For those of you who didn't know - Obama is a Muslim

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S

stevef

Guest
OH! You saw a video did you? :p C'mon... you will have to do better than that. Actions speak louder than words. He does NOT seem to be a Christian.

I can't say definitively that I know the man's heart but I can simply look at the available evidence (a small sample of which I have shared here, and there is PLENTY more where that came from) and I can say that I do not believe he is a Christian.

I believe he is a chronic pathological liar and will say anything that he believes the audience in front of him wants to hear. And that includes crossing his fingers and mouthing any and all manner of platitudes for the incredulous Christian(?) Left.
Obama has been a fighter for the poor, oppressed and outcasts in society since his early adult days in Chicago right thru his presidency. Isn't that what Christ taught over and over in the New Testament? I'm still looking for the verses where he preached for big tax cuts for the rich, the cornerstone of conservative politics ala Reagan, Bush and Romney. Did you happen to vote for any of those 3? I respect your opinion, though I think you go waaay overboard in the namecalling, but I think you've been the victim of the right wing political propaganda machine.
 
D

danschance

Guest
1) False. What I said was true. Again quote the false claim I made and show how it is wrong. You are disagreeing with something no one here has claimed.

2) Totally irrelevant. No one here or anywhere apparently, has claimed that Obama attended a Madrasa. Why can't you get how this is a red herring that has NOTHING to do with the comments on this thread?

3) Completely False. The fact is that Obama did go to school registered as a Muslim. He was born into a Muslim Household and he was definitely and truly raised Muslim. That is what has been claimed here and it is true. You are lost in a fog of confusion about some irrelevant CNN smokescreen.

4) I am not interested in some irrelevant propaganda about refuting some claim no one has made.
a) prove it. (Sounds like complete nonsense to me -paranoid drivel backed up with nothing).
b) wrong. The source of the truth about Obama being raised Muslim is Obama's own autobiography.
c) Prove it. Provide exact quotes to show this is true - I not have never heard either make that definitive claim. I have however heard them say no one can really know this for sure. I say your claim is false.

It is easy to say "false, false, false.." and not cite a source that backs up your claim. I am not swayed by peoples mere opinion no matter how many times they repeat it. I tried to verify your claim that he said he was raised a muslim. I only found the opposite.
 
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It is easy to say "false, false, false.." and not cite a source that backs up your claim. I am not swayed by peoples mere opinion no matter how many times they repeat it. I tried to verify your claim that he said he was raised a muslim. I only found the opposite.
I have cited my source from the first time I made the claim!
What is your problem??!
It is from Obama himself, in his own words, from his own autobiography!
But you don't have to go read the book yourself (heaven forbid!) the info is widely available in condensed form.

Want more? (as I said plenty more where that came from);

"
The discovery that Obama has been wearing for over 30 years a ring with the first part of the Islamic declaration of faith, the Shahada, “There is no god except Allah”, will make sense to you if you read it, because you'll realize how important Islam has been in the President's life.

Read more: Obama Was Born and Raised a Muslim
Follow us: @EnzaFerreri on Twitter | enza.ferreri on Facebook

In conclusion, available evidence suggests that Obama was born and raised a Muslim and retained a Muslim identity until his late 20s. Child to a line of Muslim males, given a Muslim name, registered as a Muslim in two Indonesian schools, he read Koran in religion class, still recites the Islamic declaration of faith, and speaks to Muslim audiences like a fellow believer. Between his non-practicing Muslim father, his Muslim stepfather, and his four years of living in a Muslim milieu, he was both seen by others and saw himself as a Muslim.

