examples of speaking in tongues - need verification and explanations, please

[JaumeJ]

Let me know that I understand what you are saying. You are examining the validity of the gifts of the Father to His children?
You cannot know when another has any gift or whether any gift is valid by a video or empirical approach to faith in His gifts.
How do you think a mere creature is capable of "examining" gifts from the Most High God, our Creator? That thought is quite unnerving, even frightening.
To believe a video, or any writing of man as proving or disproving Yahweh's gifts is not possible for any person to do. Otherwise you could put Star Wars up as proof positive of how things are.
What are you thinking?

this is my best estimate.
but, still waiting for a thorough examination of posted examples by those qualified to know.

so far it appears those who speak in tongues are not in agreement about whether the posted examples are real or not.
if people inside the movement are unable to know, how is anyone outside the movement to know?

 

[zone]

It is very sad that the only example of the varied forms of the gift of tongues is that of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost that you will recognize. There are other forms taught in the Epistles. One for prophecy, providing there is someone gifted to interpret, and one for prayer. The latter is a very wonderful and personal manner for the soul to have a direct connection with our Father. If you wish to read a far more eloquent description of this, read the post by greybeard above.

you may find it sad it don't accept your mis-interpretation of what is written.
that's unfortunate.

i repeat: in EVERY instance involving tongues, JEWS were present. there is no prayer language discussed.
it's not myself who needs to go back and have another look.

as an Hebrew student, you are familiar with Paul's use of hyperbole and hebrew idioms.
it's amazing that in this instance, "the tongues of angels" is not clear to you.

you claiming "the latter" (prayer language - which simply doesn't exist and is not described in scripture) is a "a very wonderful and personal manner for the soul to have a direct connection with our Father" is pure speculation that this is in fact what is happening.

speculation based on a misinterpretation of languages as recorded in scripture. purely your opinion.
the very thing you claim to abhor when others supposedly do it.

i found Ken's historical reasoning on where and why the charismatic gifts "floundered" or ceased (Catholicism) and where they found their revival or renewal.

Ken claims it is a Catholic practice which was introduced gradually into the protestant evangelical churches.

i'm not sure i agree, but he has at least offered some kind of reasonable explanation for the CESSATION of the so-called gifts.

so far, he is the only one who practices tongues who has ventured to even address the fact that they DID cease.

 

[Abiding]

For those who cannot believe the gifts of Yahweh yet are in function, and must see, I fear this is seeking a sign, and it is a demonstration of no faith, not a lack of faith, none. Yeshua declared there would be no signe except the sign of Jonah. The entire world has that sign written in history, the Son of Yahweh and the cross.

What is written of Him should be sufficient for any who believe. If this is not enough, ask for faith in the name of Yeshua, Jesus, and you will receive it, and probably much more. Yahweh, God, is good all of the time.

The family in Yeshua, Jesus, do not have a difficult time in believing each other and the gifts. Blessed be the family in Yeshua, Jesus, amen.

Poor/bad application for what Jesus meant "seeking a sign"
Terrible jab saying its a demonstration of no faith, not a lack of faith, none.
not unlike your many personal snotty judgements.
I really notice that verse you fly and its just seems innapropriate JaumeJ

 

[Graybeard]

well, there's little doubt the Lord hears the sounds of people who speak in what is today called tongues.
He sees and hears everything.

the question is, does He understand what you are saying?
since you don't why would you think He does?
if tongues speaking doesn't involve the Brain, how do you know it involves any thought of any kind - including thoughts of God?

your mind may be thinking of God. but there is nothing in scripture about babbling incoherently.
He might be reading your mind to bypass the babbling to see what you are thinking.

that is a slight possibility.
if He does overlook the babbling attributed to the Holy Spirit (i suspect He does not, as He can not dishonor Himself) to see what you are thinking about Him, He likely wonders why you are not speaking clearly to Him, as He has to us, in His Word.

Like I said I believe it is my spirit that is praying to God and yes I believe God does understand what my spirit is saying even if I do not understand it with my brain, my brain is carnal but because The Holy Spirit dwells in me He testifies with my spirit what needs to be prayed for, better than I could think of with my brain.

 

[Abiding]

It is very sad that the only example of the varied forms of the gift of tongues is that of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost that you will recognize. There are other forms taught in the Epistles. One for prophecy, providing there is someone gifted to interpret, and one for prayer. The latter is a very wonderful and personal manner for the soul to have a direct connection with our Father. If you wish to read a far more eloquent description of this, read the post by greybeard above.

You read a lot, so why do you refuse to recognize the other forms cited in the Word of Yahweh, God? It is not a prerequisite to go to heaven to have any one particular gift. The gifts are personall from the Father to His children, while miracles are everywhere for all providing they have eyes to see.[

Please stop this abject denial of what is taught in the Word of the other forms of tongues. It is unbecoming faith.

