FROM THE DESK OF......

[p_rehbein]

Just F.Y.I.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the...

(excerpt)

Christ;
or "carrying captive the whole understanding"; that is, so illustrating it with divine light, that it clearly sees Christ to be the alone, able, willing, full, and suitable Saviour, and so becomes obedient to him, both as a Saviour and a King; such an enlightened soul looks to him alone for life and salvation, ventures on him, and relies upon him, and is desirous and willing to be saved by him in his own way; he receives and embraces all his truths and doctrines with faith and love, and obeys them from the heart, and cheerfully and willingly submits to all his commands and ordinances; for though he is taken by the grace of God, and all his strong holds, reasonings, and high thoughts are demolished by the power of God in the Gospel, and he himself is carried captive, yet not against, but with his will, to be a voluntary subject of Christ, and cheerfully to submit to the sceptre of his kingdom.

Ephesians 2:10.....Gills Commentary

created in Christ Jesus unto good works;

the work of grace is a creation, or a creature, a new creature; not a new vamp of old Adam's principles, but; an infusion of new ones, and is a work of almighty power; and such who have it wrought in them, are said to be created in Christ; because as soon as a man becomes a new creature, he is openly and visibly in Christ; and by these new principles of grace which are created in him, he is fit and ready, and in a capacity to perform good works; the new man formed in him, is formed for righteousness and true holiness; the internal principle of grace both excites unto, and qualifies for, the performance of righteous and holy actions:

which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them,

or has "before prepared"; for the preparation of good works to be performed by saints, and the preparation of them for the performance of them; are both from the Lord; God has appointed good works to be done by his people and in his word he has declared what they are he would have done; and it is his will not only that they should do them, but continue to do them; not only that they should do a single act or more, but walk in them; their conversation and course of life should be one continued series of good works; but the intention is not that they should be saved by them, but that they should walk in them; and this being the pre-ordination of God, as it shows that predestination is not according to good works, since good works are the fruits and effects of it, so likewise that it is no licentious doctrine; seeing it provides for the performance of good works, as well as secures grace and glory.

Hebrews 5:9 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible


(excerpt)

and those to whom he is the author of salvation, are such as hearken to the voice of his Gospel, and obey hin in his ordinances. Christ is not the author of salvation to all men; all men do not obey him; all those whom Christ saves, he brings them to an obedience to himself; for his obedience for them does not exempt them from obedience to him, though their obedience is no cause of their salvation; Christ himself is the alone author of that.

 

[p_rehbein]

Here are the first two things I had major battles over in the obedience of faith.

First was the whole provision thing. The worlds wisdom is that you need to store up more than enough for the day. In fact, the worlds wisdom says you have to store up enough for a few DECADES or you will be eating catfood in your old age.

But God says gather only enough for the day and when I give you rest, I will provide enough for you for two days. (Israel in the wilderness.)

Our IRA's are what we trust in to keep us safe and fed.

This was a struggle for me to have the obedience of trust in what He had said, that these things would be provided for me. It was a years long struggle. If anything could have made me return to the world, it would have been THIS struggle to obey. It was so fierce I can't even convey it to you. All my enemies- my own flesh, the world and its wisdom, and Satan -converged and did everything they could to pull me back from the obedience of trusting all He had said regarding money, provision, not worrying.

Since this is a long post, I won't relate my second major battle in the obedience of faith/trust.

I know this was meant for the other guys.......but......

I won't give my personal testimony here.......never a good idea to do so on the world wide internet I am told.....

What I will say is that since 2007 God Himself has provided for all my needs, and I sometimes am overwhelmed with wonder by how He worked things out to work to provide for me. When I pause and consider all the little and big things that had to come together to do for me what He has done.....it is amazing........AMAZING GRACE!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Wow, rebhein, that is very good...! His name is Gill? I will have to find some of his writings. That was stupendously good!

 

[p_rehbein]

Wow, rebhein, that is very good...! His name is Gill? I will have to find some of his writings. That was stupendously good!

Funny thing is.......I do not agree with some of his Theology, but I respect his Commentaries and enjoy reading them and use them as a Study Source. John Gill......

