it for now 41 years.

First, my wife, before she died wrote a book of miracles in her life. It is here; http://www.kenbehrens.com/Miracles.pdf
Page3-4 contains her experience and her teaching on tongues:
-3-
All That Tongues Jazz
(1 Corinthians 14:5)
“I don’t know about all that tongues jazz, Lord, but just give ‘em to her!” my very concerned and
sincere Pentecostal friend, Mark, prayed for me after a music rehearsal at my place one summer
evening in the mid-70s.
His prayer was the outcome of an interesting debate we’d just had on whether or not a person was
really saved if he or she didn’t have the gift of tongues.
I knew I had been saved for the past 2 1⁄2 years, but I didn’t have tongues yet. Mark’s theology
stated that if I was really saved, I’d have the “evidence of speaking in tongues.” I’d put a crimp in his
theology because he knew that my life had drastically changed and I acted saved and Baptized in the
Spirit.
We bid good evening. I put my young son to bed and started praying out loud, in my usual fashion
before I retired.
I had said, “Praise You, Jesus!” a few times when, all of a sudden, I felt the weirdest power coming
from my stomach area. Then I felt power all around me in the room.
Just like Scripture says, “from out of your belly shall flow living water”(John 7:38), a churning,
surging force of spiritual water rose up from my spirit. To my utter amazement, at the same time, a
bunch of very foreign sounds started flowing out of my mouth. The words poured out with great force
and I was, of course, afraid.
“If this is from You, Lord, don’t let me block it. Please take away the fear.” I prayed in my mind.
The words continued to flow out of my mouth late into the night. I heard myself praying
paragraphs and paragraphs in distinctly different languages. I didn’t understand a word I was saying,
but I knew it was of God. I felt excited and peaceful all at once. I’d finally gotten the gift of tongues!
I don’t know when I finally fell asleep.
After all the beautiful words I’d heard myself saying the night before, I awoke with the ability to
speak only one word, “Pit-tee-key-tee.” Believe me, this sounded very comical. Don’t ever tell me
God doesn’t have a sense of humor!
I went around for about two weeks with only this one word, much to the amusement of my tongue-
speaking friends. They told me that if I continued to use that one word, the tongues would develop
and grow. I persevered.
After a few months, my prayer language did develop into different dialects for different occasions.
When I prayed for certain people and situations, I noticed the language would change. I still think this
is a very cool aspect of tongues.
-4-
When I had first gotten saved and was devouring every book I could find on the Christian life, I
came across a few books that mentioned the gift of tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
None of these books, however, had given any instructions on how to get tongues. It had never
occurred to me that I had to actually open my mouth and say something in order for the tongues to
come out.
After I’d read my first book on the subject, I’d sit cross-legged on the floor of our little upstairs
den, pray with raised hands and ask the Lord to please give me the gift of tongues. Then I’d get real
quiet and serious, brace myself and cringe a little, as if waiting for God to drop tongues like a ton of
bricks out of heaven onto my head. After repeating this “technique” several times without any results,
I’d given up.
Until Mark and I had our little debate a couple of years later, I’d never heard that I needed to open
my mouth and pray out loud in order for the tongues to manifest.
I have always loved the gift of tongues. I especially like singing in tongues. Some of my more
religious and serious friends would think me very sacrilegious when I’d sing in tongues to the tunes of
familiar TV commercials. But, remembering the Pit-tee-key-tee Era, I figured God didn’t mind.
I am very grateful for my prayer language for three reasons: It has snuffed out the desire to sin
during times of strong temptation; it enables me to pray with God’s heart when I don’t know how to
pray for situations; and it has been like a spiritual umbilical cord, tying my will to God’s when I’d
rather go my own way instead of obeying Him, or when it feels like He is far away.
The gift of tongues has always been my assurance in dark times that God is always so much closer
than I think.
Personally, I don’t believe that a person has to receive tongues to prove that he or she has been
Baptized in the Holy Spirit. I also do not consider those who speak in tongues as being “better” or
closer to the Lord than those who don’t have tongues. I do, however, believe that God loves to give
this prayer language to anyone who has truly made Him their Savior and Lord and who asks Him for
it.
 

T_Laurich

Senior Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#24
Sorry zone for my post, I glanced over the real/personal part and didn't comprehend... My apologies...
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#26
I am going to try to define tongues as I understand it.

Animals all have a rudimentary language, and are born with it imprinted on them. I believe we have the same. We at least express emotions and certain basic desires with groans, smiles, laughter and sometimes musical phrases that do not have an alphabet to write down. I think this language comes from God.