"Barry Was Muslim"

But many pieces of evidence argue for Obama having been born and raised a Muslim:
(1) Islam is a patrilineal religion: In Islam, the father passes his faith to the children; and when a Muslim male has children with a non-Muslim female, Islam considers the children Muslim. Obama's grandfather and father having been Muslims – the extent of their piety matters not at all – means that, in Muslim eyes, Barack was born a Muslim.
(2) Arabic forenames based on the H-S-N trilateral root: All such names (Husayn or Hussein, Hasan, Hassân, Hassanein, Ahsan, and others) are exclusively bestowed on Muslim babies. (The same goes for names based on the H-M-D root.) Obama's middle name, Hussein, explicitly proclaims him a born Muslim.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
Obama's registration document at Santo Fransiskus Asisi, a Catholic school, in Jakarta. (Click to enlarge)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
(3) Registered as Muslim at SD Katolik Santo Fransiskus Asisi: Obama was registered at a Catholic school in Jakarta as "Barry Soetoro." A surviving document correctly lists him as born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961; in addition, it lists him having Indonesian nationality and Muslim religion. (4) Registered as Muslim at SD Besuki: Although Besuki (also known as SDN 1 Menteng) is a public school, Obama curiously refers to it in Audacity (p. 154) as "the Muslim school" he attended in Jakarta. Its records have not survived but several journalists (Haroon Siddiqui of the Toronto Star, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times, David Maraniss of the Washington Post) have all confirmed that there too, he was registered as a Muslim.
(5) Islamic class at Besuki: Obama mentions (Audacity, p. 154) that at Besuki, "the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies." Only Muslim students attended the weekly two-hour Koran class, Watson reports:
two of his teachers, former Vice Principal Tine Hahiyari and third-grade teacher Effendi, said they remember clearly that at this school too, he was registered as a Muslim, which determined what class he attended during weekly religion lessons. "Muslim students were taught by a Muslim teacher, and Christian students were taught by a Christian teacher," said Effendi.
Andrew Higgins of the Washington Post quotes Rully Dasaad, a former classmate, saying that Obama horsed around in class and, during readings of the Koran, got "laughed at because of his funny pronunciation." Maraniss learned that the class included not only studying "how to pray and how to read the Koran," but also actually praying in the Friday communal service right on the school grounds.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
Obama with his class at SD Besuki, a public school, in Jakarta.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
(6) Mosque attendance: Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's younger half-sister, said her father (namely, Barack's stepfather) attended the mosque "for big communal events," Barker found that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." Watson reports:
The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi, who describes himself as among Obama's closest childhood friends. … Sometimes, when the muezzin sounded the call to prayer, Lolo and Barry would walk to the makeshift mosque together, Adi said. "His mother often went to the church, but Barry was Muslim. He went to the mosque," Adi said.

(7) Muslim clothing: Adi recalls about Obama, "I remember him wearing a sarong." Likewise, Maraniss found not only that "His classmates recalled that Barry wore a sarong" but written exchanges indicating that he continued to wear this garment in the United States. This fact has religious implications because, in Indonesian culture, only Muslims wear sarongs.

(8) Piety: Obama says that in Indonesia, he "didn't practice [Islam]," an assertion that inadvertently acknowledges his Muslim identity by implying he was a non-observant Muslim. But several of those who knew him contradict this recollection. Rony Amir describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam." A former teacher, Tine Hahiyary, quoted in the Kaltim Post, says the future president took part in advanced Islamic religious lessons: "I remember that he had studied mengaji." In the context of Southeast Asian Islam, mengaji Quran means to recite the Koran in Arabic, a difficult task denoting advanced study.
In summary, the record points to Obama having been born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and having lived for four years in a fully Muslim milieu under the auspices of his Muslim Indonesian stepfather. For these reasons, those who knew Obama in Indonesia considered him a Muslim.

Obama's Muslim Childhood :: Daniel Pipes
 
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Obama has been a fighter for the poor, oppressed and outcasts in society since his early adult days in Chicago right thru his presidency. Isn't that what Christ taught over and over in the New Testament? I'm still looking for the verses where he preached for big tax cuts for the rich, the cornerstone of conservative politics ala Reagan, Bush and Romney. Did you happen to vote for any of those 3? I respect your opinion, though I think you go waaay overboard in the namecalling, but I think you've been the victim of the right wing political propaganda machine.

So you think Obama votes for the oppressed? (baloney!)
Are infant babies getting thrown in a dumpster oppressed?

