FROM THE DESK OF......

[p_rehbein]

Here Neami......start with these three: Two from Christ and Paul chimes in

John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

D0N'T FORGET THIS ONE!

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

 

[Grandpa]

I think some folks experience brain freeze when they read the word Obedience....... Seriously.

IF you read the OP.......READ the Scriptural support.....THEN I do not understand how you can be confused.

My assertion was that we NEED to be obedient to Christ..........Obedience, just like good works, is a FRUIT of Salvation!

But when folks see the word Obedience........ALL THEY SEE IS THE MOSAIC LAWS......and they go wacco!

I can just imagine seeing them

View attachment 179680

I guess its ok to not understand your own theology.

I just wonder why you don't directly answer any of the questions.

There are a few people around here that do this same thing. Its like they think people don't understand what they are teaching if they ask questions.

But what's really happening is people are wondering if YOU truly understand what you are teaching by their questions.


Maybe we should go back to the beginning and ask if it is our obedience that secures salvation or if it is grace and forgiveness that secures salvation.

Keep it simple.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Of course it's a good verse AND it has everything to do with your thread. You are posting verses about works being rewarded and I'm posting that the Bible says; we are not rewarded for our works we are all that we are because of Jesus. We have the blessings of God IN Christ., not IN and because of our works.

Our inheritance is found not in our works of righteousness that we have done... but 100% because of what Jesus gave us IN and because of His righteousness.

Titus 3:5-7 says GOD saved us through his mercy rather than our works of righteousness so that we might become heirs of eternal life. The verb might become is in the subjunctive mood which means - "The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances".

In other scriptures it is said that no one who practices lawlessnes will inherit the kingdom of GOD or eternal life.

So it does appear that the condition of obedience to not practice sin determines our destiny.

 

[joaniemarie]

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[FONT=&quot]The Galatians lost their liberty in Christ by allowing themselves to be enslaved to the yoke of the law. In their case the issue was circumcision, but for us it could be anything that puts a price tag on grace—church rules, confession of sins, the spiritual disciplines, whatever. I’m not against these things. I’m saying there is nothing we can do to add or improve upon Christ’s perfect work.[/FONT]
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We stand by grace alone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The Galatians had a different view. Some guys with long faces and long knives came preaching mixture and the Galatians bought it hook, line, and sinker. But does this mean the Galatians were now unsaved, under condemnation, and hell-bound? No. Falling from grace does not mean falling out of the kingdom.[/FONT]
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“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.” (Gal 5:4)[/FONT]
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The NIV Bible says the Galatians alienated themselves from Christ. Other translations say they became estranged, separated, severed, and cut off. These are serious words with serious implications, but they do not imply condemnation.[/FONT]
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Who cut them off? It wasn’t Christ.[/FONT]
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Who did the separating? Not Jesus.[/FONT]
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As always, he remains the thoroughly faithful husband who keeps us safe while promising that no one, not even ourselves in a moment of stupidity, can snatch us out of his hands.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Paul never tells the Galatians, “You are losing your salvation.” Instead, he says, “You are indulging the flesh” (Galatians 5:13). They were becoming carnal, biting and devouring one another in vicious arguments. The danger is not that God will destroy them, but that “you will be destroyed by each other” (Galatians 5:15).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Remove grace from any community and you will soon have quarrels, strife, bickering, manipulation, envy, hatred, and all the other works of the flesh that Paul lists in Galatians 5:19–21. But none of these things will send you to hell.[/FONT]
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When Paul reminds the Galatians that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom,” he’s saying, “Those who belong to Christ shouldn’t act like those who don’t.”[/FONT]
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If Christians were kicked out of the kingdom every time they walked after the flesh, heaven would be empty[/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

hey you dancing elephant you... I can't be that off since "brother Grandpa" also answered you along the same lines. I see our threads as sort of crossing and meeting at the intersection. We are saved by grace through faith.,, we walk the Christian life by grace through faith....

 

[Grandpa]

BTW: Your saying..........

