Faith is reckoned as righteousness

[PeterJens]

You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.
Rev 2:10

Paul says our faith is reckoned as righteousness.

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
Rom 1:17

We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Rom 4:9

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:30

By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings.
Heb 11:4

So if this applies to Abraham it also applies to us as Paul says.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

Theologians seemed to have passed over this righteousness.
Why does God regard faith as righteousness?

It is simply without a relationship, everything will always die as God is life and the source of life itself, love, and love is eternal. So no matter how right you are, unless you are plugged in and working you will become a dry branch.

 

[Skinski7]

You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.
Rev 2:10

Paul says our faith is reckoned as righteousness.

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
Rom 1:17

We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Rom 4:9

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:30

By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings.
Heb 11:4

So if this applies to Abraham it also applies to us as Paul says.

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

Theologians seemed to have passed over this righteousness.
Why does God regard faith as righteousness?

It is simply without a relationship, everything will always die as God is life and the source of life itself, love, and love is eternal. So no matter how right you are, unless you are plugged in and working you will become a dry branch.

God reckons faith itself as righteousness because faith is reflective of the condition of the heart. Faith represents the inward motivations, a heart abiding in the will of God.

Outward deeds can be performed for all manner of motives but the deeds of a faith that works by love are the true deeds of righteousness and that is the standard God requires.

It is through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ that we are set free from the law of sin and death, by following Christ's example of walking according to the Spirit that the righteousness of the law may indeed be fulfilled in us.

 

[Skinski7]

Many on this board are adherents to Reformed theology, a theology rooted in the false teachings of John Calvin. John Calvin denied that it is a working faith that pertains to justification. To him justification was premised in an abstract provision and the faith that justifies was merely "trusting" in that provision, a faith devoid of any working principle that purifies the heart (Act 15:9).



Here is one of my favourite John Calvin quotes:

"23. Hence also it is proved, that it is entirely by the intervention of Christ’s righteousness that we obtain justification before God. This is equivalent to saying that man is not just in hi
mself, but that the righteousness of Christ is communicated to him by imputation, while he is strictly deserving of punishment. Thus vanishes the absurd dogma, that man is justified by faith, inasmuch as it brings him under the influence of the Spirit of God by whom he is rendered righteous. This is so repugnant to the above doctrine that it never can be reconciled with it."
Institutes of the Christian Religion - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

This quote is one of the clearest examples which depicts as to how deluded John Calvin indeed was. John Calvin could not conceive in His mind how FAITH is the WORKING DYNAMIC by which the grace of God is made effectual to the saving of the soul.

In this quote Calvin defends the JESUS CLOAK, the imputed righteousness of Christ, and decries an active faith by which one yields to God and is thus purified. He calls the truth an "absurd dogma."

We read in Acts the following statement...

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

It is faith that purifies the heart. Why? Because FAITH OBEYS!

Look at this passage...

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The soul is purified how? Through obedience to the truth through the Spirit. Notice that being born again is by the "word" of God. Compare to this passage...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

It is the implanted word that saves the soul. How does it save the soul? Through RECEIVING it. When one RECEIVES the implanted word they are DOERS OF THE WORD.

Doing is the opposite of not doing.

Receiving is the opposite of rejecting.

Obeying is the opposite of disobeying.

Look at what Jesus said here...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Notice it is the DOERS who shall enter the kingdom.

What is the characteristic of those Jesus rejects?

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They are WORKERS OF INIQUITY. They were not doers.

Carefully read this passage where Paul speaks that it is the DOERS who keep the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW that shall be justified. They keep the law not in the letter but in the Spirit for the letter can only ever be an outward description of righteous behaviour while true righteousness emanates from a pure heart which is yielded to God.



Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The law is a mere shadow of a faith that works by love. For it is by faith that God justifies a man.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
John Calvin taught that the obedient track record of Jesus Christ (His righteousness) is credited to the believer. This lie completely negates the dynamic of faith by which true heart purity is produced in a repentant sinner.

Let's look again at what James stated...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

James clearly states that one must lay aside ALL iniquity in order to RECEIVE the implanted word.

There are two kinds of people, those who work iniquity and those who have been purified by an obedient faith.

As Peter asserted our souls are purified by obedience to the truth through the Spirit (1Pet 1:22). Notice what Paul says here...