Obama voted 'present' nearly 130 times as State Senator - YouTube

130 times he merely votes "present" but when it comes to voting to make a living baby have the rights of a living person
he voted NO.

In other words it is okay to stuff a living breathing baby surviving an abortion attempt into a closet till it dies and "then" throwing it in a dumpster.

'Born Alive' in Illinois

When Obama was a state senator, abortion opponents proposed "born alive" legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003. The proposals’ intent was to require doctors to provide immediate life-saving care to any infant that survived an intended abortion. The legislation, which included multiple bills, specified that an infant surviving a planned abortion is "born alive" and "shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law."

The bills' supporters said it gave added emphasis to laws already on the books, deterring the death of abortion survivors from neglect. (One of the bills' strongest supporters was a nurse who said she had witnessed infants left to die in dirty utility rooms.) Abortion-rights proponents, on the other hand, said the legislation was a back-door attempt to stop legal abortions.

Illinois already had a law on its books from 1975 that said if a doctor suspected an abortion was scheduled for a viable fetus — meaning able to survive outside of the mother's body — then the child must receive medical care if it survives the abortion. The new laws didn't distinguish between viable and nonviable, meaning that an infant of any age that survived an abortion should receive care.

Obama, along with other Democrats in the Illinois legislature, opposed the "born alive" laws every time they came up. Over the years, Obama offered several reasons he opposed the legislation.

PolitiFact | Rick Santorum said Obama said "any child" born prematurely "can be killed"
 
D

danschance

Guest
I have cited my source from the first time I made the claim!
What is your problem??!
It is from Obama himself, in his own words, from his own autobiography!
But you don't have to go read the book yourself (heaven forbid!) the info is widely available in condensed form.

Want more? (as I said plenty more where that came from);

"
The discovery that Obama has been wearing for over 30 years a ring with the first part of the Islamic declaration of faith, the Shahada, “There is no god except Allah”, will make sense to you if you read it, because you'll realize how important Islam has been in the President's life.

Read more: Obama Was Born and Raised a Muslim
Follow us: @EnzaFerreri on Twitter | enza.ferreri on Facebook

In conclusion, available evidence suggests that Obama was born and raised a Muslim and retained a Muslim identity until his late 20s. Child to a line of Muslim males, given a Muslim name, registered as a Muslim in two Indonesian schools, he read Koran in religion class, still recites the Islamic declaration of faith, and speaks to Muslim audiences like a fellow believer. Between his non-practicing Muslim father, his Muslim stepfather, and his four years of living in a Muslim milieu, he was both seen by others and saw himself as a Muslim.

"Barry Was Muslim"

But many pieces of evidence argue for Obama having been born and raised a Muslim:
(1) Islam is a patrilineal religion: In Islam, the father passes his faith to the children; and when a Muslim male has children with a non-Muslim female, Islam considers the children Muslim. Obama's grandfather and father having been Muslims – the extent of their piety matters not at all – means that, in Muslim eyes, Barack was born a Muslim.
(2) Arabic forenames based on the H-S-N trilateral root: All such names (Husayn or Hussein, Hasan, Hassân, Hassanein, Ahsan, and others) are exclusively bestowed on Muslim babies. (The same goes for names based on the H-M-D root.) Obama's middle name, Hussein, explicitly proclaims him a born Muslim.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
Obama's registration document at Santo Fransiskus Asisi, a Catholic school, in Jakarta. (Click to enlarge)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
(3) Registered as Muslim at SD Katolik Santo Fransiskus Asisi: Obama was registered at a Catholic school in Jakarta as "Barry Soetoro." A surviving document correctly lists him as born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961; in addition, it lists him having Indonesian nationality and Muslim religion. (4) Registered as Muslim at SD Besuki: Although Besuki (also known as SDN 1 Menteng) is a public school, Obama curiously refers to it in Audacity (p. 154) as "the Muslim school" he attended in Jakarta. Its records have not survived but several journalists (Haroon Siddiqui of the Toronto Star, Paul Watson of the Los Angeles Times, David Maraniss of the Washington Post) have all confirmed that there too, he was registered as a Muslim.
(5) Islamic class at Besuki: Obama mentions (Audacity, p. 154) that at Besuki, "the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies." Only Muslim students attended the weekly two-hour Koran class, Watson reports:
two of his teachers, former Vice Principal Tine Hahiyari and third-grade teacher Effendi, said they remember clearly that at this school too, he was registered as a Muslim, which determined what class he attended during weekly religion lessons. "Muslim students were taught by a Muslim teacher, and Christian students were taught by a Christian teacher," said Effendi.
Andrew Higgins of the Washington Post quotes Rully Dasaad, a former classmate, saying that Obama horsed around in class and, during readings of the Koran, got "laughed at because of his funny pronunciation." Maraniss learned that the class included not only studying "how to pray and how to read the Koran," but also actually praying in the Friday communal service right on the school grounds.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]
Obama with his class at SD Besuki, a public school, in Jakarta.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
(6) Mosque attendance: Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's younger half-sister, said her father (namely, Barack's stepfather) attended the mosque "for big communal events," Barker found that "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers." Watson reports:
The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi, who describes himself as among Obama's closest childhood friends. … Sometimes, when the muezzin sounded the call to prayer, Lolo and Barry would walk to the makeshift mosque together, Adi said. "His mother often went to the church, but Barry was Muslim. He went to the mosque," Adi said.