Does your ROSE score go down?

What if you were a little late on your obedience but eventually you were obedient?

Does this make your ROSE score go down too?

What score do I need to make it in? 700? 640? a perfect 850?

If I declare that this has been too difficult and decide to start over does this negatively affect my ROSE score for 7 yrs?

is nothing more than trying to discredit my OP by CREATING something I never said or implied in the OP.........

The only possible connection you could try and use to justify making all this up and posting it as a false representation of my OP is when I stated "Secure Eternity."

I did nothing more than say what Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

so, mayhaps you are confused about there being some score one must achieve, you should take it up with Him?

I already know the "score" that is required. I have no confusion about that at all.

I was asking questions to see if you knew what score was required as well.


There is a reason why the Lord Jesus Christ says the things He says. I know what some of those reasons are now.

If you can't answer simple questions about your own theology I suppose you don't know the reasons the Lord says what He says. It appears you have made assumptions that aren't true. I suppose we all have a little of that. Blindspots, I call them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What if you tried to remain obedient but you missed?

Does your ROSE score go down?

It's not about keeping score. It's about abiding in him so that we can turn to him and be cleansed by his blood when we fall.

 

[joaniemarie]

Titus 3:5-7 says GOD saved us through his mercy rather than our works of righteousness so that we might become heirs of eternal life. The verb might become is in the subjunctive mood which means - "The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances".

In other scriptures it is said that no one who practices lawlessnes will inherit the kingdom of GOD or eternal life.

So it does appear that the condition of obedience to not practice sin determines our destiny.

No., He who has the Son of God has life... he who has not the Son of God has not life...but the wrath of God abides on them... He who has the Spirit is one of His.. if we don't have the Spirit we are none of His.

It's not about our behavior... It's about our PEDIGREE ... Born again or not. That's the criteria.

 

[p_rehbein]

I guess its ok to not understand your own theology.

I just wonder why you don't directly answer any of the questions.

There are a few people around here that do this same thing. Its like they think people don't understand what they are teaching if they ask questions.

But what's really happening is people are wondering if YOU truly understand what you are teaching by their questions.


Maybe we should go back to the beginning and ask if it is our obedience that secures salvation or if it is grace and forgiveness that secures salvation.

Keep it simple.

You have failed to answer my questions.......and I have no problem understanding my idea.......you, however......well......that's a whole 'nudder ball game......

READ the Scriptures......then tell me which of them we are NOT to be obedient to please........

and, IF we are to be obedient to them.......then does not our remaining obedient to Christ secure our eternity?

Jesus did say:

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


The Scriptures state that obedience is very important.....so how exactly does my saying "remaining obedient secures eternity" differ from what the Scriptures themselves are saying?

It is not my lack of understanding......but I fear you just are not there yet......


John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Isaiah 1:19 - If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

John 14:21 - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Tell me which of these you understand? Because, to this point, you have shown zero understanding of them.

You want to deflect from the Scriptures in the OP by making up stuff I did not state......you created them

 

[Nehemiah6]

I can see what you are saying.......SO, would you PLEASE inform Christ of this?

Suggest you actually READ the Scriptures I provided.......and SEE what Jesus Himself said

I did read the Scriptures you quoted, and not one of them supports your idea that obedience secures the eternal life of the believer with Christ. We could take them one by and and see that while they teach obedience, they do not teach obedience for eternal security. And Isaiah 1:19 is taken out of context. It was applicable to Israel under the Old Covenant.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ohhhhh... so grace kicks in when we fail to do it in our flesh? So God wants us to be better versions of our flesh than we were before we got saved? Sooo Jesus died to give us a leg up?? So now it's up to us to complete the race set before us?? NOT

No, grace kicks in when we fail to do it in the spirit.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You didn't answer my question. What WOULD you call the ten commandments, and all the other commandments in the bible? You stated God did NOT give us commandments, so what would you call them? The bible proves you wrong...

John 1:7 The law came by Moses. But grace and truth came by Jesus Christ...