I will continue praying for your walk to be made best by our Lord and Savior. If you love me in Yeshua, you will pray the same for me in Yeshua, Jesus.

QUOTE=zone;1067121]that's fine.
but in every recorded case of people speaking in other human languges, which is what the gift was, there was ALWAYS a Jew present.

that is who the SIGN was for.

[/QUOTE]


Why not calm down about 6000 notches? and do more of what you require?
Im not a cessationists but i do like to discuss.
Patience is required JaumeJ remember?

 

[zone]

Like I said I believe it is my spirit that is praying to God and yes I believe God does understand what my spirit is saying even if I do not understand it with my brain, my brain is carnal but because The Holy Spirit dwells in me He testifies with my spirit what needs to be prayed for, better than I could think of with my brain.

1 Corinthians 14:11
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

...


<< 1 Corinthians 14 >>
Holman Christian Standard Bible

Prophecy: A Superior Gift

1Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and above all that you may prophesy. 2For the person who speaks in another •languagea is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks •mysteries in the Spirit.b 3But the person who prophesies speaks to people for edification, encouragement, and consolation. 4The person who speaks in another language builds himself up, but he who prophesies builds up the church. 5I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.

6But now, •brothers, if I come to you speaking in other languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelationc or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7Even inanimate things that produce sounds — whether flute or harpd — if they don’t make a distinction in the notes, how will what is played on the flute or harp be recognized? 8In fact, if the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will prepare for battle?e 9In the same way, unless you use your tongue for intelligible speech, how will what is spoken be known? For you will be speaking into the air. 10There are doubtless many different kinds of languages in the world, and all have meaning.f 11Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreignerg to the speaker, and the speaker will be a foreigner to me. 12So also you — since you are zealoush for spiritual gifts,i, j seek to excel in building up the church.

13Therefore the person who speaks in another language should pray that he can interpret. 14For if I pray in another language, my spiritk prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.l 15What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with my understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with my understanding. 16Otherwise, if you praise with the spirit,m how will the uninformed personn say “•Amen”o at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17For you may very well be giving thanks, but the other person is not being built up. 18I thankp God that I speak in other languages more than all of you; 19yet in the church I would rather speak five wordsq with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

 

[Graybeard]

1 Corinthians 14:11
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

You mean 1Co 14:19......Absolutely...but in private it is different, to me, 1Corinthians 14:2 explains it:

1Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

 

[piper27]

1 Corinthians 14:11
yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

...


<< 1 Corinthians 14 >>
Holman Christian Standard Bible

Prophecy: A Superior Gift

1Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and above all that you may prophesy. 2For the person who speaks in another •languagea is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks •mysteries in the Spirit.b 3But the person who prophesies speaks to people for edification, encouragement, and consolation. 4The person who speaks in another language builds himself up, but he who prophesies builds up the church. 5I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.

6But now, •brothers, if I come to you speaking in other languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelationc or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7Even inanimate things that produce sounds — whether flute or harpd — if they don’t make a distinction in the notes, how will what is played on the flute or harp be recognized? 8In fact, if the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will prepare for battle?e 9In the same way, unless you use your tongue for intelligible speech, how will what is spoken be known? For you will be speaking into the air. 10There are doubtless many different kinds of languages in the world, and all have meaning.f 11Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreignerg to the speaker, and the speaker will be a foreigner to me. 12So also you — since you are zealoush for spiritual gifts,i, j seek to excel in building up the church.

13Therefore the person who speaks in another language should pray that he can interpret. 14For if I pray in another language, my spiritk prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.l 15What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with my understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with my understanding. 16Otherwise, if you praise with the spirit,m how will the uninformed personn say “•Amen”o at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? 17For you may very well be giving thanks, but the other person is not being built up. 18I thankp God that I speak in other languages more than all of you; 19yet in the church I would rather speak five wordsq with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in another language.

1Co 14:2: The word "for" is a conjunction connecting 1Co 14:1 and 2. Paul was giving the reason he instructed them to desire prophecy above other spiritual gifts. Speaking in tongues is us communing with God, but prophecy is God speaking through us to man. In the church, we should seek to edify others, not ourselves Prophecy edifies others, while speaking in tongues only edifies the person who is speaking.

How is the discovery journey coming along? Seems like this topic brings up a lot of heat/mixed-emotions.

 

[Abiding]

if sobermindedness= grumpybutt judgemental bossycowness
let me go practice my humor and check for new google pics.

We have to be able to test all things in order to test all things.
Not at all the same as seeking a sign which in fact goes to the gift seeking sign seeking crowd.

And that seems to me yo be what this thread is about...which is in accordance with
scripture, which is what Yahweh commands!

