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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#461
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#461
So my question was, how do I bring my sinful desires into submission to...me? Your answer is this:

Ralph- said:
Have peace in you. Have self control in you. Have forgiveness in you. Have compassion in you (that's the biggee). Have joy in you. Have patience in you. Etc.
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And I think I'm gathering by the rest of your post that if I then ask, yes, but HOW do I get that peace, self control and peace in me? - that your answer is to read my bible and go to church and praise and worship God?
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#462
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#462
eternally-gratefull said:

The only people that does that is you, imagining we see this self righteous thingy every time people mention works.

That's not true, That's your imagination.
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No, pretty much every supposition that we have a choice is met with some form of 'then your salvation is self-righteous'.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#464
#464
Ralph- said:
While true, it's just not an informative and complete answer.
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'

Your right, I only gave a small list of what it was not, there is so much More.


but I gave a complete list of what it was.

"BY TRUSTING IN GOD.".

anything else is focus on self. and takes away from God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#465
#465
RickyZ said:
No, pretty much every supposition that we have a choice is met with some form of 'then your salvation is self-righteous'.
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well you. yeah, Because that's all you talk about

But everyone, No. We can talk about works, and it is not legalism, because our works procede from God and are not done to earn salvation, To gain salvation, pr to maintain salvation.

You want people to stop saying those things. then stop making salvation determined by them
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#466
#466
Stunnedbygrace said:
I actually thought it was a complete and informative answer...I'll give it some more thought though...
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what else other than "trusting in Christ" (faith) Is there?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#467
#467
Anyway you all have a great weekend, I am gonna head home and start my weekend :)
 
J

joaniemarie

Senior Member
#468
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#468
eternally-gratefull said:
Not by laws, Not by rules. Not by religion, Not by focusing on self. Not by working out a performance based system.

By TRUSTING IN GOD.
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And by walking in the spirit man... When we trust God in our flesh.. it can be a very defeatist thing. There is a mind of the flesh and a mind of the Spirit. Learning about the differences was major for me. What motivates us when we deal with our day to day lives with our selves and others? As well as different situations that happen to us in life?

If we are driving down the road in our car praising the Lord and all of the sudden we get cut off by a Bozo... what happens?

Even still with me I can have the reflex of wanting to zap the guy like they do on StarWars when they push the button with their thumb and blow up the enemy. That is my flesh and I've been learning to see it by the spirit. I used to condemn myself but found the Holy Spirit never condemns because I'm a new creation in Christ.

My flesh is not the new creation so it will not do as I want. I have to master "IT" And that is done by the new man empowered by the Holy Spirit working in me.

Coming to cc is a study in this. How often do we get zapped by other people's misunderstandings or mean words? How often do we feel a need to zap back? That is most definitely the flesh. But we have to yield to the Spirit in us. Our born again spirit man yields to the Holy Spirit. Not the flesh., the flesh will not yield. To try to bend our flesh in the power of our flesh causes stress and anguish., guilt and shame. Bending the flesh doesn't cause genuine change. It only forces something that cannot be forced. Jesus already defeated and killed the power of the flesh.

The flesh will figure out ways to zap people back without looking like it's zapping people back. The flesh is deceitful in every way. We learn to discern ourselves by our motivations whether they are of the flesh or of the Spirit. If my motivation is anger, impatience and annoyance it's not coming from the Spirit., it's from my flesh and I cannot allow myself to be lead away by it.

When I am acting from my new creation., I CAN and WILL submit to the Holy Spirit's leading without stress. I then get the peaceable fruits of righteousness flowing again. I don't get that when the flesh is leading. When we are doing it in our flesh we have momentary success that must be maintained by our will power which eventually will fade in and out as we deal with other issues in life.

Again, it tells us how to know the differences from what the flesh does vs what the spirit does. Also., we need His infilling to do this daily. Be ye being filled. He will train us to be steadfast and balanced not sporadic and double minded.

Gal.5:13-26

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][a][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][b][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][c][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][d][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][e][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]
26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#474
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#474
p_rehbein said:
How does this differ from what I said in Post #322?

Curious........ :)
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If you mean this..."Obedience to Christ IS ONLY ACHIEVED BY BELIEVING IN HIM! Without belief/faith.......there IS NO OBEDIENCE"..

It (post#322) has nothing to do with the imputed righteousness of Christ. You never once mentioned the free gift of righteousness credited to our account in post #322. It is based on His obedience, not ours. Ours is just the beggar's hand of faith receiving the perfect obedience of Jesus Christ as a free gift.


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif](Rom 5:19)[/FONT]


.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#475
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
#475
Ok...focus girls...the men are trying to have a honest discussion here...

Oh wait, this post belongs on that other thread about why woman shouldn't teach....;)

Sorry I couldn't stop myself from posting this .....lol:pjk
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#476
#476
Stunnedbygrace said:
And I think I'm gathering by the rest of your post that if I then ask, yes, but HOW do I get that peace, self control and peace in me? - that your answer is to read my bible and go to church and praise and worship God?
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You seem to be putting a cold dead spiritless spin on that. Don't go to just any church. Get in a fellowship that knows and teaches these things I'm saying. Very few churches do.