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

It is through the Spirit that we obey the truth and are made clean. This is the mechanic of salvation, it is how salvation actually works. It is identical to Jesus' teaching on the necessity of ABIDING IN HIM.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no-one can go to the Father except through Him. Why?

It is because Jesus is the WORD. Jesus is the LIGHT. Jesus is the source of LIFE.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


Jesus Christ is the operating dynamic of ultimate truth. Out of Him proceeds everything and He proceeds out of the Father. It is through Jesus Christ that we can approach the Father, He is the intermediary for He proceeds out of God, He is the expression of God manifested directly to us.

The message of Jesus is very simple. He taught that we are to stop walking our own way in rebellion to God, we do this through a broken repentance which produces the willingness to yield to God with a whole heart and mind. It is through a genuine repentance and faith that one becomes a doer of the word by which God then manifests His love and power through our hearts enabling us to love God and our neighbour from a pure heart. This is how our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees who only had a form of godliness outwardly but were inwardly corrupt.


Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It is really a simple message and it takes a theologian to obfuscate it.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The righteousness of faith comes through believing into the perfect faith of Christ. It is the latter faith that imputes perfect righteousness. The righteousness of God is revealed through believing out of our faith into Christ's perfect faith. As it is written,

This is the work of God: that you believe into the one [the father] sent. John 6:29​

And again,

For [in the gospel] is the righteousness of God revealed out of faith into faith: as it is written, "The righteous will live out of faith". Romans 1:17​

And again, when we abide out of our faith in Christ's perfect faith, we see him as he is.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:2-3​

So it's not faith itself or acts of faith that make one righteous (for this would just make faith a work of law), but it is through faith that we abide in the perfect faith of Christ, and thereby are declared righteous.

Righteous conduct proves our faith is real.

 

[coby]

And they say Word of Faith is weird. You have this WOF guy here, snot was blubbering all over the place. How are you doing brother? Awesome! Halleluja! I am healed.

Imputed healing, it's counted as healing by faith. Oh my.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Many on this board are adherents to Reformed theology, a theology rooted in the false teachings of John Calvin. John Calvin denied that it is a working faith that pertains to justification. To him justification was premised in an abstract provision and the faith that justifies was merely "trusting" in that provision, a faith devoid of any working principle that purifies the heart (Act 15:9).



Here is one of my favourite John Calvin quotes:

"23. Hence also it is proved, that it is entirely by the intervention of Christ’s righteousness that we obtain justification before God. This is equivalent to saying that man is not just in hi
mself, but that the righteousness of Christ is communicated to him by imputation, while he is strictly deserving of punishment. Thus vanishes the absurd dogma, that man is justified by faith, inasmuch as it brings him under the influence of the Spirit of God by whom he is rendered righteous. This is so repugnant to the above doctrine that it never can be reconciled with it."
Institutes of the Christian Religion - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

This quote is one of the clearest examples which depicts as to how deluded John Calvin indeed was. John Calvin could not conceive in His mind how FAITH is the WORKING DYNAMIC by which the grace of God is made effectual to the saving of the soul.

Naw. Faith doesn't "do" anything....it is but the open hand of reception for God’s DOING.

 

[PeterJens]

Many on this board are adherents to Reformed theology, a theology rooted in the false teachings of John Calvin.

My impression is most of us are actually ignorant of the different positions and how they are built. We are probably aware of the consequences of it.

Today it struck me how automatically we condemn ourselves so quickly we continually feel condemned. A common prayer on Sunday is "Lord forgive us for the things we know we should have done but failed to do."

Now I am all for repentance and humbleness but not self condemnation over issues that are personal and probably wrong.

To mitigate this effect people then talk about Jesus's righteousness being imputed, so they are safe.
But if we stand alone, looking at who we are, taking love and life seriously, where are we?

It is easy to excuse things occasionally but I think excusing has become permanent. And one reason is because very often we behave like we are alone even in church. We talk about sharing and ideals, but are very scared to begin to walk in this for real. But I think this is the lie we have bought from the world, and are failing to trust Christ in one another.

Maybe one reason is because we buy off our consciences, with these calvanistic ideas, not seeing the fruit is a frozen church and unresolved sin that needs the community to help with, pray for and ask the Lord to bring healing.

 

[Grace777x70]

The gospel doesn't demand faith...it supplies faith. God is fully persuaded about us and it's the faith of Christ that brought about our salvation. We don't have faith in our faith..we have His faith in us as we hear the gospel. He is our righteousness. Jesus did it all in His finished work on the cross and resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.