Human languages, such as English, do not share many properties of this natural expression. Linguists call it "the arbitrariness of the sign". That is, we agree to learn a few thousand sound/written symbols that are chosen historically, but pretty much at random, so we can talk about more sophisticated things than emotions and basic desires. To do this, requires two parts of our brain, the sound utterance part of the natural language, and a second part invoking memory.

Tongues is simply the freedom to let your utterances bypass the second part of the brain. If you mean to pray, it is prayer. If you mean to conform to a social norm, then it is human imitation. If you mean to invoke Satan, you can do it.

Tongues has an added dimension beyond the natural language. It expresses more than emotions and basic desires, and allows expression of the added desires created by being present in prayer with God. To see the difference, a word like "table" is just a random sound used in English to stand for a table. But the fellowship around a table, or the joy or thankfulness at sharing the gifts of food God provides, are Godly desires that are beyond the basic drives and emotions. As humans, we have those programmed in us also, and I believe each tongue has a word for each of these things. There are also gifts and blessings that God has not given to the earth yet, and there are words for those. These words constitute the "languages of angels" that Paul speaks of.

Interpretation is the ability to know the motivation and specific referents in sufficient detail to give a translation.

That tongues sometimes is a human language is not surprising, since each human language draws on the subconscious reservoir of things of God.

Tongues is not normally a human language. It is not intended to be. Pentecost was the exception proving the appearance of the Holy Spirit on earth, just as Jesus resurrecting before the end of the world was the exception that proved Him to be the Messiah.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#27
I will now add the history of the restoration of tongues to the churches, as i have received it up until 1972, and from then on as i lived it:
Tongues never vanished from earth. A Catholic law still in effect passed before 1000AD mandates that all tongues are to be assumed to be demonic. A book called "Magic and the Christian Faith", published in 1826, is a primer on all the gifts. Tongues were suppressed from the church because they interfered with the new order of pastoral direction being established at the time.

In 1823, Charles Finney received the revelation of "personal relationship with Jesus Christ". It was earth-shattering at its time, although is now standard.

About 1891, Charles Parham, Methodist Minister, took leave as a pastor and established a Bible college to study Finney's work.

At 11:55 PM Dec. 31, 1900, at a prayer meeting at the Bible college, tongues and prophecy broke out among the congregation. [The date is the exact beginning of the 20th century].

In 1906, W.J. Seymour, who had received tongues at this time, opened a small church on Azusa St. in Los Angeles, and preached and practiced the gifts as he had learned them.

From 1910 and on, mainline churches rejected the whole thing, and the Assembly of God Church, and several other new denominations were formed so that they may allow the new "gifts" in worship. Mainlines claimed tongues were disorderly, or not of God, had ceased from the church forever, etc., same as now. Books written to teach the gifts were bought by people who did not follow Jesus, and became the foundation of the New Age movement.

In 1966, a group of four college students at Duschene Catholic University were holding a bible study, and felt led by God to go to one of the smaller denominations and ask for "Baptism of the holy Spirit". This they did, receiving tongues. They kept silent for nearly a year about it.

By 1972, the group had grown to become thousands of groups in Catholic churches aroudn the world. By 1974, almost every catholic had at least a few friends who were "charismatic" and prayed in tongues.

From 1976-1984, the Catholic laity began an organized campaign to get the charismatics out of the church. After all, these folks were taking up all the volunteer ministry jobs, and their apparent enthusiasm for God could not be stopped. The campaign was largely successful.

From 1981 through 2000, Catholic charismatic prayer group leaders started churches, and gave up catholicism, takin ghwole prayer groups with them. These churches are the foundation of what you now know as "spirit-filled" churches.

Throughout, there were always counterfiets - leaders who wanted authority and were not afraid to brag about their gifts to try to get it.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#28
Tongues as it is practiced today seems so contrary to scripture. Jesus said:

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Matthew 6:7


and:
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Luke 11:2-4

Does speaking in tongues (as it is now practiced) really draw one closer to GOD, or does it alter the state of mind to think that one is closer to, or communing with, GOD? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#29
Let's see if I can answer some of the OP in an organized fashion.

There is much unevenness in the theology of tongues as with all the gifts. Please recall, that the modern churches come from disenfranchised Catholics, who were forced to develop new operational procedures for worship ad hoc. Baptism in the Spirit as a separate event, as I have posted before, is unScriptural, but it was added for pastoral reasons. Prayer group leaders reacted to the need of people who had been brought up in cessationist theology, and now were being offered these gfits of the Spirit. Baptism in the Spirit was intended only as a stopgap transitional measure for these people. Teachings about tongues were developed in the same way; each pastor stressed what his group needed, and that became the "theology".

You do not NEED tongues. Christians in some parts of the world get saved even without a Bible or without a church. Tongues is simply another blessing of God, as are churches and Bibles.

