GALATIANS 3:5....BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

Don't confuse righteous behavior with religious behavior. Lots of people in church spend their lives obeying religious rules that don't have anything to do with obeying GOD. The author of the OP, Joseph Prince, muddies the water by conflating the two. He always creates the false dichotomy of law and grace. The law of Moses and grace are not in opposition. It is works of law and grace that are opposed to each other.

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

Yes., exactly! It's so easy for us to switch over on the train track like one of those tiny little clicks that they put a turn in the metal tracks for trains. We're zipping right along and some how we find out we got off track some where. We started off right but the things of the world and the flesh and the devil swooped in and we missed it.

This is what I see is the battle during the every day of life., and learning to tell the differences between walking in the flesh and walking in the spirit. Now I'm not sooooo far down the railroad track before realizing the "click" was made where I started traveling in the flesh. Now there isn't a load of crashed crushed situations., bad choices and people left behind me. I no longer have to be controlled by my blind and foolish flesh but can walk in the power of the Spirit while putting on the new man IN Christ.

That's the only way because my flesh is deceitful and Jesus gave us a new heart and a new mind. But we have to choose to walk in them and grow them; maturing up by faith in the ability and goodness of the Holy Spirit's leading. He will do it. The whole putting off the flesh and putting on the new man is explained out in the Bible. It's not a civil war we are in. Jesus made us new creations so we are not defined anymore by our flesh but by our spirit man.

Another reason why it's so important to know who we are IN Christ. And there is NO condemnation as we are learning how to put off the old and put on the new. The old man is dead and his power is taken. Walking by faith is the new and living way we are called to live. We walk by faith and not by sight. Heb.11:1

Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Some of the verses posted already. HeRoseFromTheDead.,, You don't understand the new birth as I've noticed you posted in the other thread about the seed of God being able to be corrupted by us mere humans. His seed can never be corrupted. We are now new creations IN Christ and we are not condemned any longer. Jesus paid for our sins AND sealed us with His Holy Spirit AND made us new creations IN Him. Born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible.

Your name "herosefromthedead" is what also happened to you when you accepted Jesus as your Savior. You were Born again made brand new. His seed remains in you. You can't take the seed out or corrupt the seed of God.

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

[SUP]Galatians 5:13-

[/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]

22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
[SUP]
23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Perhaps it's you who doesn't understand the new birth. I'd bet you believe that the new birth removed your sin nature completely and made you perfect. How is it then that your perfect, incorruptible self sins?

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 22, 2018

This is outrageous...have you read nothing she's posted?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

In case you're speaking to me, I don't care to read much of what she writes, but I think I've read enough to formulate an opinion about what she believes. She's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

1 John 5:18 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If the new creation in Christ is sinning - then these verses would mean that no Christian is actually born of God ( because everyone sins in some form or other as whatsoever is not of faith is sin) which would account for the heresy that people are not born again until they get a new body.

This also explains why the new birth is a mystery to this belief system - this also explains why the new creation in Christ created in righteousness and holiness is a mystery to this mindset.

This also would explain their need to make themselves righteous by what they do or don't do and thus nullify the truth of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work. Rom 1:16-17 shows that in "the gospel" the righteousness of God is revealed. ( Not our own righteousness )

All sinning is done in the flesh - called the works of the flesh in Gal. 5

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Re: How corrupt is the human heart?

The understanding of the circumcision of Christ where the new creation in Christ is "cut away" from the flesh is a life changing revelation of the wonderful awesome work that our Lord did when we died with Him on the cross and rose again to being a new creation - joined as one spirit with Him for eternity - sealed by the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead.

The truth is that Jesus has already saved us from our sins. If we don't know that - then a lot of the good news of what Jesus did will be a blurr to us.

We will end up searching for sin in our lives constantly and I have news for all of us. There will be sin in our flesh until we get rid of theses bodies.

We will be constantly trying to clean up the flesh but the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is by the Spirit in us.

That is why the circumcision of Christ is imperative to understand in order to grow up in Christ.

Abraham's circumcision was a shadow of being circumcised in Christ now from our flesh. We are cut away from the flesh and our inner man of the new creation - our new spirit created in righteousness and holiness in Christ.
What do we do with the old flesh that is cut away? We throw it out and you can not have it put back on as it is dead. The same goes for our spiritual circumcision in which our flesh is cut away from our inner man - the spirit where Christ dwells.

We are completely sealed by the Holy Spirit within our spirit in our circumcision in Christ.

Understanding spiritual circumcision is important to get a revelation of the new creation in Christ now and to the understanding that our new hearts are pure now because our heart and Christ are one spirit - created in righteousness and holiness - by the incorruptible seed of God which abides forever.

When scriptures talk about the circumcision ( cutting away from) of the heart and of the flesh - it is 2 sides of the same coin.

Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29[/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

These are Bible truths that stand by themselves when we actually see them in the Bible and the Holy Spirit reveals the truth to our born again hearts. I love how the Bible is clear on these matters. And how these things have already been posted before by other believers who saw them and tried to share them.

joaniemarie · Mar 22, 2018

[h=2]

Re: How corrupt is the human heart?[/h]

We are not a new evolution or becoming a new creation. We are a new creation in Christ when we receive Christ. We don't make ourselves a new creation.