(7) Muslim clothing: Adi recalls about Obama, "I remember him wearing a sarong." Likewise, Maraniss found not only that "His classmates recalled that Barry wore a sarong" but written exchanges indicating that he continued to wear this garment in the United States. This fact has religious implications because, in Indonesian culture, only Muslims wear sarongs.

(8) Piety: Obama says that in Indonesia, he "didn't practice [Islam]," an assertion that inadvertently acknowledges his Muslim identity by implying he was a non-observant Muslim. But several of those who knew him contradict this recollection. Rony Amir describes Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam." A former teacher, Tine Hahiyary, quoted in the Kaltim Post, says the future president took part in advanced Islamic religious lessons: "I remember that he had studied mengaji." In the context of Southeast Asian Islam, mengaji Quran means to recite the Koran in Arabic, a difficult task denoting advanced study.
In summary, the record points to Obama having been born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and having lived for four years in a fully Muslim milieu under the auspices of his Muslim Indonesian stepfather. For these reasons, those who knew Obama in Indonesia considered him a Muslim.

Obama's Muslim Childhood :: Daniel Pipes
Thank you posting something other than your opinion. I do appreciate it.

Unfortunately, you have quoted a man, Daniel Pipes, who has been described in negative terms by politico and Media Matters. See the links below Daniel Pipes is a political commentator for Fox News, which is a right wing slanted news/entertainment. So I consider Daniel Pipes to be on par with Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanity in that his "journalism" is very biased and some of his claims are at best, distortions. He is not credible.

Now you had mentioned that Obama claimed to be a muslim or registered as a muslim in Jakarta. I have not been able to confirm your claim. In fact, I can't even find a reference to it. Now that is odd concerning it would make world headlines.

Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood | Research | Media Matters for America

The Muslim smear, version 2.0 - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com
 
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Thank you posting something other than your opinion. I do appreciate it.

Unfortunately, you have quoted a man, Daniel Pipes, who has been described in negative terms by politico and Media Matters. See the links below Daniel Pipes is a political commentator for Fox News, which is a right wing slanted news/entertainment. So I consider Daniel Pipes to be on par with Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanity in that his "journalism" is very biased and some of his claims are at best, distortions. He is not credible.

Now you had mentioned that Obama claimed to be a muslim or registered as a muslim in Jakarta. I have not been able to confirm your claim. In fact, I can't even find a reference to it. Now that is odd concerning it would make world headlines.

Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood | Research | Media Matters for America

The Muslim smear, version 2.0 - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

Whether you like Pipes or not is immaterial.

"(4) Registered as Muslim at SD Besuki: Although Besuki (also known as SDN 1 Menteng) is a public school, Obama curiously refers to it in Audacity (p. 154) as "the Muslim school" he attended in Jakarta."