Romans 10:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. ( hint: there is no "our" in Hebrews 12:2 in Greek as it reads in KJV)

Hebrews 12:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

My impression is most of us are actually ignorant of the different positions and how they are built. We are probably aware of the consequences of it.

Today it struck me how automatically we condemn ourselves so quickly we continually feel condemned. A common prayer on Sunday is "Lord forgive us for the things we know we should have done but failed to do."

Now I am all for repentance and humbleness but not self condemnation over issues that are personal and probably wrong.

To mitigate this effect people then talk about Jesus's righteousness being imputed, so they are safe.
But if we stand alone, looking at who we are, taking love and life seriously, where are we?

It is easy to excuse things occasionally but I think excusing has become permanent. And one reason is because very often we behave like we are alone even in church. We talk about sharing and ideals, but are very scared to begin to walk in this for real. But I think this is the lie we have bought from the world, and are failing to trust Christ in one another.

Maybe one reason is because we buy off our consciences, with these calvanistic ideas, not seeing the fruit is a frozen church and unresolved sin that needs the community to help with, pray for and ask the Lord to bring healing.

God is Righteous, and what God is man is not. Man is a created, contingent and dependent creature. If man could self-generate righteousness, he would be God, and have no need for Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The gospel doesn't demand faith...it supplies faith. God is fully persuaded about us and it's the faith of Christ that brought about our salvation. We don't have faith in our faith..we have His faith in us as we hear the gospel. He is our righteousness. Jesus did it all in His finished work on the cross and resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father.

Just another "grace" believer twisted falsehood. Yes, GOD provides the faith we need, but he also commands it.

And this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23​

 

[PeterJens]

God is Righteous, and what God is man is not. Man is a created, contingent and dependent creature. If man could self-generate righteousness, he would be God, and have no need for Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

You seem to be suggesting if someone in Christ is walking righteously, this is walking without Christ, and is self generated.
In your model, the redeemed people will in eternity be walking in sin. At some point before heaven comes to earth, the Kingdom people will have to walk without sin.

You cannot imagine this reality away, it is part of the package. The question is not if, it is when?

And the question that occurs to me is how? Either most mature christians are walking in righteousness and not realising it, or no one has made it.

If you read the list of behaviour issues, it is pretty clear what is what. Are people so lost in sin, they cannot stop this sin?

I have asked in the past examples of this, but people just say they sin every day. One contributor said shouting in their hearts at other car drivers and wanting to murder them. Anger management issues, and yes this is sin if taken to the area of actual murder ideas.

 

[Skinski7]

My impression is most of us are actually ignorant of the different positions and how they are built. We are probably aware of the consequences of it.

The majority of professing Christian's believe what they do because someone else taught them those things. Very few people actually sit down and read the Scripture and reflect upon it with a good and honest heart.

Modern popular Christianity is a complete farce. It is premised on the doctrine of Original Sin ala "sin you will and sin you must" because one is "born a sinner." Thus with no "ability" to yield to God repentance is redefined to be a "confession of sinfulness." Thus one "confesses they are a sinner" and "received Jesus." They teach that the death of Christ effected a "provision" whereby they in effect swap places with Jesus, their vice is transferred to Jesus and His virtue is transferred to them, ALL POSITIONAL

Thus the dynamic that transforms the heart is ripped from the Gospel and replaced with a judicial application of "being saved." That is why these people will always argue in favour of ongoing sin. They have to because their underlying belief structure demands it. Everything has been turned upside down.

Today it struck me how automatically we condemn ourselves so quickly we continually feel condemned. A common prayer on Sunday is "Lord forgive us for the things we know we should have done but failed to do."

If you know you ought do something and refuse to do it then you are still in rebellion to God.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The sin has to stop in repentance or it NEVER will. God will not force you to obey Him, you have to CHOOSE to submit and that choice is wrought through godly sorrow working a repentance UNTO salvation.

Godly Sorrow -----------> Repentance -----------> Salvation

Salvation is wrought through the quickening of the Holy Spirit whereby our spirit is brought back to life, we are raised up with Christ into the heavenly places. Hence we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves (ie. we have to plug into God for His power to manifest through us).

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It is the workmanship of God which leaves us in a pure state having been redeemed from all iniquity.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

This message has been destroyed by the modern false gospel with its underlying Original Sin and Substitution framework.

Now I am all for repentance and humbleness but not self condemnation over issues that are personal and probably wrong.

