Flood - worldwide or local?
- Thread starter Locutus
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E
1. Yes a leaf.. It does not change anything though, I never said the vine was dead..
2. I would be assuming if I would say with all certainty that a dove, under today atmospheric conditions. can travel the exact same way the did after the flood... I do not like to base my beliefs on assumptions I am sure you are thee same..
so did it have a motor too? (I am retired US Coast guard.. I have spend many years on the deep oceans so I think I know a thing or two about how a ship that has no power reacts. with or without a rudder. )
B
how do you know it budded, does scripture say this? If it doesn't than that is speculating as well.
No one was there to know how or where the dove got the leaf, maybe God had a leaf suspended for the dove. To say the olive tree sprouted or budded is purely a guess.
IMO I don't need a bunch of reasons to believe in what I hear and see. Just a simple statement as the dove return with a leaf is good enough for me to believe.
No one was there to know how or where the dove got the leaf, maybe God had a leaf suspended for the dove. To say the olive tree sprouted or budded is purely a guess.
IMO I don't need a bunch of reasons to believe in what I hear and see. Just a simple statement as the dove return with a leaf is good enough for me to believe.
I don’t think it was local . The phrase; “face of the earth indicate the whole”. All life that had breathe perished. If it was local then to bring two of each creature to repopulate would seem to be out of place.
He would have just moved some to a dry place for six months. .
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
I think previously the highest mountain was 22.5 feet (15 cubits ). The mountains were covered . Not how high above.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
He would have just moved some to a dry place for six months. .
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
I think previously the highest mountain was 22.5 feet (15 cubits ). The mountains were covered . Not how high above.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
E
Did it have a leaf? Then it budded..
but yes you would be right, it would be an assumption, forgive me.
true, But then how could Noah know that the water receded then? the leave becomes meaningless if it did not come of a tree..
Same here, and also the statement to know that Noah because of said leaf, knew the water receded..
I am still however, trying to figure out how you think this proves a local flood..
but yes you would be right, it would be an assumption, forgive me.
true, But then how could Noah know that the water receded then? the leave becomes meaningless if it did not come of a tree..
Same here, and also the statement to know that Noah because of said leaf, knew the water receded..
I am still however, trying to figure out how you think this proves a local flood..
One might think Peter was referring to Noah's flood! They would be incorrect! The "tell" on this is "and the earth standing out of water and in the water,"....According to the writers account of Noah's flood, the water was some 24.5 feet ABOVE the highest mountain, right?....If this is true?...There would be NO earth standing out of the water. Right? Apparently, then, Peter wasn't teaching concerning Noah's flood.
What Peter was teaching, or trying to impart, or "feed" the sheep, was " heavens were of old", and, "the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water." Peter is teaching about the previous earth and heaven age! Compare, " But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word," Peter is teaching about this current earth and heaven age. What is even of much more importance, is just who, or, whom Peter was teaching about! One could say, Peter was teaching about ungodly men, but it goes even deeper then this, and the whom Peter was teaching about! Which is "The OVERTRHOW" or, "Katabol"! Those that make men ungodly, and MAKE men "Willfully Forget". God caused Noah's flood, as a REMINDER to those of the overthrow! What's more?...God didn't relent from the flood waters, until, those of the overthrow, sued for a truce, via the dove with an olive branch! Remember? The raven he sent out first, never came back! There's even a demonination that call themselves "Noahhides, er Noahhites" er something like that.
(Jesus' disclaimer) If, perchance, I offended thee by "overloading your donkey", so to speak, with the truth? Then you have my permission to slap me on the face! After which I shall turn my face, so you may slap the other side! THIS, was what Jesus was teaching about in those verses, and NOT being a pacifist!
What Peter was teaching, or trying to impart, or "feed" the sheep, was " heavens were of old", and, "the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water." Peter is teaching about the previous earth and heaven age! Compare, " But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word," Peter is teaching about this current earth and heaven age. What is even of much more importance, is just who, or, whom Peter was teaching about! One could say, Peter was teaching about ungodly men, but it goes even deeper then this, and the whom Peter was teaching about! Which is "The OVERTRHOW" or, "Katabol"! Those that make men ungodly, and MAKE men "Willfully Forget". God caused Noah's flood, as a REMINDER to those of the overthrow! What's more?...God didn't relent from the flood waters, until, those of the overthrow, sued for a truce, via the dove with an olive branch! Remember? The raven he sent out first, never came back! There's even a demonination that call themselves "Noahhides, er Noahhites" er something like that.
(Jesus' disclaimer) If, perchance, I offended thee by "overloading your donkey", so to speak, with the truth? Then you have my permission to slap me on the face! After which I shall turn my face, so you may slap the other side! THIS, was what Jesus was teaching about in those verses, and NOT being a pacifist!
E
I used to be a GAP theorist.
But have since changed..
I think peter is making a point.. People in the last day will mock God saying things are the same as it has been since creation (all of todays aging techniques are based on this very logic, that things are the same,, even beyondET used this simple logic when he said the doves of today would act the same as during the flood)
And that just as they were eating and drinking then the waters came suddenly, so will the coming of Christ be
The flood was Gods judgement on eath for mans sin,, So to will the final flood of Gods wrath of fire..
But have since changed..
I think peter is making a point.. People in the last day will mock God saying things are the same as it has been since creation (all of todays aging techniques are based on this very logic, that things are the same,, even beyondET used this simple logic when he said the doves of today would act the same as during the flood)
And that just as they were eating and drinking then the waters came suddenly, so will the coming of Christ be
The flood was Gods judgement on eath for mans sin,, So to will the final flood of Gods wrath of fire..
Or maybe iI see the light now? 
You will have to forgive me, But we never get along in these debates.. It just turns nasty when we try, so I will bow out. and agree to disagree.. This topic is not Slavic, and would do nothing to help anyone out if we fight.
You will have to forgive me, But we never get along in these debates.. It just turns nasty when we try, so I will bow out. and agree to disagree.. This topic is not Slavic, and would do nothing to help anyone out if we fight.
E
Have "heard" of the gap, but thought that was some "hip" clothing store from the 60's er 70's.
Please.. the mocking attitudes do not do you any good.. If you think like Valient they are just joking, You should think again.. They are mockery, and people see it.
B
Well that's not the only way I determine the amount of the flood, since scripture doesn't state anything about two by two trees plants etc. being in the ark, with that one can only assume that all plants on the earth where in a bloom state, bearing friut seedlings to produce all the verities around today, that doesn't seem logical at all. Finding a leaf from a olive tree that doesn't produce Friut at least a minimum of three years more so within 5 to 12 years of age. Seems likely to me there was some trees left after the flood to produce another tree/fruit.
B
Well I was simply responding to your statement that the ark had no maneuvering and how do you know this fact?
As you stated you where in the coast guard, "thanks for serving by the way"' but as you know a ship can't maneuver without what a rudder, or sails or paddles ores or modern days a motor.. It's dead in the water toss by the waves to where ever.
As you stated you where in the coast guard, "thanks for serving by the way
"' but as you know a ship can't maneuver without what a rudder, or sails or paddles ores or modern days a motor.. It's dead in the water toss by the waves to where ever.