FROM THE DESK OF......
- Thread starter p_rehbein
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7
as the op already stated, you do not understand the point he has made and is making
nor, apparently, do you understand that the righteousness of Christ is BECAUSE of His OBEDIENCE...
you are not righteous if you thumb your nose at Jesus words...in fact, I would not hesitate to say that if someone disbelieves what Jesus says, there is a chance they may not even actually know Him...or...if having believed in Him to salvation, they received very bad teaching and sadly incorporated it into what they believe
I am speaking generally as your application appears to be general
you are wrong however and confuse the issues because you do not understand the Old Testament as you have proven multiple times on your own op's
nor, apparently, do you understand that the righteousness of Christ is BECAUSE of His OBEDIENCE...
you are not righteous if you thumb your nose at Jesus words...in fact, I would not hesitate to say that if someone disbelieves what Jesus says, there is a chance they may not even actually know Him...or...if having believed in Him to salvation, they received very bad teaching and sadly incorporated it into what they believe
I am speaking generally as your application appears to be general
you are wrong however and confuse the issues because you do not understand the Old Testament as you have proven multiple times on your own op's
Some people are so blinded by their Denominational ideology, they can not see anything that differs from it!
Being obedient, and good works HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH "works salvation." They have to do with what we are Commanded to do.
Matthew 7:16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
[You people are so very sad........]
SO, WHAT ARE THESE THINGS WE ARE TO BE DOING AS CHRISTIANS? WELL, LOOK TO SCRIPTURE!
Matthew 28:[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [SUP] 20) [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
James 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 5:14) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Matthew 25:35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
2 Timothy 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Timothy 3:1) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9) Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10) And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13) For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12:26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30)Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
Acts 20:35 - I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Romans 12:13) Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Romans 15:1) We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2) Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3) For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
THERE IS PLENTY FOR CHRISTIANS TO DO.......SITTING IN THE CORNER HIDING BEHIND "HIS REST" TO KEEP FROM DOING WHAT GOD PURPOSED YOU TO DO IS THE ACT OF COWARDS.
Jesus will vomit you up.......He said so Himself:
Revelation 3:15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
You can mock and belittle/berate me all you want, but when you mock the Word of God......that you will answer for........and some of you here have done exactly that.........you are so very sad
Being obedient, and good works HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH "works salvation." They have to do with what we are Commanded to do.
Matthew 7:16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
[You people are so very sad........]
SO, WHAT ARE THESE THINGS WE ARE TO BE DOING AS CHRISTIANS? WELL, LOOK TO SCRIPTURE!
Matthew 28:[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [SUP] 20) [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
James 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 5:14) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Matthew 25:35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
2 Timothy 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Timothy 3:1) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8) Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9) Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10) And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13) For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12:26) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30)Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
Acts 20:35 - I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
Romans 12:13) Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Romans 15:1) We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. 2) Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3) For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
THERE IS PLENTY FOR CHRISTIANS TO DO.......SITTING IN THE CORNER HIDING BEHIND "HIS REST" TO KEEP FROM DOING WHAT GOD PURPOSED YOU TO DO IS THE ACT OF COWARDS.
Jesus will vomit you up.......He said so Himself:
Revelation 3:15) I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16) So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
You can mock and belittle/berate me all you want, but when you mock the Word of God......that you will answer for........and some of you here have done exactly that.........you are so very sad
E
No my friend you do not understand what gives us assurance
John said what secures our faith. It is the KNOWLEDGE we have eternal life. It is not because we THINK we are obedient.
The author of Hebrews said our faith is in our hope, which is unseen.
and Paul said our hope is the knowledge we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, which God who can not lie, promised before time began.
If my security of where I would spend eternity lacked when I was saved, What kind of faith did I have? I would say my faith was pretty much dead. because I had no faith in the promises of God
Grace gives us assurance, Not obedience.
My obedience is not going to make me feel secure. my assurance in the fact God will keep his promises will make me feel secure.
When I look at God. I see my obedience does not add up. even if I have three great days where I could say I may not have sinned, There is always that day when I have to look at myself and say wow. That did not go well did it. what a bad day. welt I failed. If my security was in my obedience and I was honest with myself. I just lost all hope. Because I could not live up to Gods standard.