To mitigate this effect people then talk about Jesus's righteousness being imputed, so they are safe.
But if we stand alone, looking at who we are, taking love and life seriously, where are we?

Well if you are still sinning against God then you are a child of the devil.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Yet Jesus Christ can destroy the WORKS OF THE DEVIL in your life if you will but submit to Him. Repent and yield to Him, follow Him. Jesus saves us FROM sin (Mat 1:21).

Satan wants to deceive people that they are saved IN their sins as opposed to being saved FROM their sins. That way the doors of the kingdom are shut because people lack an understanding that they can be truly delivered.

It is easy to excuse things occasionally but I think excusing has become permanent. And one reason is because very often we behave like we are alone even in church. We talk about sharing and ideals, but are very scared to begin to walk in this for real. But I think this is the lie we have bought from the world, and are failing to trust Christ in one another.

Maybe one reason is because we buy off our consciences, with these calvanistic ideas, not seeing the fruit is a frozen church and unresolved sin that needs the community to help with, pray for and ask the Lord to bring healing.

It is not just Calvinism, it is the WHOLE SYSTEM that is corrupt. Arminian and Moral Government theology are just as dangerous.

Prayer by sinners will not do any good if they will not REPENT.

Sinners MUST repent.

[video=youtube;sBLSkIrxtOk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLSkIrxtOk[/video]

 

[FreeNChrist]

The majority of professing Christian's believe what they do because someone else taught them those things. Very few people actually sit down and read the Scripture and reflect upon it with a good and honest heart.

Modern popular Christianity is a complete farce. It is premised on the doctrine of Original Sin ala "sin you will and sin you must" because one is "born a sinner." Thus with no "ability" to yield to God repentance is redefined to be a "confession of sinfulness." Thus one "confesses they are a sinner" and "received Jesus." They teach that the death of Christ effected a "provision" whereby they in effect swap places with Jesus, their vice is transferred to Jesus and His virtue is transferred to them, ALL POSITIONAL

Thus the dynamic that transforms the heart is ripped from the Gospel and replaced with a judicial application of "being saved." That is why these people will always argue in favour of ongoing sin. They have to because their underlying belief structure demands it. Everything has been turned upside down.




If you know you ought do something and refuse to do it then you are still in rebellion to God.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The sin has to stop in repentance or it NEVER will. God will not force you to obey Him, you have to CHOOSE to submit and that choice is wrought through godly sorrow working a repentance UNTO salvation.

Godly Sorrow -----------> Repentance -----------> Salvation

Salvation is wrought through the quickening of the Holy Spirit whereby our spirit is brought back to life, we are raised up with Christ into the heavenly places. Hence we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves (ie. we have to plug into God for His power to manifest through us).

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It is the workmanship of God which leaves us in a pure state having been redeemed from all iniquity.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

This message has been destroyed by the modern false gospel with its underlying Original Sin and Substitution framework.



Well if you are still sinning against God then you are a child of the devil.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Yet Jesus Christ can destroy the WORKS OF THE DEVIL in your life if you will but submit to Him. Repent and yield to Him, follow Him. Jesus saves us FROM sin (Mat 1:21).

Satan wants to deceive people that they are saved IN their sins as opposed to being saved FROM their sins. That way the doors of the kingdom are shut because people lack an understanding that they can be truly delivered.



It is not just Calvinism, it is the WHOLE SYSTEM that is corrupt. Arminian and Moral Government theology are just as dangerous.

Prayer by sinners will not do any good if they will not REPENT.

Sinners MUST repent.

That was quite a rant. Feel better now??

 

[Grace777x70]

Some of my thoughts on "repentance".

The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ".

In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.

There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )

To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work.

We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us.

There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.

The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ. This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.

Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.

Anyone that is interested can listen to examples of this in the video below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with our Lord as we learn more of Him and we will live a lifelong

 

[Grace777x70]

Opps..forget the video...this talks about how words have been "hi-jacked" by man-made traditions.. believe the gospel of the grace of Christ.


[video=vimeo;142883678]https://vimeo.com/142883678[/video]

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by FreeNChrist

God is Righteous, and what God is man is not. Man is a created, contingent and dependent creature. If man could self-generate righteousness, he would be God, and have no need for Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

You seem to be suggesting if someone in Christ is walking righteously, this is walking without Christ, and is self generated.
In your model, the redeemed people will in eternity be walking in sin. At some point before heaven comes to earth, the Kingdom people will have to walk without sin.