There was no such teaching in the original renewal about "temptations regarding tongues". There was a teaching about "baptism in the spirit" with three phases, and the teaching on the tape is an adaptation of that, personal to the author. [The teaching said: Satan has three temptations, in this order, regarding Bapt. in Sp: you don't want it, you didn't get it, and now that you have it, you are so holy, you don't need headship anymore]

There is no such thing as a "Stop Tongues" demon, unless it has been created in the last few years. There is a natural reticence among some people to do it, and some of those people really do not have tongues. This is not a demon, it's just life.

The logic that tongues ended and so cannot be restored is a circular argument full of holes. "Tongues ended in chruch by 300AD. God is the only person who can end them. If God ended them, He must have wanted them stopped. God does not change His mind. Any tongues now are false." What actually happened is the authority structure grieved the Holy Spirit, who left the worship in the church, and spent the next 1500 years working on getting people ready to let Him back in.

You cannot "just get it" (1:50 in the OP). God "just gives it".

Demonic tongues exist, as many witches will tell you. (2:30)

Many people do not have tongues. I Cor. 12:10 states this specifically.

When I pray with people for tongues, I start in English, and switch to tongues, when the Lord says to, and not until then. You cannot teach, or give tongues. All you can do is create an environment, and this is only necessary for people who have not yet been in such an environment.

People in great sin often receive many gifts suddenly and quickly upon repentence. Some get tongues, some do not. (7:00)

I agree tongues edify the speaker (11:30) that it helps focus and give insight in healing and deliverance (12:00) but need not be audible at all when used this way.

Tongues is not sufficient empowerment to prevent pastor burnout (14:00) as many experiences prove.

The relationship to the "higher gifts (14:30)" is only true of some people; his experience is clearly particular to him.

There is no point in praying for hours (15:00) if you and God are praying all the time anyway.

There is no necessity to share the gift (16:00) since there is no guarantee that everyone gets it. I share only when asked.

(17:30) the idea that additional time will get the person to get the gift is dangerous. It makes whatever the person calls tongues dependent on the man, and not on God.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#30
at 17:30 in the above video, the narrator says there is a religious demon named Stop-Tongue.
I wonder if the narrator has ever met the You-must-eat-that-Snickers demon?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#31
Does speaking in tongues (as it is now practiced) really draw one closer to GOD, or does it alter the state of mind to think that one is closer to, or communing with, GOD? Inquiring minds want to know.
I experience no change of state of mind when praying in tongues, that I do not also experience in prayer in English. mostly, I do not experience a change of state of mind at all. The examples of my wife's group move between tongues and music without apparent time for a change of state of mind, and none seems in evidence on the recordings.

The change of state of mind I experience when I do is a question of type of closeness to God, not of degree.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#32
I'm not sure about when he said a backslider can still use the gift. I think its irrevocable only if you stay in God. If you never leave God then you have no reason to lose the gifts. I really don't know bout that. If a person backslides then they become unclean and God can't dwell in an unclean vessel. So I think when u leave God, you leave the gifts anointing and protection he provides. I believe a backslider can come back and receive a renewed mind and receive the holy spirit once more. Just my opinion. I could be wrong. I'm just saying I never seen that happen. I know the holy spirit left king Saul.
I learned as standard teaching "God's gifts are without repentance" interpreted to mean that the gifts do not cease when one backslides. I have certainly known backslidden people who continued exercising the gifts. Whether some do not lose gifts, I cannot say.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#33
Part 4 of 4 Speaking In Tongues: How To Do It, guidance, step by step instructions

5:29:

"Why does it seem so strange? Because whereas you're used to controlling what you say in your mind, now the Lord Jesus is giving you utterance via the Holy Spirit inside you and it's by-passing your brain....it's by-passing your understanding. it's just going to your speech center so you can speak it out. that's all it is"

is this a common teaching?
is it accurate?

this man is quite specific in his instruction.

8:20

"Speak that one syllable. God's not going to give you a sentence, He doesn't need to. He just needs to give you one syllable and as soon as you speak it He'll give you a second and as soon as you speak that He'll give you a third."

8:30

he then proceeds to demonstrate his own tongues-speaking.





is this authentic?

please tell me how i can know.
5:29 is a common teaching, and is verified as far as neurological MMR studies will permit with the current state-of-the-art. I know of no-one who believes it is not so.

