FROM THE DESK OF......

[Ralph-]

John was telling his disciples that they didn't need the gnostic teachers in their midst teaching them that they needed a secret knowledge to be saved because they already had been taught the correct saving doctrine of Christ and had the anointing of the spirit of truth to walk in it. That whole epistle is a refutation of the gnostic heresy that was threatening to destroy the church with insidious false doctrines. The only way to know a false doctrine is to have the right one. The spirit alone doesn't cut it.

Whether it's the esoteric teachings of Gnosticism, or the works gospel of the Judaizers, or present day Freegrace teachings, the Holy Spirit is how we discern whether or not what we are hearing is the truth or not. This is a feature of the New Covenant prophesied by the Prophets in the old covenant.

This ability has meaning because in the old covenant the people of God were at the mercy of the leadership of Israel to tell them what was true and what was not. In this New Covenant the people of God have the anointing in themselves to tell them if what they are being told is truth or not. We do not need someone to tell us what we are hearing is truth or not. We know that by the Holy Spirit within.


"These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you"-1 John 2:26-27

 

[p_rehbein]

If you mean this..."Obedience to Christ IS ONLY ACHIEVED BY BELIEVING IN HIM! Without belief/faith.......there IS NO OBEDIENCE"..

It (post#322) has nothing to do with the imputed righteousness of Christ. You never once mentioned the free gift of righteousness credited to our account in post #322. It is based on His obedience, not ours. Ours is just the beggar's hand of faith receiving the perfect obedience of Jesus Christ as a free gift.


For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
(Rom 5:19)


.

Sometimes, things go hand in hand without the need to be said.......but, maybe not.....His obedience is the only reason we are afforded the chance to receive the free gift of grace through faith......our faith in Him........our belief in Him.....

For me, they go hand in hand........His righteousness/obedience is the only reason we can become worthy to be called the children of God. The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit affords us the ability to live a live in obedience to Christ/God. Thus, our belief in Him is the only way obedience to Him can be achieved.

To me, these are all understood.....but, maybe not for all......

Everyone knows the Scriptures from Ephesians, Chapter 2, but a whole lot of people cut it off 1 verse too soon in my opinion. Verses 8 and 9 are always quoted, but some folks do not seem to ever include Verse 10.

There is another;

2 Timothy 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Does this free gift of righteousness not come with our salvation?

Thank you for your comments......I always appreciate them.

 

[p_rehbein]

This is a really exceptional thread rehbein! I'm going to rate it with the stars thingy.

The thread has gone good places!

So.............your saying I should have went fishing a couple of days ago?

 

[p_rehbein]

So...I had a few minutes of not being able to get myself under control because I had a vision of rehbein chasing EG with a big fish and everytime he smacked him with it he said, PUT YOUR PANTS ON!

Why on earth would I do that to a fish?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I look at it the other way around. The Spirit let's us know we're listening to the right doctrine.

That is what John is talking about when he says believers have an anointing to know the truth and do not need to be told what is the truth and what is not. They can discern for themselves through the Holy Spirit that what they hear from a teacher is the truth or not. They do not have to rely on someone telling them it's the truth.

I used to look at this in exactly the same way. There is some truth to that view. But that's not what John was talking about.

John was addressing the gnostic heresy. For context I'll demonstrate this with 1 John 2:22-29 (which includes verse 27 which you mentioned)

The gnostics taught that Jesus and Christ were not the same; Christ was an aeon (god) and Jesus was a man. So they denied that Jesus was the Christ (verse 22).

John told his disciples that what they had heard from the beginning (doctrine) remained in them and would keep them in GOD. The gnostic deceivers taught that faith and doctrine were inferior and that a superior knowledge (gnosis) was needed to be saved. But John said, No, you don't need anyone to teach you a superior knowledge because you already have an anointing that will teach you everything so that you can remain in what you have been given (verses 24, 26-27).

The gnostics taught that practicing righteousness was unnecessary to be saved (verse 29).

(1 John 2:22) Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This person is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

(1 John 2:23) Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father [either]; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

(1 John 2:24) [As for] you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

(1 John 2:25) And this is the promise which he himself promised us: eternal life.

(1 John 2:26) These [things] I have written to you concerning the ones who are trying to deceive you.

(1 John 2:27) And [as for] you, the anointing which you received from him remains in you, and you do not have need that anyone teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all [things], and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you reside in him.

(1 John 2:28) ​And now, little children, remain in him, so that whenever he is revealed we may have confidence and not be put to shame before him at his coming.

(1 John 2:29) If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness has been fathered by him.​

 

[p_rehbein]

Hello P_rehbein,



You left out some important contextual information from the scripture above. Here it is in its fullness.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ "

In the scripture above those who say "Lord, Lord" is an example of those who believe themselves to be Christian. But when they find out that they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, their own words reveal why they will not be able to when they will say, "did we not," which demonstrates that instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation, they claimed their own works of prophesying, casting out demons and performing many miracles as the reason as to why they should be able to enter in. The correct answer and attitude should be "Lord, Lord, did you not shed your blood for us?"

Therefore, their not doing the will of the Father, is that they will have trusted in their own works, instead of having faith in Christ.

Thanks, what I have said several times here........but thanks........

The point was to determine what Gods will is...........someone just said to post where someone good works were not Gods will. And, just earlier responded to a post where someone was asked what Gods will that we are suppose to do was, and they responded: believing in Jesus is Gods will........They did not ever mention good works........not once.

Still, the point is to show that God has saved His children for a purpose, and we are to be obedient to Him by doing the good works (whatever they may be).

The dows side folks do not want to talk about is what if a person refuses to do Gods will?