Obama himself called it a "Muslim school"
He himself describes being in Koran Study class.
Out of his own mouth...
QED
 
G

Grey

Guest
Whether you like Pipes or not is immaterial.

"(4) Registered as Muslim at SD Besuki: Although Besuki (also known as SDN 1 Menteng) is a public school, Obama curiously refers to it in Audacity (p. 154) as "the Muslim school" he attended in Jakarta."

Obama himself called it a "Muslim school"
He himself describes being in Koran Study class.
Out of his own mouth...
QED
Theres a greek mythology course at the college Im going to, if I go to it, does that make me a worshiper of Zeus? My friend went to a catholic school because he lived in an isolated town for 10 years, is he or was he a catholic? I can take Torah study course at my high school, does that make me Jewish?

Try again.
 
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Theres a greek mythology course at the college Im going to, if I go to it, does that make me a worshiper of Zeus? My friend went to a catholic school because he lived in an isolated town for 10 years, is he or was he a catholic? I can take Torah study course at my high school, does that make me Jewish?

Try again.
Nice try Grey. No need to 'try again'... no one is talking about classes he attended voluntarily as an adult. We are talking about not just going to a Catholic school as many non-Catholics do, but attending Koran study in the 'Catholic' school... this obstinate nonsense is obviously taking on a suspiciously characteristic Leftist DNC misinformation campaign at this point. Fer cryin' out loud - just reply directly to the facts presented thus far!

But beyond childhood upbringing...What about the Muslim ring he was photographed wearing as an adult?
(queue all but completely irrelevant Leftist propaganda video... now!....)

Note that we are mostly talking here about elementary school, and saying Muslim prayers at home, etc. and the claim that he was "raised" Muslim...?... can you stop for a moment with the idiot propaganda nonsense and just reply to the FACTS? ... so far not one Obama apologist has done so, just continual attempts at tangential redirects and blatant obfuscation

Demonstrating that he was "Raised Muslim in a Muslim household" means just that and only that.

Obama was obviously "Raised Muslim in a Muslim household"

that's it, that's all.


(enough with the redirects and obfuscation... the facts of Obama's own statements from his own mouth establish this much in irrefutable fashion)

The evidence is not just compelling but conclusive.
 
G

Grey

Guest
Nice try Grey. No need to 'try again'... no one is talking about classes he attended voluntarily as an adult. We are talking about not just going to a Catholic school as many non-Catholics do, but attending Koran study in the 'Catholic' school... this obstinate nonsense is obviously taking on a suspiciously characteristic Leftist DNC misinformation campaign at this point. Fer cryin' out loud - just reply directly to the facts presented thus far!

But beyond childhood upbringing...What about the Muslim ring he was photographed wearing as an adult?
(queue all but completely irrelevant Leftist propaganda video... now!....)

Note that we are mostly talking here about elementary school, and saying Muslim prayers at home, etc. and the claim that he was "raised" Muslim...?... can you stop for a moment with the idiot propaganda nonsense and just reply to the FACTS? ... so far not one Obama apologist has done so, just continual attempts at tangential redirects and blatant obfuscation

Demonstrating that he was "Raised Muslim in a Muslim household" means just that and only that.

Obama was obviously "Raised Muslim in a Muslim household"

that's it, that's all.


(enough with the redirects and obfuscation... the facts of Obama's own statements from his own mouth establish this much in irrefutable fashion)

The evidence is not just compelling but conclusive.
Yes, he was totally raised in a muslim household due to the fact that both his parents were irreligious, and the evidence is so conclusive when he says I am a Christian, has attended multiple public Christian worship sessions, had a Christmas tree in the white house, swore an oath on the bible twice, and has maintained wars with Muslim extremists.

Your evidence is SO CONCLUSIVE!

By what ingenious logic did you deduce that Obama was a muslim? Was it your own or some hardline rightwinger conspiracy website?
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
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Yes, he was totally raised in a muslim household due to the fact that both his parents were irreligious, and the evidence is so conclusive when he says I am a Christian, has attended multiple public Christian worship sessions, had a Christmas tree in the white house, swore an oath on the bible twice, and has maintained wars with Muslim extremists.