Usually you can "search" any Scripture and type in John Gill and get his page to come up

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yeah, well, you will NEVER find a man who you agree with everything on. It's impossible. But I can't even conceive of a man not agreeing with him there, on what you posted.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And no, it wasn't just meant to share with the other guys. You said you wanted the thread to be about obedience, so I contributed my struggle to obey. Its a race of trust so our trust is what will be hit by our enemies over and over again. Our trust is our most precious possession, more precious than gold, so its what our enemies seek to take from us. Beat them with a fish rebhein, they make me so mad that they would try to strip a man of what is most precious.

 

[blue_ladybug]

ROFL @ beat them with a fish...

And no, it wasn't just meant to share with the other guys. You said you wanted the thread to be about obedience, so I contributed my struggle to obey. Its a race of trust so our trust is what will be hit by our enemies over and over again. Our trust is our most precious possession, more precious than gold, so its what our enemies seek to take from us. Beat them with a fish rebhein, they make me so mad that they would try to strip a man of what is most precious.

 

[p_rehbein]

And no, it wasn't just meant to share with the other guys. You said you wanted the thread to be about obedience, so I contributed my struggle to obey. Its a race of trust so our trust is what will be hit by our enemies over and over again. Our trust is our most precious possession, more precious than gold, so its what our enemies seek to take from us. Beat them with a fish rebhein, they make me so mad that they would try to strip a man of what is most precious.

too, too funny.........I also struggle with obedience......or, perfect obedience.......some areas, maybe even most, I do pretty good......but there are a couple where I end up spending lots of time in prayer asking God to please forgive my weaknesses in those areas.........the one you should be familiar with is "love thy enemies........"

The Old Soldier in me simply cringes at that Commandment...........and, wow, do I struggle, and WOW to I have to do a bunch of praying! The other is more personal.......and I wonder about these, and then I remember that The Apostle also struggled and prayed to God to take away his "thorn" and God said no.........grrrr......I mean, ok, thanks Lord.......In our failures/weaknesses is His strength made perfect........or some such.....I see it as....when people see me do something that freaks them out, because they know it is not my normal MO, they know it has to be some other power that did it......and that is God.....or, maybe I got it all wrong......sigh

But my faith and trust rests completely in Him.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Grace, faith and belief in Jesus secures eternity.

Remaining obedient does not..

 

[p_rehbein]

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

too, too funny.........I also struggle with obedience......or, perfect obedience.......some areas, maybe even most, I do pretty good......but there are a couple where I end up spending lots of time in prayer asking God to please forgive my weaknesses in those areas.........the one you should be familiar with is "love thy enemies........"

The Old Soldier in me simply cringes at that Commandment...........and, wow, do I struggle, and WOW to I have to do a bunch of praying! The other is more personal.......and I wonder about these, and then I remember that The Apostle also struggled and prayed to God to take away his "thorn" and God said no.........grrrr......I mean, ok, thanks Lord.......In our failures/weaknesses is His strength made perfect........or some such.....I see it as....when people see me do something that freaks them out, because they know it is not my normal MO, they know it has to be some other power that did it......and that is God.....or, maybe I got it all wrong......sigh

But my faith and trust rests completely in Him.

I see exactly where you are, rebhein. I was there quite recently. The only thing I could do, as I was a seething cauldron of resentments and angers, much more than the average person in my estimation, was to say to Him, well, you see how I am, lord. If its to be fixed, You will have to do it.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

too, too funny.........I also struggle with obedience......or, perfect obedience.......some areas, maybe even most, I do pretty good......but there are a couple where I end up spending lots of time in prayer asking God to please forgive my weaknesses in those areas.........the one you should be familiar with is "love thy enemies........"

The Old Soldier in me simply cringes at that Commandment...........and, wow, do I struggle, and WOW to I have to do a bunch of praying! The other is more personal.......and I wonder about these, and then I remember that The Apostle also struggled and prayed to God to take away his "thorn" and God said no.........grrrr......I mean, ok, thanks Lord.......In our failures/weaknesses is His strength made perfect........or some such.....I see it as....when people see me do something that freaks them out, because they know it is not my normal MO, they know it has to be some other power that did it......and that is God.....or, maybe I got it all wrong......sigh

But my faith and trust rests completely in Him.