Yes, God can chastise them into obedience........but, then, that shows that God demands obedience, and when I say this, folks kinda get upset with me. The funny part is, at the beginning of the Thread, when I mentioned these "good works," folks all accused me of works salvation, even though I made it clear that good works are a fruit of our salvation, and only His children, prepared by the Holy Spirit can do good works.......

One person demanded to know who ever mentioned OSAS here.......even though their intent all along was to turn this into an OSAS Thread.......I wonder if that person has been reading the last several pages?

too......too...........funny

Thanks though

 

[p_rehbein]

For Crossnote:

I would enjoy your thoughts on these Scriptures....

2 Peter 1:10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11) For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


James 1:22 - But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


John 14:21 - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Romans 2:5) But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7) To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8) But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9) Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10) But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11) For there is no respect of persons with God.

What I am asking is........if I believe these....am I guilty of promoting "works salvation?" Or am I guilty of promoting the need to be obedient to Jesus Christ?

Thank you

 

[p_rehbein]

BTW........there is a reason they call it fishing and not catching........sigh

 

[p_rehbein]

TO THE MEMBERE COMMENTING HERE:

I am glad you enjoyed yourselves while I was gone.......no problems there.

However, I would hope that you would exercise common courtesy and show enough respect for this Thread to start a different Thread if you want to discuss the various aspects of OSAS.

This Thread is about being obedient to Jesus Christ by obeying His Commandments, and doing the "good works" God Himself purposed us to do.

Thank you...........and please enjoy your conversations.....just not here.

God bless

 

[Lafftur]

Three motivators of obedience..........

1) Love
2) Fear
3) Rewards

now, we know WHY God wants us to Love Him, Fear Him and lay up our treasures in Heaven ............. because God desires obedience AND for us to KNOW HIM. I must know God in order to love and fear Him.

 

[p_rehbein]

Thank you for your comment. There may be some who question the "fear" part, because they read it as the negative connotation, and not as Scripture tells us to "fear God."

 

[p_rehbein]

Crossnote:

Here is another I would like you to comment on please.

Romans 6:16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19) I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Thank you

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I look at it the other way around. The Spirit let's us know we're listening to the right doctrine.

That is what John is talking about when he says believers have an anointing to know the truth and do not need to be told what is the truth and what is not. They can discern for themselves through the Holy Spirit that what they hear from a teacher is the truth or not. They do not have to rely on someone telling them it's the truth.


"20Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. 21Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left. "-Isaiah 30:20-21

I see both your point AND HRFTD's point.

I have faced some crunchtime moments where the thought came to mind: well, this is what I say I believe. Then I think about it and realize, I have said this many times, but honestly, I don't believe it and don't do it so I need to dump this...doctrine/belief. (For instance...it is possible to stop believing and trusting and to lose Him. I really don't believe it could happen to me, so why am I trying to convince others of it?)

Then there have been other times where I said, I say this and I really do believe it, so why am I not DOING it? (For instance...I truly believe He will provide enough for me, so why am I worrying about money when I really do believe it?)

It can get so bad and shot all up in your life and circumstances that you have to go over your beliefs/doctrines and check them and either dump them or begin to actually live by them.

 

[p_rehbein]

TO THE MEMBERE COMMENTING HERE:

I am glad you enjoyed yourselves while I was gone.......no problems there.

However, I would hope that you would exercise common courtesy and show enough respect for this Thread to start a different Thread if you want to discuss the various aspects of OSAS.

This Thread is about being obedient to Jesus Christ by obeying His Commandments, and doing the "good works" God Himself purposed us to do.

Thank you...........and please enjoy your conversations.....just not here.

God bless

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Um...I wasnt aware I was talking about OSAS...I was trying to comment about Ralph and HeRose' discussion on doctrine and relationship...I gave examples on my doctrines that I had to dump because I truly didn't believe them and on my doctrines that I truly did believe and had to start living in obedience to...

I don't think you saw the thrust of my post. If I had to do a summation of it, it would be this: doctrine IS important. Examine your belief/doctrine and discard what you really don't believe even though you say you do and start living in obedience to what you DO believe.

 

[p_rehbein]

I did,,,,,,,it wasn't for you........just REFRESHING the post for those who may come in a bit.........

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ooohhhh, okay. Gotcha'. I was perplexed.
I do know what you're talking about by the way.

 

[p_rehbein]

I just want to keep it kinda to the front of the pages so folks actually see it........you guys are having a good talk, did not mean to interrupt it

 

[p_rehbein]

F.Y.I.

securer; securest1a archaic : unwisely free from fear or distrust : overconfident

b : easy in mind : confident
: assured in opinion or expectation : having no doubt

: free from danger: free from risk of lossc : affording safety

• a secure hideaway

d : trustworthy, dependable

• a secure foundation

3: assured 1

• a secure victory

Been saying folks are not understanding the word "secure" in my Title. Maybe this wll help? Big difference there from what has been suggested I meant, right?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Here are the first two things I had major battles over in the obedience of faith.

First was the whole provision thing. The worlds wisdom is that you need to store up more than enough for the day. In fact, the worlds wisdom says you have to store up enough for a few DECADES or you will be eating catfood in your old age.

But God says gather only enough for the day and when I give you rest, I will provide enough for you for two days. (Israel in the wilderness.)

Our IRA's are what we trust in to keep us safe and fed.

This was a struggle for me to have the obedience of trust in what He had said, that these things would be provided for me. It was a years long struggle. If anything could have made me return to the world, it would have been THIS struggle to obey. It was so fierce I can't even convey it to you. All my enemies- my own flesh, the world and its wisdom, and Satan -converged and did everything they could to pull me back from the obedience of trusting all He had said regarding money, provision, not worrying.

Since this is a long post, I won't relate my second major battle in the obedience of faith/trust.