 

[JaumeJ]

Those who have decided there is not a type of tongues for prayer will not recognize any of the Holy Scripture teaching it. It is as simple as that. May Yahweh, God help them in their inquisition of the faithful, and save them from attempting to impirically prove Yahweh. It is a matter of prayer for them and for ourselves.
There are only a very few in the forum who vehemently oppose the teaching, but they are verbose about it to the point of ridicule.

You mean 1Co 14:19......Absolutely...but in private it is different, to me, 1Corinthians 14:2 explains it:

1Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

 

[JaumeJ]

Who is excited? That thought comes from your heart. Read again the reasoning from the Lord below.

Originally Posted by JaumeJ

It is very sad that the only example of the varied forms of the gift of tongues is that of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost that you will recognize. There are other forms taught in the Epistles. One for prophecy, providing there is someone gifted to interpret, and one for prayer. The latter is a very wonderful and personal manner for the soul to have a direct connection with our Father. If you wish to read a far more eloquent description of this, read the post by greybeard above.

You read a lot, so why do you refuse to recognize the other forms cited in the Word of Yahweh, God? It is not a prerequisite to go to heaven to have any one particular gift. The gifts are personall from the Father to His children, while miracles are everywhere for all providing they have eyes to see.[

Please stop this abject denial of what is taught in the Word of the other forms of tongues. It is unbecoming faith.

I will continue praying for your walk to be made best by our Lord and Savior. If you love me in Yeshua, you will pray the same for me in Yeshua, Jesus.

QUOTE=zone;1067121]that's fine.
but in every recorded case of people speaking in other human languges, which is what the gift was, there was ALWAYS a Jew present.

that is who the SIGN was for.



Why not calm down about 6000 notches? and do more of what you require?
Im not a cessationists but i do like to discuss.
Patience is required JaumeJ remember?[/QUOTE]

My only considered advice to you is that you stop inventing and leveling charges of being out of it. What I have posted is reason from the Word. If you are one who wishes to put Yahweh's gifts to the test, I am afraid you are the one who must calm down, and stop calling others names. The Blood of Yeshua is the salvation of mankind, if you do not respect this, I am very sorry for you. I am cleansed by His Holy Blood, will you confess this?

 

[weakness]

1Co 14:2: The word "for" is a conjunction connecting 1Co 14:1 and 2. Paul was giving the reason he instructed them to desire prophecy above other spiritual gifts. Speaking in tongues is us communing with God, but prophecy is God speaking through us to man. In the church, we should seek to edify others, not ourselves Prophecy edifies others, while speaking in tongues only edifies the person who is speaking.

How is the discovery journey coming along? Seems like this topic brings up a lot of heat/mixed-emotions.[/QUOTEI disagree with your half true statement.1 Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spoke with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interperate, that the church may receive edifying. Notice the phrase "except he interperate "Tongues that are interpreted are equal to prophesy., because they are understood to the listeners. and edify.14:12...seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interperate. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. tongues is communing with God only when there is no interpretation.

 

[JaumeJ]

1Co 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

 

[JaumeJ]

Let us examine this. Seeking a sign? Trying to scientifically prove if a gift is or is not?

That is a vacuum or total lack of faith.

Were any here who are so opposed to the gift of tongues given to the children by the Father for a personal communication question they do or do not, only the Father can possibly know this.

As for personal judgments. You again show your ignorance of the teaching of Yeshua Who tell the former scribes and pharisees, "Judge for yourselves what is right, hypocrites."

Snotty? I say this in the most placid state of mind, just who do you think you are? Who was addressing you? Right some folks need to be glued together in the forum in order to level these names at others.

So it appears you would want me to act as the hypocrites and not judge for myself what is right. This is godless. If you do not believe this, study the word hypocrite as used by Yeshua, and you will find it is translated also as godless.

Concerning "flying verses," if it is pertinent to Yeshua's Word, it is appropriate.

Are you washed in the Blood of Yahweh's Lamb? Will you confess at least? Yeshua, Jesus, is Lord, amen.

You are quite a helper in this examination of the validity of what Yahweh does for His children.

Proving all things does not mean putting Yahweh to the test.

Poor/bad application for what Jesus meant "seeking a sign"
Terrible jab saying its a demonstration of no faith, not a lack of faith, none.
not unlike your many personal snotty judgements.
I really notice that verse you fly and its just seems innapropriate JaumeJ

 

[Abiding]

Let us examine this. Seeking a sign? Trying to scientifically prove if a gift is or is not?

That is a vacuum or total lack of faith.

Were any here who are so opposed to the gift of tongues given to the children by the Father for a personal communication question they do or do not, only the Father can possibly know this.