I do this paraphrase from memory but I think peter wrote it.
Keep standing firm in your trust and know that your brothers are going through these same trials as you, and after you have struggled in it for a little while, God Himself will strengthen and establish you.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Forgot to hit vote after I gave the thread 5 stars. Fixed it.

 

[oldethennew]

if I were p_Rehbein,

personally I would use my trunk instead of a fish...

 

[pottersclay]

Obedience and trust go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. That is the testamony of faith. It's not a blind Faith that some imagine but a faith that strengthens our trust. If it were not so we would not have the new testament writings. Nor a reason to believe in them.
Think of all the things our brothers and sisters endured to bring us the truth.
The truth has been tried by fire as also the vessels that held it. theology, doctrine, empires, and nation's have come and gone but the truth remains unchanged, like it's giver. A fire ignited by the one that said "did God say"?

 

[Ralph-]

I used to look at this in exactly the same way. There is some truth to that view. But that's not what John was talking about.

John was addressing the gnostic heresy. For context I'll demonstrate this with 1 John 2:22-29 (which includes verse 27 which you mentioned)

The gnostics taught that Jesus and Christ were not the same; Christ was an aeon (god) and Jesus was a man. So they denied that Jesus was the Christ (verse 22).

John told his disciples that what they had heard from the beginning (doctrine) remained in them and would keep them in GOD. The gnostic deceivers taught that faith and doctrine were inferior and that a superior knowledge (gnosis) was needed to be saved. But John said, No, you don't need anyone to teach you a superior knowledge because you already have an anointing that will teach you everything so that you can remain in what you have been given (verses 24, 26-27).

The gnostics taught that practicing righteousness was unnecessary to be saved (verse 29).

(1 John 2:22) Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This person is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

(1 John 2:23) Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father [either]; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

(1 John 2:24) [As for] you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

(1 John 2:25) And this is the promise which he himself promised us: eternal life.

(1 John 2:26) These [things] I have written to you concerning the ones who are trying to deceive you.

(1 John 2:27) And [as for] you, the anointing which you received from him remains in you, and you do not have need that anyone teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all [things], and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you reside in him.

(1 John 2:28) ​And now, little children, remain in him, so that whenever he is revealed we may have confidence and not be put to shame before him at his coming.

(1 John 2:29) If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness has been fathered by him.​

I don't see that we are in disagreement. You have simply detailed the Gnostic argument that John says the Spirit within us tells us is not true. What John said about being able to discern the falseness of the Gnostics applies to being able to discern the falseness of any other false teaching. Having the anointing to be able to discern whether a teaching is true or false doesn't just apply to Gnosticism.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't see that we are in disagreement. You have simply detailed the Gnostic argument that John says the Spirit within us tells us is not true. What John said about being able to discern the falseness of the Gnostics applies to being able to discern the falseness of any other false teaching. Having the anointing to be able to discern whether a teaching is true or false doesn't just apply to Gnosticism.

My point was that you can't do exegesis using verse 27 alone (as I used to do). The full context includes verse 24 (which I used to not pay attention to). John was clear that it's the anointing and the doctrine that is in us that tells us what's true. Can't have one without the other without getting into error. The spirit doesn't work independent of the word.

 

[p_rehbein]

if I were p_Rehbein,

personally I would use my trunk instead of a fish...

funny.......but.......

I still go back to my belief that the misunderstanding of the word "secure" caused all of this. I tried numerous times to explain the connotation of the word I intended to use. That being the feeling of being secure, of knowing we are His children and we will spend eternity with Him.

When God wraps His loving arms around our hearts, do we not feel secure?

When Jesus cleanses us of all sin, and by loving grace makes us worthy to be called a child of God, do we not feel secure in knowing that?

When the Holy Spirit enters our being, that wonderful feeling of a rushing wind throughout our bodies, do we not feel secure?

This is what I meant, and explained many times.........but, it seems people simply wanted to use a different connotation of the word.

Sister Angela used to explain John 3:16....specifically the word "believeth".......as a continuing, never ending belief and not just a one time thing.....and I fully agree with that.