[SUP]6 [/SUP]For out of His fullness (abundance) we have all received [all had a share and we were all supplied with] one grace after another and spiritual blessing upon spiritual blessing and even favor upon favor and gift [heaped] upon gift.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For while the Law was given through Moses, grace ([SUP][a][/SUP]unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]No man has ever seen God at any time; the only [SUP][b][/SUP]unique Son, or [SUP][c][/SUP]the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].

 

[p_rehbein]

I already know the "score" that is required. I have no confusion about that at all.

I was asking questions to see if you knew what score was required as well.


There is a reason why the Lord Jesus Christ says the things He says. I know what some of those reasons are now.

If you can't answer simple questions about your own theology I suppose you don't know the reasons the Lord says what He says. It appears you have made assumptions that aren't true. I suppose we all have a little of that. Blindspots, I call them.

Continuing to tapdance are we?

That's ok......I know it is how you do things when you are caught by the short hairs as they say.

You falsely created some "score" thing, and then when called out on it.........you want to deflect by saying it is me that does not understand.....so very typical of you guys here.......

There IS a reason why Jesus said what He did:

BECAUSE HE EXPECTS US TO OBEY HIM!

Obedience to Christ is necessary....no matter how you OSAS'ers try and get around it.....it is necessary.

How you guys think one can live a life in disobedience to Christ and STILL receive eternal life is one of the great mysteries of our time........

Commandments are given, and God/Christ expects them to be obeyed........and THIS INCLUDES THE TWO GREATEST. fOR THEY are COMMANDMENTS.......you know, those things you don't think are necessary

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Then what would you call the ten COMMANDMENTS, and all the other commandments in the bible?

All commandments in the old testament are the law of Moses. All commandments in the new testament are the law of Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

I did read the Scriptures you quoted, and not one of them supports your idea that obedience secures the eternal life of the believer with Christ. We could take them one by and and see that while they teach obedience, they do not teach obedience for eternal security. And Isaiah 1:19 is taken out of context. It was applicable to Israel under the Old Covenant.

Well, it may be that you need to have a conversation with Christ........because He is the One who stated it......sorry you can not understand His words

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

John 1:7 The law came by Moses. But grace and truth came by Jesus Christ...

But grace and truth don't preclude law (commandments). They preclude the law of Moses. Jesus brought new law.

I will raise up for them a Prophet like you [Moses] from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. . Deuteronomy 18:18-19

I [Jesus] have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me... John 5:43

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. John 12:47-49​

 

[p_rehbein]

For you naysayers.......read this and mayhaps your eyes will see?

Why is obedience to God important? - GotQuestions.org

 

[Grandpa]

Titus 3:5-7 says GOD saved us through his mercy rather than our works of righteousness so that we might become heirs of eternal life. The verb might become is in the subjunctive mood which means - "The action of the verb will possibly happen, depending on certain objective factors or circumstances".

In other scriptures it is said that no one who practices lawlessnes will inherit the kingdom of GOD or eternal life.

So it does appear that the condition of obedience to not practice sin determines our destiny.

No. That is an assumption made up by people who only understand working for their salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness doesn't come by our obedience to the law? Then how does righteousness come so that we can know how to inherit the Kingdom of God?


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[p_rehbein]

No. That is an assumption made up by people who only understand working for their salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness doesn't come by our obedience to the law? Then how does righteousness come so that we can know how to inherit the Kingdom of God?


​

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Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[joaniemarie]

You didn't answer my question. What WOULD you call the ten commandments, and all the other commandments in the bible? You stated God did NOT give us commandments, so what would you call them? The bible proves you wrong...

I answered you., our calling is not to obey commandments. Our calling is to walk in the Spirit. When we walk in the Spirit we will do the things we are called to do. If we walk in the flesh., it will be IMPOSSIBLE to do anything in the Spirit that is fruitful.

[SUP]Gal.5:16 [SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).



22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][a][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][b][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][c][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]