The bottom line is, we grow up into Christ through knowledge.


"since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator."-Colossians 3:9-10

"built up13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."-Ephesians 4:12-13


When we know Christ in the way of the fruit of the Spirit intimately in our hearts, that is when we have power to do right. Learning about the character of Christ as seen in the fruit of the Spirit is the key to growing up in and living the Christian life. Cold dead 'religion' isn't going to get you there. You have to fellowship with God's Spirit.

You can talk about trusting Christ all day long, but you have to be educated in and acquainted with the ways of the Spirit, and possess those ways in you to then obey him as he commands. It's all about learning about and having the fruit of the Spirit in your heart. The main fruit being love which binds all the fruit and virtues of God together (Colossians 3:14) because care and compassion for others is the attribute of God that ultimately gives us power and motivation to obey. When you have this love in you through an intimate knowledge of Christ through the Spirit you have what will bring you to the obedience commands of you.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#477
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#477
Ralph- said:
You seem to be putting a cold dead spiritless spin on that. Don't go to just any church. Get in a fellowship that knows and teaches these things I'm saying. Very few churches do.

The bottom line is, we grow up into Christ through knowledge.


"since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator."-Colossians 3:9-10

"built up13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."-Ephesians 4:12-13


When we know Christ in the way of the fruit of the Spirit intimately in our hearts, that is when we have power to do right. Learning about the character of Christ as seen in the fruit of the Spirit is the key to growing up in and living the Christian life. Cold dead 'religion' isn't going to get you there. You have to fellowship with God's Spirit.

You can talk about trusting Christ all day long, but you have to be educated in and acquainted with the ways of the Spirit, and possess those ways in you to then obey him as he commands. It's all about learning about and having the fruit of the Spirit in your heart. The main fruit being love which binds all the fruit and virtues of God together (Colossians 3:14) because care and compassion for others is the attribute of God that ultimately gives us power and motivation to obey. When you have this love in you through an intimate knowledge of Christ through the Spirit you have what will bring you to the obedience commanded of you.
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I'm so glad you said I seemed to be putting a cold, dead, spiritless spin on that! Because I thought your post seemed to be not explaining how to NOT have a spiritless spin on it.

When you say you can talk about trusting Christ all day long but you have to be educated and acquainted with the ways of the Spirit and possess those ways in you to then obey Him as He commands, could you expound any on that? Maybe like, how do I become acquainted with the ways of the Spirit?

Lastly, if those churches really are so few, what's your advice on how to find one of those few if it's necessary to find one, while simultaneously it is very hard to find one?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#478
#478
Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm so glad you said I seemed to be putting a cold, dead, spiritless spin on that! Because I thought your post seemed to be not explaining how to NOT have a spiritless spin on it.
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And that is what I'm trying to express.
Cold dead meetings aren't going to get you to an intimate knowing relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. You have to be in a church that is plugged in. You have to have a church run and headed by a person who knows about all this. Few are. I'm not calling them false. I'm calling them powerless. Powerless because of a lack of knowing Christ intimately and seeing him in the Spirit. Powerlessness is directly related to a lack of knowledge about these things.



Stunnedbygrace said:
When you say you can talk about trusting Christ all day long but you have to be educated and acquainted with the ways of the Spirit and possess those ways in you to then obey Him as He commands, could you expound any on that?
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You got to know what you're leaning on Christ to get.
Trusting is not the answer in and of itself. What trusting leads you to is.
Trust Christ to lead you to an intimate knowledge of him and his ways. There is no virtue in the trusting itself. The virtue lies in knowing and living in the ways of the Spirit. That is the goal.



Stunnedbygrace said:
Maybe like, how do I become acquainted with the ways of the Spirit?
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Learn what they are. And how they contrast with the deeds of the flesh.

For the Christian with a noble and good heart, power and desire for the ways of God comes with being taught about them.




Stunnedbygrace said:
Lastly, if those churches really are so few, what's your advice on how to find one of those few if it's necessary to find one, while simultaneously it is very hard to find one?
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I don't know.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the only place you may be able to find Spirit-filled and led insightful Bible study and worship and fellowship is in someone's middle of the week Bible study.

Better, but they have limitations.


Running out the door. Talk to you later.
 
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Ralph-

Guest
#479
#479
Avoid churches and studies that emphasize doctrine rather than relationship.

It seems in the church today spirituality and knowing Christ is measured by the accuracy of one's doctrine. Not even remotely true.

Avoid meetings that stress doctrine instead of relationship.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#480
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#480
So for someone like me who has gone to many churches and just immediately knew I needed to leave,(ex: you need to wear a dress if you want to come back, all of the miracles did not literally happen, if you aren't healed it's your own fault for such little faith) and who has not been able to find one, or find a meeting in someones home, what is your advice for how to become acquainted with the Holy Spirit. I mean, I guess the good news is Jesus said when you receive the Holy Spirit He will teach you and you won't have need of any man to teach you and He will guide you into all truth, which is a relief to someone who hasn't yet been able to find a church....so would your advice be to just keep trusting that He said the truth in that and WILL lead me to truth and teach me?
 
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