In comparison, when we remain obedient to Christ and His Commandments we can be secure (or if it helps....assured) that He is faithful to do what He said He would do and that is give us eternal life........In this use, it is kinda like a "security blanked" and NOT a way to earn salvation/eternal life.....We show our love for Jesus with our obedience to Him, and He shows His love to us by wrapping His loving and protective arms around us ........ thus we are secure in our eternity.

Time and again I stated that our good works were a FRUIT of our salvation......they are, in fact, a necessary witness to our salvation.......as Jesus explained when He talked about knowing people by their fruits/works. Our God purposed good works are the witness to the Church and the world that we are follower of Christ and He is Lord of our lives.

Still, there has been a lot of confusion and a bunch of other unnecessary junk......and it all pretty much served to completely distort the intent of the Thread.

Eventually, most everyone agreed that obedience was a very important part of a Christians life/walk with Christ, and that is one good thing to come out of all of this. I also believe most agreed that the "good works" God purposed us for were a necessary part of our lives as well, and that is another good thing that came out of all of this.

I do not know how to explain "secure" any better.....dunno.....it is not a work on our part to earn our salvation, nor is obedience......several times I stated that we must be saved before we can even hope to be obedient to Christ, and the Holy Spirit is who makes it possible for us to even begin to be obedient......

In the end......I still know that when I do what God has put on my heart to do.....and do it for His glory, I feel that warm flush of His love within me and that makes me secure in knowing that I am His and my eternity is secure.

Best I can do........

Regarding the other junk:

It seems to be a common practice by some people that when a person posts a Scripture and says what it means to them......if the other person disagrees, they do not do so respectfully. Rather, they post something like...

That is not what that Scripture means....You don't understand Scripture.....

Problem with this is.......first it is a negative post, and actually an attack post. How? Because what that person is really saying is the other person is too stupid to understand Scripture. Anyone want to enjoy that every time they speak about a Scripture?

Second......no person (man or woman) here on earth is the "final authority" on the interpretation of Scripture. All any of us do is offer our opinion of what a particular Scripture means.....that's it!

One person can read a Scripture and it mean a certain thing to them......another person can read the same Scripture and get a different meaning, and sometimes, an entirely different meaning. In truth, neither of them are wrong in their interpretations. The Holy Spirit may impart one meaning to one person and a different meaning to another. He imparts what understanding we need at that time in our life/walk with Christ, and sometimes that is based on the level of our maturity as a Christian. Paul himself said that some are fed with milk while others feast on the meat of Gods word.

So it is an insulting and belittling way to speak to other Christians when a person posts such a comment as YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE......THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SCRIPTURE MEANS!

Why is it not possible for folks to just say "When I read that Scripture, this is what it means to me...." That is respectful, and invites discussion of the Scripture, and allows for both parties to share their understanding and why they see it the way they do?

Why is that such a horrible thing to ask one Christian to treat another Christian in such a way?

Now.....I know that when it happens to me......I really get ticked off, and (while I know better) I give it right back! That is my thorn.......and that is what I have to work on....but, if someone gets in my face and calls me stupid.......well......

There simply is not enough Christian love, respect and fellowship practiced on this Site and that baffles me completely. There are some wonderful, God fearing, loving, tender hearted Christians here, and I love to fellowship with them.......and, then there are some who seem to come to this Site every day intent on finding a fight. Why?

People can disagree, and do so respectfully.......

 

[pottersclay]

funny.......but.......

I still go back to my belief that the misunderstanding of the word "secure" caused all of this. I tried numerous times to explain the connotation of the word I intended to use. That being the feeling of being secure, of knowing we are His children and we will spend eternity with Him.

When God wraps His loving arms around our hearts, do we not feel secure?

When Jesus cleanses us of all sin, and by loving grace makes us worthy to be called a child of God, do we not feel secure in knowing that?

When the Holy Spirit enters our being, that wonderful feeling of a rushing wind throughout our bodies, do we not feel secure?

This is what I meant, and explained many times.........but, it seems people simply wanted to use a different connotation of the word.

Sister Angela used to explain John 3:16....specifically the word "believeth".......as a continuing, never ending belief and not just a one time thing.....and I fully agree with that.

