forgiveness according to the truth

[PeterJens]

Forgiveness

I am learning the beatitudes. There is so much here.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matt 5:11-12

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Matt 5:7

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Matt 5:6

Jesus teaches mercy or forgiveness will be shown to those who are merciful or who
forgive.

Read this statement :-

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matt 6:14-15

This is a promise, a massive promise, a promise to cleanse and purify the heart, to find
rest in Christ. But it is also a statement of judgement, of were you are, and do you hold
your hurt and pain above that which God gives you through the cross?

If you ever see a mountain in the distance and a hill close up, which appears bigger?
The hill close up, yet the mountain is vast and so much more fantastic, yet you have
to get over the small hill to be able to see the vast mountain God has dealt with.

So there is a difficulty in all our lives to forgive, yet a vast ocean of love and forgiveness
the Lord gives us freely. Why would we not walk in the forgiveness of Christ and know
His love flowing through our hearts rather than hold on to our hurts in bitterness and hatred,
seeking out ways to bring about revenge.

 

[JaumeJ]

Once more, no one can argue with this. God bless you always.

Forgiveness

I am learning the beatitudes. There is so much here.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matt 5:11-12

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Matt 5:7

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

Matt 5:6

Jesus teaches mercy or forgiveness will be shown to those who are merciful or who
forgive.

Read this statement :-

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Matt 6:14-15

This is a promise, a massive promise, a promise to cleanse and purify the heart, to find
rest in Christ. But it is also a statement of judgement, of were you are, and do you hold
your hurt and pain above that which God gives you through the cross?

If you ever see a mountain in the distance and a hill close up, which appears bigger?
The hill close up, yet the mountain is vast and so much more fantastic, yet you have
to get over the small hill to be able to see the vast mountain God has dealt with.

So there is a difficulty in all our lives to forgive, yet a vast ocean of love and forgiveness
the Lord gives us freely. Why would we not walk in the forgiveness of Christ and know
His love flowing through our hearts rather than hold on to our hurts in bitterness and hatred,
seeking out ways to bring about revenge.

 

[royalscot]

I am not sure what you mean.

Salvation can't ask me about forgiveness. God told me about forgiveness, based on his son. And told me to trust him and he would save me.

do you claim, believing in a saviour is all you need for eternal life.

when did jesus tell, you about forgiveness, so you either read it, or someone spoke it to you.

that would still not answer context in the first post.(i wrote to you) did you believe first, or ask for forgiveness first.

answer the question you were asked in the first post.

 

[royalscot]

amen the first purpose of prayer is to seek the kingdom and His righteousness. the rest comes because of that. this is a really great comment. if we believe we need to forgive and that is sincere, we will find strength to do so in prayer because we believe what Jesus has said, knowing Who He is that our faith is in. If we refuse to acknowledge His teaching about forgiveness, we will never see the need to seek that change in prayer.

when we pray always part of that porayer should be asking God for the forgivness of those who have sinned against us, as well as our own forgiveness. Prayers shouldnt be about our succes, prosperity, blessing ect all the time, it should much more be for the power to do the things God has spoken for us to do. what you have said applies to anything. Ig im struggling with Lust, seek purity in thought in prayer ask of God and He will answer always. if greed is my issue, pray for a generous heart and be willing to give up the treasures we covet in prayer.....seek first His kingdom and righteousness and all things will be added unto you"

thanks for the great post God bless

you make a fine point.

amen the first purpose of prayer is to seek the kingdom and His righteousness(your quote)

then you make a bad point

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2

when did righteousness come through repentance.
love , joy , peace , etc
came through an other teacher,. to why you forgive.

 

[PeterJens]

Through obedience and following Jesus we gain forgiveness of our sins.

What is faith in someone? You believe what they are saying and you obey it because
it is trustworthy.

If someone said something, you believed it and did the opposite of what they suggested
did you ever believe them at all?

It is our obedience to advice that shows where our faith actually is.
We gain forgiveness for our sins by believing in Christ and following in obedience.
To not obey is to not believe Him.

Jesus says simply, I am not commanding you to forgive people, but if you do not forgive
you will not be forgiven. Innate within following Christ is having a forgiving heart, that does
not hold wrongs against others. It is the essence of love. To claim you have love and cannot
forgive you are not telling the truth.

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times."
Matt 18:21-22

And without forgiveness there is no salvation because we are still under judgement
for our sins.

So how we forgive is a life changing event, or not forgiving is a spiritual dead end.

Some think obedience is not bound to Christ. But think about this. Why is anyones
advice of value? Because it leads to action and how to perform various tasks.
If there is no advice about these things, they what they are saying has no content
or value.