Your evidence is SO CONCLUSIVE!

By what ingenious logic did you deduce that Obama was a muslim? Was it your own or some hardline rightwinger conspiracy website?
He calls himself a Christian. I thought the job to judge otherwise falls on only one myself.
 
D

danschance

Guest
Whether you like Pipes or not is immaterial.

"(4) Registered as Muslim at SD Besuki: Although Besuki (also known as SDN 1 Menteng) is a public school, Obama curiously refers to it in Audacity (p. 154) as "the Muslim school" he attended in Jakarta."

Obama himself called it a "Muslim school"
He himself describes being in Koran Study class.
Out of his own mouth...
QED

Again this not about my opinion or my feelings. This is about the facts. You posted some, by the author is is on par with Rush Limbaugh in his facts. The two links I posted prove this. Media matters and politico are both sources often quoted by media. Daniel Pipes manufactures his own evidence.

So if you want to prove a point with me, please cite a credible source. I am open minded enough to read any credible source you cite.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
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I'm still trying to figure why it matters if he is muslim or not? Hes a president, not the national pastor...
 
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Yes, he was totally raised in a muslim household due to the fact that both his parents were irreligious, and the evidence is so conclusive when he says I am a Christian, has attended multiple public Christian worship sessions, had a Christmas tree in the white house, swore an oath on the bible twice, and has maintained wars with Muslim extremists.

Your evidence is SO CONCLUSIVE!

By what ingenious logic did you deduce that Obama was a muslim? Was it your own or some hardline rightwinger conspiracy website?
For the UMPTEENTH time!

The evidence presented here is NOT trying to prove what is in his heart concerning "Christian" status -- in the PRESENT.
No one can know that.

The evidence presented demonstrates that Obama was born and raised Muslim. He clearly said muslim prayers at home on a daily basis and went to school where he was registered as a Muslim and he went to Koran study. The way the Obamanites continue to gloss over this repeating a blatant falsehood in the same sentence is pure obstinacy.

The "born and raised Muslim" condition was stated PLAINLY in my post that you quoted. Then you deceptively reply with a re-framing of what the evidence is indicating (reframing it as something it was never meant to be) and then you sit back and proclaim there there has not been a presentation of evidence to prove a condition that no one is trying to prove!

This is DECEPTION on the part of the Leftists who continually repeat this Falsehood.

Beyond the obvious evidence that he was raised Muslim there is a fair amount of evidence that as an adult his behavior is not consistent with a practicing Christian, but more along the lines of a faithful Muslim, such as the request to cover the Christian symbols when he spoke at Georgetown, his Shahada ring, etc.

These were not presented as conclusive, only indicators.
 
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I'm still trying to figure why it matters if he is muslim or not? Hes a president, not the national pastor...
It matters if you care about how big a LIAR the man is.

The evidence presented also documents his bald faced LIES.
 
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Again this not about my opinion or my feelings. This is about the facts. You posted some, by the author is is on par with Rush Limbaugh in his facts. The two links I posted prove this. Media matters and politico are both sources often quoted by media. Daniel Pipes manufactures his own evidence.

So if you want to prove a point with me, please cite a credible source. I am open minded enough to read any credible source you cite.
More deception from the LEFT. Both Politico and Media Matters have been revealed to be completely unreliable as sources of accurate data. They are obvious Left wing misinformation machines.

Either refute the Daniel Pipes data presented clearly here (with credible sources) or admit the obvious.
Obama was born and raised Muslim.
He is a giant Liar.
His adult behavior is inconsistent with that of a practicing Christian.

Again, QED.

Your obstinate deep denial and obfuscation does not change that. The case has been convincingly made with factual data, documented with corroborated sources. (Though Deep Denial Leftists will continue to reside in deep denial). Hand waving at some MediaMatters rumor is a totally bogus smokescreen.
 
S

stevef

Guest
So you think Obama votes for the oppressed? (baloney!)
Are infant babies getting thrown in a dumpster oppressed?