In comparison, when we remain obedient to Christ and His Commandments we can be secure (or if it helps....assured) that He is faithful to do what He said He would do and that is give us eternal life........In this use, it is kinda like a "security blanked" and NOT a way to earn salvation/eternal life.....We show our love for Jesus with our obedience to Him, and He shows His love to us by wrapping His loving and protective arms around us ........ thus we are secure in our eternity.

Time and again I stated that our good works were a FRUIT of our salvation......they are, in fact, a necessary witness to our salvation.......as Jesus explained when He talked about knowing people by their fruits/works. Our God purposed good works are the witness to the Church and the world that we are follower of Christ and He is Lord of our lives.

Still, there has been a lot of confusion and a bunch of other unnecessary junk......and it all pretty much served to completely distort the intent of the Thread.

Eventually, most everyone agreed that obedience was a very important part of a Christians life/walk with Christ, and that is one good thing to come out of all of this. I also believe most agreed that the "good works" God purposed us for were a necessary part of our lives as well, and that is another good thing that came out of all of this.

I do not know how to explain "secure" any better.....dunno.....it is not a work on our part to earn our salvation, nor is obedience......several times I stated that we must be saved before we can even hope to be obedient to Christ, and the Holy Spirit is who makes it possible for us to even begin to be obedient......

In the end......I still know that when I do what God has put on my heart to do.....and do it for His glory, I feel that warm flush of His love within me and that makes me secure in knowing that I am His and my eternity is secure.

Best I can do........

Regarding the other junk:

It seems to be a common practice by some people that when a person posts a Scripture and says what it means to them......if the other person disagrees, they do not do so respectfully. Rather, they post something like...

That is not what that Scripture means....You don't understand Scripture.....

Problem with this is.......first it is a negative post, and actually an attack post. How? Because what that person is really saying is the other person is too stupid to understand Scripture. Anyone want to enjoy that every time they speak about a Scripture?

Second......no person (man or woman) here on earth is the "final authority" on the interpretation of Scripture. All any of us do is offer our opinion of what a particular Scripture means.....that's it!

One person can read a Scripture and it mean a certain thing to them......another person can read the same Scripture and get a different meaning, and sometimes, an entirely different meaning. In truth, neither of them are wrong in their interpretations. The Holy Spirit may impart one meaning to one person and a different meaning to another. He imparts what understanding we need at that time in our life/walk with Christ, and sometimes that is based on the level of our maturity as a Christian. Paul himself said that some are fed with milk while others feast on the meat of Gods word.

So it is an insulting and belittling way to speak to other Christians when a person posts such a comment as YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE......THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SCRIPTURE MEANS!

Why is it not possible for folks to just say "When I read that Scripture, this is what it means to me...." That is respectful, and invites discussion of the Scripture, and allows for both parties to share their understanding and why they see it the way they do?

Why is that such a horrible thing to ask one Christian to treat another Christian in such a way?

Now.....I know that when it happens to me......I really get ticked off, and (while I know better) I give it right back! That is my thorn.......and that is what I have to work on....but, if someone gets in my face and calls me stupid.......well......

There simply is not enough Christian love, respect and fellowship practiced on this Site and that baffles me completely. There are some wonderful, God fearing, loving, tender hearted Christians here, and I love to fellowship with them.......and, then there are some who seem to come to this Site every day intent on finding a fight. Why?

People can disagree, and do so respectfully.......

“But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


Don't think secure was a over statement.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

My point was that you can't do exegesis using verse 27 alone (as I used to do). The full context includes verse 24 (which I used to not pay attention to). John was clear that it's the anointing and the doctrine that is in us that tells us what's true. Can't have one without the other without getting into error. The spirit doesn't work independent of the word.

I would rep you 100's x's for the bold in blue above if I could

the Holy Spirit does NOT work independent of the word

and the word MUST be understood in context


those who take verses out of context and form doctrine(s), those who believe the Holy Spirit works independently of the word and those who believe grace covers anything and everything no matter how far out of context and reality they go with revelations and experiences that are not biblical........

fall into deception of varying degrees because they ignore the safeguards God has built into His word