You have to realise that these people are caught up in a strong delusion. They believe in a doctrine where "sinning" is associated with being in a "flesh body" which is why they simply cannot contend that the sin can ever stop this side of the grave. They perceive being present in a human body with wickedness itself, ie. they think we are "born sinners" irrespective of CHOICE.

Thus they deem any "doing" whatsoever as it relates to "justification" as teaching "salvation by works." The "need for Jesus" they believe in is the "Substitutional Model of Atonement" a "legal justification which is purely judicial and not connected to the condition of the heart."

So when the Bible teaches that justification is premised on "hearing and doing" ie. yielding wholeheartedly to the Spirit of God whereby our hearts are transformed via the love of God being shed abroad within they cannot understand that as it completely contradicts the foundation of their theology. They perceive the transformation of the heart as part of a "sanctification process" which is disconnected from "justification." Hence, in their view, one is "justified IN sin" and then "gradually cleaned up but never completely" (hence they rip 1Joh 1:8 out of context).

When they say "no need for Jesus Christ" in opposition to any REQUIRED DOING, it is in the context of their believe in the post 11th Century Substitution models of atonement, ie. the swapping places doctrine. So in effect, in their mind, by promoting DOING AS MANDATORY it is refuting their religion, refuting their false view of substitution.

The whole system is one of error governed by the error of the wicked. It takes great diligence to escape with the first step being a genuine repentance experience.

You cannot imagine this reality away, it is part of the package. The question is not if, it is when?

And the question that occurs to me is how? Either most mature christians are walking in righteousness and not realising it, or no one has made it.

If you read the list of behaviour issues, it is pretty clear what is what. Are people so lost in sin, they cannot stop this sin?

I have asked in the past examples of this, but people just say they sin every day. One contributor said shouting in their hearts at other car drivers and wanting to murder them. Anger management issues, and yes this is sin if taken to the area of actual murder ideas.

They cannot stop their sin because they believe in "sin we will and sin we must." They believe in Original Sin, one of the greatest deceptions of all time.

 

[Skinski7]

Here is a documentary which utterly refutes the Original Sin doctrine and explains exactly how it redefines the Gospel message.

[video=youtube;KVQ1t5i058Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVQ1t5i058Q[/video]

 

[coby]

Just another "grace" believer twisted falsehood. Yes, GOD provides the faith we need, but he also commands it.

And this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23​

Faith comes by hearing and it is a gift from God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You have to realise that these people are caught up in a strong delusion. They believe in a doctrine where "sinning" is associated with being in a "flesh body" which is why they simply cannot contend that the sin can ever stop this side of the grave. They perceive being present in a human body with wickedness itself, ie. they think we are "born sinners" irrespective of CHOICE.

Thus they deem any "doing" whatsoever as it relates to "justification" as teaching "salvation by works." The "need for Jesus" they believe in is the "Substitutional Model of Atonement" a "legal justification which is purely judicial and not connected to the condition of the heart."

So when the Bible teaches that justification is premised on "hearing and doing" ie. yielding wholeheartedly to the Spirit of God whereby our hearts are transformed via the love of God being shed abroad within they cannot understand that as it completely contradicts the foundation of their theology. They perceive the transformation of the heart as part of a "sanctification process" which is disconnected from "justification." Hence, in their view, one is "justified IN sin" and then "gradually cleaned up but never completely" (hence they rip 1Joh 1:8 out of context).

When they say "no need for Jesus Christ" in opposition to any REQUIRED DOING, it is in the context of their believe in the post 11th Century Substitution models of atonement, ie. the swapping places doctrine. So in effect, in their mind, by promoting DOING AS MANDATORY it is refuting their religion, refuting their false view of substitution.

The whole system is one of error governed by the error of the wicked. It takes great diligence to escape with the first step being a genuine repentance experience.


They cannot stop their sin because they believe in "sin we will and sin we must." They believe in Original Sin, one of the greatest deceptions of all time.

Pheww. Thank God I am not one of "these people" as I do not believe in “original sin”....at least not in the Augustinian/Calvinistic sense.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Faith comes by hearing and it is a gift from God.

Naw. That would make God the culpable cause of the unbelief of those who He has demanded faith of, but who cannot exercise such faith because He has denied it to them. Not a chance.

Just as you said it comes, not by being gifted to some and not others, but by hearing the Word of God.