As for personal judgments. You again show your ignorance of the teaching of Yeshua Who tell the former scribes and pharisees, "Judge for yourselves what is right, hypocrites."

Snotty? I say this in the most placid state of mind, just who do you think you are? Who was addressing you? Right some folks need to be glued together in the forum in order to level these names at others.

So it appears you would want me to act as the hypocrites and not judge for myself what is right. This is godless. If you do not believe this, study the word hypocrite as used by Yeshua, and you will find it is translated also as godless.

Concerning "flying verses," if it is pertinent to Yeshua's Word, it is appropriate.

Are you washed in the Blood of Yahweh's Lamb? Will you confess at least? Yeshua, Jesus, is Lord, amen.

You are quite a helper in this examination of the validity of what Yahweh does for His children.

Proving all things does not mean putting Yahweh to the test.

Read your first sentence...notice the words "seeking signs" and the word "test" see?
Wrong!, faith "tests all things" because faith comes by the Word of God that says "test all things"

My issue posting to you hasnt anything to do with zones thread or what she is after past
what she said in the OP.

There you go being snotty again. And calling my salvation into question, because im clipping you
for your judging...the kind thats forbidden. There are judgements you are exhorted to make...Those
im fine with. You just have them backwards.

Hold off on telling me what im helping on please...my motives are past your paygrade to know.
I payed you much respect as an elder till you started trashing folk....no more.

Who do i think i am? Ha! like whats that mean? Like having a talk to you from my lower level spiritually or somptin?

By the way im not opposed to the gifts, nor am i glued to anyone....but go ahead with that if it helps your whining.

 

[JaumeJ]

You well know I refer to testing or provoking Yahweh. If anyone wishes to go around testing the brethren that would be a real personal problem.

The investigation of the gifts is investigating if the Word is true or not.



There is no manner to investigate whether a person has the gift to pray in tongues or not. This is between the person and the One Who gave the gift. In the meantime when a brother or sister is not harming the assembly in praying privately to Yahweh, it is moot to ridiculous to investigate.

This would require a gift of knowledge from on high, and without it, I restate the entire post.

Do you claim the Blood of Yeshua, Jesus for your salvation? I confess His precious Blood saves me. Yeshua, Jesus is Lord and God, amen.

Again, the following is what is being "investigated" by the ones in question:

1Co 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


In the meantime you are whining to me to the point of stalking. If you do not have your own thoughts on the matter, consult your cohorts. I am sorry if I have made you uncomfortable, but I must convey what I know from the Word, it cannot be just a few friends agreeing with each other. Yahweh bless you with His Light and none other, amen...

Read your first sentence...notice the words "seeking signs" and the word "test" see?
Wrong!, faith "tests all things" because faith comes by the Word of God that says "test all things"

My issue posting to you hasnt anything to do with zones thread or what she is after past
what she said in the OP.

There you go being snotty again. And calling my salvation into question, because im clipping you
for your judging...the kind thats forbidden. There are judgements you are exhorted to make...Those
im fine with. You just have them backwards.

Hold off on telling me what im helping on please...my motives are past your paygrade to know.
I payed you much respect as an elder till you started trashing folk....no more.

Who do i think i am? Ha! like whats that mean? Like having a talk to you from my lower level spiritually or somptin?

By the way im not opposed to the gifts, nor am i glued to anyone....but go ahead with that if it helps your whining.

 

[kenisyes]

could you cite any sources which prove by MMR that Jesus is by-passing the brain to prompt one to speak in unknowable noises?

or whatever the MMR study is saying?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/07/health/07brain.html?_r=0 is the latest with the pictures, but the interpretation has changed over the years, I suspect being influenced by more of the copycats.
http://chrestomathy.cofc.edu/documents/vol10/Rockower 2011.pdf lacks pictures but is more detailed.

 

[kenisyes]

that's fine.
but in every recorded case of people speaking in other human languges, which is what the gift was, there was ALWAYS a Jew present.

that is who the SIGN was for.

But that's because the recorded cases are from before the fall of Israel. Could the modern recorded cases, such as Piper's, be explained by saying that we are the New Israel? The sense would be accomodated, tongues are a sign for the saved, prophecy for the unsaved?

 

[kenisyes]

so far, he is the only one who practices tongues who has ventured to even address the fact that they DID cease.

I was there as Catholic theology (still officially cessationist today as far as I know) "bent" to fit the new happenings in the Cath Ch in the 1970's. They spent much thought on how they could be "restored", and the reason why they ceased had to be a part of that thinking. Catholics have a continuing tradition of miracles worked by saints that offered a simple basis to explain things (the gifts did not stop, they simply became rare since they had been suppressed from the worship events), and that is the one they gave. Once thought of, plenty of supporting evidence was found.

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

[video=youtube;jzipsG3-S6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzipsG3-S6A[/video]