8:20 Compare my wife's teaching on one syllable. My experience is that it is accurate sometimes. His tongues are authentic. I do not know how I know, presumably it is "sentics" related, like identifying happy/sad music, but there have been no studies.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#34
When I pray by myself I don't pray for very long as I run out of what to pray for and because I do not want to be repetitive I start praying "in tongues" as I believe that my spirit knows what to pray for because His Spirit is in me, and since I know that my heart and mind are focused on The Lord I am not in the least worried that I may be doing wrong. God knows our hearts and that is what matters, it is by faith that I pray "in tongues" and by faith that I believe God hears me. If as some say it is blabbering then I have not lost anything as I'm sure The Lord would not hold it accountable to me because of my desire to Him, on the other hand if it is true then how much more is my soul enriched....nothing to lose but more to be gained.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#35
For those who cannot believe the gifts of Yahweh yet are in function, and must see, I fear this is seeking a sign, and it is a demonstration of no faith, not a lack of faith, none. Yeshua declared there would be no signe except the sign of Jonah. The entire world has that sign written in history, the Son of Yahweh and the cross.

What is written of Him should be sufficient for any who believe. If this is not enough, ask for faith in the name of Yeshua, Jesus, and you will receive it, and probably much more. Yahweh, God, is good all of the time.

The family in Yeshua, Jesus, do not have a difficult time in believing each other and the gifts. Blessed be the family in Yeshua, Jesus, amen.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#36
5:29 is a common teaching, and is verified as far as neurological MMR studies will permit with the current state-of-the-art. I know of no-one who believes it is not so.
could you cite any sources which prove by MMR that Jesus is by-passing the brain to prompt one to speak in unknowable noises?

or whatever the MMR study is saying?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#37
For those who cannot believe the gifts of Yahweh yet are in function, and must see, I fear this is seeking a sign, and it is a demonstration of no faith, not a lack of faith, none. Yeshua declared there would be no signe except the sign of Jonah. The entire world has that sign written in history, the Son of Yahweh and the cross.

What is written of Him should be sufficient for any who believe. If this is not enough, ask for faith in the name of Yeshua, Jesus, and you will receive it, and probably much more. Yahweh, God, is good all of the time.

The family in Yeshua, Jesus, do not have a difficult time in believing each other and the gifts. Blessed be the family in Yeshua, Jesus, amen.
that's fine.
but in every recorded case of people speaking in other human languges, which is what the gift was, there was ALWAYS a Jew present.

that is who the SIGN was for.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#38
When I pray by myself I don't pray for very long as I run out of what to pray for and because I do not want to be repetitive I start praying "in tongues" as I believe that my spirit knows what to pray for because His Spirit is in me, and since I know that my heart and mind are focused on The Lord I am not in the least worried that I may be doing wrong. God knows our hearts and that is what matters, it is by faith that I pray "in tongues" and by faith that I believe God hears me. If as some say it is blabbering then I have not lost anything as I'm sure The Lord would not hold it accountable to me because of my desire to Him, on the other hand if it is true then how much more is my soul enriched....nothing to lose but more to be gained.
well, there's little doubt the Lord hears the sounds of people who speak in what is today called tongues.
He sees and hears everything.

the question is, does He understand what you are saying?
since you don't why would you think He does?
if tongues speaking doesn't involve the Brain, how do you know it involves any thought of any kind - including thoughts of God?

your mind may be thinking of God. but there is nothing in scripture about babbling incoherently.
He might be reading your mind to bypass the babbling to see what you are thinking.

that is a slight possibility.
if He does overlook the babbling attributed to the Holy Spirit (i suspect He does not, as He can not dishonor Himself) to see what you are thinking about Him, He likely wonders why you are not speaking clearly to Him, as He has to us, in His Word.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#39
It is very sad that the only example of the varied forms of the gift of tongues is that of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost that you will recognize. There are other forms taught in the Epistles. One for prophecy, providing there is someone gifted to interpret, and one for prayer. The latter is a very wonderful and personal manner for the soul to have a direct connection with our Father. If you wish to read a far more eloquent description of this, read the post by greybeard above.

You read a lot, so why do you refuse to recognize the other forms cited in the Word of Yahweh, God? It is not a prerequisite to go to heaven to have any one particular gift. The gifts are personall from the Father to His children, while miracles are everywhere for all providing they have eyes to see.[

Please stop this abject denial of what is taught in the Word of the other forms of tongues. It is unbecoming faith.

I will continue praying for your walk to be made best by our Lord and Savior. If you love me in Yeshua, you will pray the same for me in Yeshua, Jesus.

QUOTE=zone;1067121]that's fine.
but in every recorded case of people speaking in other human languges, which is what the gift was, there was ALWAYS a Jew present.

that is who the SIGN was for.[/QUOTE]
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#40
Is this a pentecostal equivalent of the practices and methods used in mysticism to achieve a desired state of mind?
this is my best estimate.
but, still waiting for a thorough examination of posted examples by those qualified to know.

so far it appears those who speak in tongues are not in agreement about whether the posted examples are real or not.
if people inside the movement are unable to know, how is anyone outside the movement to know?