Obama voted 'present' nearly 130 times as State Senator - YouTube

130 times he merely votes "present" but when it comes to voting to make a living baby have the rights of a living person
he voted NO.

In other words it is okay to stuff a living breathing baby surviving an abortion attempt into a closet till it dies and "then" throwing it in a dumpster.

'Born Alive' in Illinois

When Obama was a state senator, abortion opponents proposed "born alive" legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003. The proposals’ intent was to require doctors to provide immediate life-saving care to any infant that survived an intended abortion. The legislation, which included multiple bills, specified that an infant surviving a planned abortion is "born alive" and "shall be fully recognized as a human person and accorded immediate protection under the law."

The bills' supporters said it gave added emphasis to laws already on the books, deterring the death of abortion survivors from neglect. (One of the bills' strongest supporters was a nurse who said she had witnessed infants left to die in dirty utility rooms.) Abortion-rights proponents, on the other hand, said the legislation was a back-door attempt to stop legal abortions.

Illinois already had a law on its books from 1975 that said if a doctor suspected an abortion was scheduled for a viable fetus — meaning able to survive outside of the mother's body — then the child must receive medical care if it survives the abortion. The new laws didn't distinguish between viable and nonviable, meaning that an infant of any age that survived an abortion should receive care.

Obama, along with other Democrats in the Illinois legislature, opposed the "born alive" laws every time they came up. Over the years, Obama offered several reasons he opposed the legislation.

PolitiFact | Rick Santorum said Obama said "any child" born prematurely "can be killed"
I've never heard anybody yet that is "for abortion", but many, including myself, think it should be up to the woman to decide in extreme circumstances like rape, incest, and to save the life of the mother. And while I believe abortion under almost all circumstances is wrong because of my religion, it is a subject that has been debated way back to the days of ancient Greece. I believe it was Aristotle's position that abortion after the 3rd month was wrong. While it may be the position of many Christians that we become a human soul at conception, nobody but God knows exactly when a human being obtains a soul, and to say that you do know is putting yourself in God's shoes imo. While David speaks of God knowing him in his mother's womb, the Bible also uses the birthdate to describe how long people had lived, which we still use today. While Christ addressed many issues of the day, I don't find where he talked about abortion, which no doubt also went on in the Roman Empire. Christ did talk about many other issues, and again over and over about helping the poor and oppressed, which Obama has done as opposed to basing his politics on the cornerstone of big tax cuts for the wealthy. That doesn't mean I think Christ was in favor of abortion in certain instances or against it all instances. My gut feeling is I think he would feel it is up to the family in cases where it is done to save the life of the mother, but I really don't know because I don't know where he addressed the issue as he did so many others. I readily admit I don't have all the answers when it comes to the abortion issue but I don't think anybody else does either because of the many circumstance that can come up. I do believe God intended life to be created out of love between a man and a woman, not from a violent act of rape, incest, or even a drunken one night stand.
 
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Remember Jesus said, 'I am in the Father and the Father in me". Again. He said " Me and my Father are One". So everyone who believe in the Father must believe in the Son and Who ever believed in the Son must believed in the Father because they are one and inseparable.Jesus is God in the form of the Son. What I as saying in the message above is that we should stop calling peoples by different religious names so that those who say they believed in GOD but not in JESUS, we will be able to change and make them know that GOD is JESUS in the form of the Son and they are One. When we call them by different religious names, we make them run from us.
 

gert

Banned
Apr 3, 2013
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and for those of you who didn't know the christian god and muslim god are the same god
 
G

Grey

Guest
More deception from the LEFT.


Again, QED.

Your obstinate deep denial and obfuscation does not change that. The case has been convincingly made with factual data, documented with corroborated sources. (Though Deep Denial Leftists will continue to reside in deep denial). .
You sort of answered my question when I asked if you had found this on a far right religious web site, rather than taking the time to find and conclude this yourself.

We're done here, its clear you aren't open for any kind of open minded discussion, keep blaming the leftist boogy man.
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
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Obama was raised a muslim...dont care
Obama doesnt admit to it or lies about his upbrining...dont care
Still a better choice than Romney