And if you listen and believe the advice, you show this by following it.

Somehow people have separated agreement with someone from the advice they are giving,
and appointing the rewards of following the advice without actual doing anything, which is
the total delusion and rebellion against the advice itself.

But the reward is so great, and the tasks so hard, it is easy to get confused between
believing someone, the supernatural transformation to empower action, and the action
itself. If the supernatural transformation never emerges, then the rest fails, which seems
to describe too many peoples actual experience.

And forgiving is one of the cornerstones of salvation. You cannot be saved unless you
learn how to forgive. It is both this serious and this difficult.

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:14

 

[preacher4truth]

Through obedience and following Jesus we gain forgiveness of our sins.

Um. No. That would be called heresy.

 

[Grace777x70]

We receive the forgiveness of sins when we hear and believe the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

NOT from "doing things or forgiving others first". We are however being "obedient to the faith" - by believing in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.

Here is a word-for-word account of the true message of the gospel being preached by Peter.

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

Here is Paul preaching the same gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and saying the exact same thing in Acts 13.

Forgiveness of sins in the New Covenant after the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus when He with His blood bought our redemption. We receive the forgiveness of sins when we believe in what Christ has already done.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Forgiveness in the New Covenant is not based on what we do - but what Christ has already done with His blood. His blood purchased our forgiveness.

We forgive now because we have a new heart. We forgive because He has already forgiven us. Awake to righteousness and sin not - awake, sober up to who you are in Christ now and the life and fruit of His life will manifest in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to know of our Father's great and love and grace towards them.

 

[Adstar]

Originally Posted by PeterJens

Through obedience and following Jesus we gain forgiveness of our sins.

Um. No. That would be called heresy.

Yes indeed that's 100% works salvation preaching right there preacher4truth....
We are saved by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our forgiveness..
All praise and glory to Jesus for his righteousness and zero boasting for our pathetic attempts at obedience...

 

[JaumeJ]

The thread seems to be changing. Are we now discussing salvation in Jesus Christ or the
fundamentals of forgiveness?

We are saved by Jesus Chrsit, and we are to forgive if we are to be forgiven..........God bless
all in Jesus Christ and all who are subject to the God of order, amen.

 

[PeterJens]

Now I understand how to try and separate out works justifying ourselves before God
people end up denying obedience and walking in faith.

Let me imagine a ravine between two parts of land with a narrow bridge between them.
The advice is run across the bridge and you will get safely to the other side and be saved.

People jump up and down saying we are saved, halleluyah, we have believed the word,
we are in the Kingdom, everything is ok.

Another group rejoice in the good news and run across the bridge to safety.

Now who truly believed the words and who imagined they believed but actually did nothing?

Now forgiveness is such an issue.
It is faith in Christ that does save us because we put it into action, which is the actual
indication we have believed.

A plane is due to crash into the building you are in. A person comes and tells you the good
news you are saved, if you leave the building before 12 and nothing will happen to you.

So people are rejoicing and happy that they are saved but do nothing and do not leave
the building. The plane comes and wipes them out. Did they really believe the words or
only rejoice that there was a solution, but then did nothing about it.

 

[Grace777x70]

The thread seems to be changing. Are we now discussing salvation in Jesus Christ or the
fundamentals of forgiveness?

We are saved by Jesus Chrsit, and we are to forgive if we are to be forgiven..........God bless
all in Jesus Christ and all who are subject to the God of order, amen.

We forgive now because we are forgiven . We are in the New Covenant. Everyone who believes in Christ has received the forgiveness of sins because of the blood of Jesus - NOT because we forgive first.

This is how a works-based salvationists mindset is created - by trying to achieve by what "we do" - what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection. That is "law-based" thinking that nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

We need to rightly divide all scripture through the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection or we end up perverting the true gospel.

 

[BeyondET]

The truth about forgiveness, IMO it's a life style.

 

[PeterJens]

Why is it so hard to forgive?

1. Because they had no right to hurt me
2. I was innocent and suffered harm and need restitution
3. I deserve what I have and how dare they take it away
4. I do not do anything similar to other people
5. I will take back from them what they have taken from me
6. It hurts and the only solution is revenge

All the above are things that are true, maybe, and stand as a block to
forgiveness. But this one action robs us of something often small but makes
it appear the most important thing in the world to us. It almost starts to
possess our thinking and emotional intentions. It can become a soul destroying
reality which starts to define our value.