So instead of focusing on how good I am, I need to focus on God first, and others second (the greatest commands)
If obedience is required to give us assurance, we are either lying to ourselves as to how sinful we are, or we think we are more righteous than we really are. More importantly, My faith is in my obedience, and not in God. and that to me is no faith at all
John said what secures our faith. It is the KNOWLEDGE we have eternal life. It is not because we THINK we are obedient.
The author of Hebrews said our faith is in our hope, which is unseen.
and Paul said our hope is the knowledge we HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, which God who can not lie, promised before time began.
If my security of where I would spend eternity lacked when I was saved, What kind of faith did I have? I would say my faith was pretty much dead. because I had no faith in the promises of God
Grace gives us assurance, Not obedience.
My obedience is not going to make me feel secure. my assurance in the fact God will keep his promises will make me feel secure.
When I look at God. I see my obedience does not add up. even if I have three great days where I could say I may not have sinned, There is always that day when I have to look at myself and say wow. That did not go well did it. what a bad day. welt I failed. If my security was in my obedience and I was honest with myself. I just lost all hope. Because I could not live up to Gods standard.
So instead of focusing on how good I am, I need to focus on God first, and others second (the greatest commands)
If obedience is required to give us assurance, we are either lying to ourselves as to how sinful we are, or we think we are more righteous than we really are. More importantly, My faith is in my obedience, and not in God. and that to me is no faith at all
E
some people ar so blind as to who and what God is, they do not understand anything about his character, His love, his mercy, his grace or his justice.
Gods justice demands ANYONE who does not live up to his standard must be punished
That punishment is death
His love and His mercy supplied a way, that way is the cross. And john makes it clear. it is THE KNOWLEDGE that we have eternal life which KEEPS US IN FAITH (gives us security) Paul said we have not been given a spirit of fear but a sound mind, and a spirit of adoption whereby we cry out abba father
You can mock and berate people who trust in God all you want, You mock the character of God, you mock the justice of God, you mock the law of god, and more importantly, you mock the FINISHED work of the cross. That you will answer for, and you have done just that, you are so very sad! (2 can play that game)
Gods justice demands ANYONE who does not live up to his standard must be punished
That punishment is death
His love and His mercy supplied a way, that way is the cross. And john makes it clear. it is THE KNOWLEDGE that we have eternal life which KEEPS US IN FAITH (gives us security) Paul said we have not been given a spirit of fear but a sound mind, and a spirit of adoption whereby we cry out abba father
You can mock and berate people who trust in God all you want, You mock the character of God, you mock the justice of God, you mock the law of god, and more importantly, you mock the FINISHED work of the cross. That you will answer for, and you have done just that, you are so very sad! (2 can play that game)
7
oh no
please please please somebody tell me this did not just deteriorate into the usual MISUNDERSTANDING of OBEDIENCE and works of the law
that cannot be honestly answered if indeed, that has just happened
the same people, all the time, objecting by interjecting the law when no law was brought up
no, I'm not going to hang around for the argument...it's useless as almost 3000 pages already attest
I'd like to believe it can be understood, but if the same people keep saying the same things?
it's like nails on a blackboard already
please please please somebody tell me this did not just deteriorate into the usual MISUNDERSTANDING of OBEDIENCE and works of the law
that cannot be honestly answered if indeed, that has just happened
the same people, all the time, objecting by interjecting the law when no law was brought up
no, I'm not going to hang around for the argument...it's useless as almost 3000 pages already attest
I'd like to believe it can be understood, but if the same people keep saying the same things?
it's like nails on a blackboard already
I am going to answer you ONE TIME on this Thread, and any other for that matter, because I do not want you to misunderstand anything.
I AM NOT YOUR FRIEND! Never have been, and never will be. You are a disputationist, nothing more. You belittle, berate, and mock any and all who disagree with your blind spewing of denominational ideology.
You want to say I don't understand? Well, mayhaps you should speak with Christ Himself, for, apparently HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND either........mock me, but let us see you mock Him.
Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Deal with what Christ said. We are purposed by God! Being obedient is required by God! Doing His Will is required by Him!
I AM NOT YOUR FRIEND! Never have been, and never will be. You are a disputationist, nothing more. You belittle, berate, and mock any and all who disagree with your blind spewing of denominational ideology.
You want to say I don't understand? Well, mayhaps you should speak with Christ Himself, for, apparently HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND either........mock me, but let us see you mock Him.
Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Deal with what Christ said. We are purposed by God! Being obedient is required by God! Doing His Will is required by Him!
You are not honest. The OP said nothing about guaranteeing eternity...........
"secures eternity"
Jesus Himself said as much...........How many times do I have to post the Scripture before you guys stop misrepresenting what I said? There is no honesty among you.
Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
"secures eternity"
Jesus Himself said as much...........How many times do I have to post the Scripture before you guys stop misrepresenting what I said? There is no honesty among you.
Matthew 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Hmmm very interesting well I don't think you should be so rude with the whole friend thing just a suggestion but i see the problem and i kinda agree with both of you let me explain: we are saved by grace through faith, and it's made known all over the Bible that no one can be taken from the Father's hand and he'll finish the work he starts in us, all over we read that their faith was counted as their righteousness not they're deeds so obviously we are saved by faith, plus Jesus didn't say to all those people your works have saved you so it's important to look at everything in relation to other passages. Now we also know faith without works is dead, you can't go to Heaven if you don't do the will of the Father which was highlighted in the text you pointed out so how is it both? Cuz God doesn't contradict himself so i offer this as a very likely ( im pretty sure it's true) interpretation ahem: we are saved by grace through faith because of the Jesus sacrifice on the cross when he died for our sins, nothing we do is going to get us heaven, no matter how hard we try we will fail, but with faith and repentance we get saved and gain the Holy Spirit. With the Spirit like Isaiah i think prophesied ( i suck at the actual places where the verses are lol) he said he would write his laws on our hearts and we wouldn't need to be taught and WE WOULD FOLLOW HIM not can or he hopes but we will it's going to happen, its controlled. So by gaining the spirit it leads us in truth and God prepared works for us that we WILL carry out due to the Spirit inside of us so we don't earn salvation by works but it's proof we are truly Christian if we don't have works there's a very good chance we are not really saved, not because we get to heaven by works but because genuine faith and the Spirit of God would grow good fruits and produce works. Hope that makes sense and you guys can get along cx.
Either you are not reading what some here are saying, or you are just doing as they do, and that is paying lip service to "obedience" and "good works."
They have said (again and again) that they have entered into His rest..........all the work has been done........no need for them to do anything..........lip service is what they pay to being obedient to the Commandments of Christ and the Will of God, and to doing what God has purposed them to do........
I do not know you........so, tell me............are you one of them who pay lip service? Or are you one who believes what the Scripture says? Get up, get out, and GET BUSY DOING THE WORK you have been purposed to do!
They have said (again and again) that they have entered into His rest..........all the work has been done........no need for them to do anything..........lip service is what they pay to being obedient to the Commandments of Christ and the Will of God, and to doing what God has purposed them to do........
I do not know you........so, tell me............are you one of them who pay lip service? Or are you one who believes what the Scripture says? Get up, get out, and GET BUSY DOING THE WORK you have been purposed to do!
You are not aware of the "history." "That particular person and I have a 5 year history of his belittling, name calling, berating and mocking. So, rude is relative. And, trust me, his saying "my friend" was not sincere.
As for your comment......I have been saying the same thing since the beginning of this Thread. The disputationists have been misrepresenting my comments in order to avoid having to face up to what Christ has said as recorded in the Scriptures I provided.
Read all of what I have posted, then reread your comment........
As for your comment......I have been saying the same thing since the beginning of this Thread. The disputationists have been misrepresenting my comments in order to avoid having to face up to what Christ has said as recorded in the Scriptures I provided.
Read all of what I have posted, then reread your comment........
Personal attack?
Seems to me you did a fairly good job of that.......so what? Now you are pretending you did not intend for your cute little diddy to be meant for me? Seriously?
You mock, and then cry about a personal attack?
Seriously?
Talk to Christ about it......DEAL with HIS WORDS......and stop pretending the comments I posted are made up or some such. THEY ARE SCRIPTURE.........SO DEAL WITH THEM!
Seems to me you did a fairly good job of that.......so what? Now you are pretending you did not intend for your cute little diddy to be meant for me? Seriously?
You mock, and then cry about a personal attack?
Seriously?
Talk to Christ about it......DEAL with HIS WORDS......and stop pretending the comments I posted are made up or some such. THEY ARE SCRIPTURE.........SO DEAL WITH THEM!