What helps to understand the other person

1. They are just like us
2. They are sinners slaves to disfunctional behaviour
3. They do the same crazy unthinking stuff as us
4. Their sinful behaviour is like a tree falling in the road, best avoided.
5. All we can do to help is show love and forgiveness to bring healing
6. Their actions do not matter to my relationship to God
7. I want with all of my heart to bring love into their lives and help them

Forgiveness sets us free from the pain of loss, revenge, bitterness, possessiveness,
entitlement, privilege, superiority, arrogance, worldliness.
It brings us closer to the suffering Christ bore, to bare anothers sins and to help them
find Christ.

And to forgive is to find the heart of Christ.

It is this foundational and this difficult it defines what we might call true spiritual maturity.

 

[PeterJens]

Why is forgiveness so important?

Everyday we have things that we need to forgive, or that hurt or disappoint us.
These build up into resentment and a desire for revenge and entitlement.

It comes out in our conversations, in our aspirations, in our holiday plans, in who
we make friends with and who we ignore. It changes who we value and what we
value, it effects almost every decision we make.

 

[Adstar]

Now I understand how to try and separate out works justifying ourselves before God
people end up denying obedience and walking in faith.

No we did not end up denying that striving to obey the Teachings of Jesus is right and good.. We rightly stood up against the preaching that our Obediance ""we gain forgivness of our sins""

We stand up for the truth that ""Jesus Gained forgivness of our sins"" through what He did to save us. You can keep preaching that you gain forgivness for yourself through your obediance if you like, But when the day of Judgement comes don't waste your breath stand before Jesus and boast about all your works of obediance... Because Jesus will say ''' I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity""

So many people are in for a devastating shock upon the day of Judgement..

 

[Grace777x70]

The more we focus on Christ and His forgiveness for us - the more the life and fruit of His life will manifest in and through us to forgive others and to love them.

The whole Christian life can be seen in Peter walking on the water. As long as he kept His eyes on Jesus and not the situation - he walked on water.

Forgiving others will be as natural as loving others as we see how much we are forgiven. We love because He first loved us. Jesus is the source of al things in our life.

We forgive now from our heart in the New Covenant - in the new creation which is in Christ because we are already forgiven because of the blood of Christ. In Him we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

When Christ Himself is revealed to us - we too will be revealed with Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and will be forever. 1 Cor. 6:17 We put on Christ who is in our inner man of the heart and that heart which has been created in righteousness and holiness loves and forgives others. It's the new creation's true nature being manifested.

 

[PeterJens]

I heard a preacher who said we only need to forgive believers.

I think he had never embraced what forgiveness is really all about.
It is about need and brokenness, that nothing in ourselves works and we need communion
with God to walk any steps we take and know how to progress.

There is never a time when we are not totally dependent of the Lords love and guidance.

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Phil 1:21

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth.
Matt 5:5

 

[BeyondET]

Why is forgiveness so important?

Everyday we have things that we need to forgive, or that hurt or disappoint us.
These build up into resentment and a desire for revenge and entitlement.

It comes out in our conversations, in our aspirations, in our holiday plans, in who
we make friends with and who we ignore. It changes who we value and what we
value, it effects almost every decision we make.

i agree and along with that My view is forgiveness isn't about a definition about others or of others but how it defines me. Forgiveness is a choice liken to believing as well.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is importnt to bear in mind always that it was Abraham who first received the Gospel long before the law was given to Moses.

We forgive now because we are forgiven . We are in the New Covenant. Everyone who believes in Christ has received the forgiveness of sins because of the blood of Jesus - NOT because we forgive first.

This is how a works-based salvationists mindset is created - by trying to achieve by what "we do" - what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection. That is "law-based" thinking that nullifies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

We need to rightly divide all scripture through the finished work of Christ on the cross and resurrection or we end up perverting the true gospel.

 

[Grace777x70]

No we did not end up denying that striving to obey the Teachings of Jesus is right and good.. We rightly stood up against the preaching that our Obediance ""we gain forgivness of our sins""

We stand up for the truth that ""Jesus Gained forgivness of our sins"" through what He did to save us. You can keep preaching that you gain forgivness for yourself through your obediance if you like, But when the day of Judgement comes don't waste your breath stand before Jesus and boast about all your works of obediance... Because Jesus will say ''' I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity""

So many people are in for a devastating shock upon the day of Judgement..

Well said...that is the difference between a works-based mindset which really denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ and the true believing in what Christ has already done by "His work" on the cross and resurrection.

The works-based salvationists mindset says "We gain by what we do." It is really the opposite of the grace of God and the gospel message in the New Covenant.