We do not create our own righteousness - this is called self-righteousness. We have become the righteousness of God in Christ.

Get this wrong and we create a works-based humanistic mindset that actually denies the very grace of God in our lives that is needed to renew our minds to the realities of Christ that is already in our new heart.

It's the same principle as a baby is not becoming a human and when it grows up it will be then a real human. It's identity when born is that it is already a human. Feed the human what it needs to grow and it will mature to be what is already inside of it. To manifest what it truly is.

This too is how we grow in Christ by grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and beholding the Lord as in a mirror - the Holy Spirit transforms us as we participate with Him in reflecting the life and grace of God towards others. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Re: How corrupt is the human heart?

The understanding of the circumcision of Christ where the new creation in Christ is "cut away" from the flesh is a life changing revelation of the wonderful awesome work that our Lord did when we died with Him on the cross and rose again to being a new creation - joined as one spirit with Him for eternity - sealed by the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead.

The truth is that Jesus has already saved us from our sins. If we don't know that - then a lot of the good news of what Jesus did will be a blurr to us.

We will end up searching for sin in our lives constantly and I have news for all of us. There will be sin in our flesh until we get rid of theses bodies.

We will be constantly trying to clean up the flesh but the only way to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is by the Spirit in us.

That is why the circumcision of Christ is imperative to understand in order to grow up in Christ.

Abraham's circumcision was a shadow of being circumcised in Christ now from our flesh. We are cut away from the flesh and our inner man of the new creation - our new spirit created in righteousness and holiness in Christ.
What do we do with the old flesh that is cut away? We throw it out and you can not have it put back on as it is dead. The same goes for our spiritual circumcision in which our flesh is cut away from our inner man - the spirit where Christ dwells.

We are completely sealed by the Holy Spirit within our spirit in our circumcision in Christ.

Understanding spiritual circumcision is important to get a revelation of the new creation in Christ now and to the understanding that our new hearts are pure now because our heart and Christ are one spirit - created in righteousness and holiness - by the incorruptible seed of God which abides forever.

When scriptures talk about the circumcision ( cutting away from) of the heart and of the flesh - it is 2 sides of the same coin.

Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29[/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11[/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

This is a copy/paste from another person's post, without attribution. Are you unable to speak for yourself?

copied post > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/147698-how-corrupt-human-heart-3.html#post2967226

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 22, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

That's a bit silly brother. Why have a conversation with her or ask her questions if you don't read what she writes? I have a big issue with what she writes on healing but as for works versus trust she has a firm and excellent grasp.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

She started the conversation with me. I'm of a mind that it's polite to respond to people who engage me conversation. My first post on this thread (at least I think it is the first) was a general response to Joseph Prince's theology.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 22, 2018

You have an agenda, not a desire to discuss. You may have the last word now but I'm not going to help you do this to yourself by engaging in conversation with you.

7seasrekeyed · Mar 22, 2018

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I've just been reading this thread

I think that thread properly identifies the problems in this one

I like what you said here from post 41

The author of the OP, Joseph Prince, muddies the water by conflating the two. He always creates the false dichotomy of law and grace. The law of Moses and grace are not in opposition. It is works of law and grace that are opposed to each other.

Angela53510 · Mar 22, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

First, StunnedbyGrace, it is vital to point out how Joanie, claiming to be sin free, is terribly unethical. She has never written an OP in her own words, that I have seen. Every long OP she posts is a copy and paste. Above, she copied and pasted a post from a banned member, too. In the past, she has expressed hope that he would "come back, when he is finished doing whatever he left to do." Say what? He was banned! I don't know the reasons, don't want to know. But, expressing hope he will come back, recopying his posts is unethical. Pretending he wasn't banned is a lie.

The only ethics Joanie Marie seems to understand, like most secular people, is that ethics means doing what justifies the ends. So, if she can copy and paste without acknowledging the source, which is academic suicide. (meaning, if you were in school and were caught copying and pasting without putting the source right under what you have pasted, you would literally be thrown out of school, and find it difficult to get into any other academic institution.)

Further, it is illegal! Even if you get permission from someone to copy and paste their work, you still have to source and reference it. You are stealing someone else's thoughts and writing. So, when you break the laws of the land, especially on such a minor point, which is so easy to fix, you are a lawbreaker.

Finally, Joanie Marie, (despite my evaluation that she is a competent writer when she does write something on her own,) chooses every single thread to not only copy and paste, rather than write things in her own words, but not source it. And to basically rip banned people off for their words.

I have been there and back again with her, trying to convince her to write in her own words, which I know she is able to do. But instead, she lies about the material by omission. In other words, by leaving off the actual writer, she is claiming things to be in her words, and cheating the original author of his due.

So, I choose not to generally read her posts. It is my opinion, that anyone who has to copy and paste everything, plus hide the source, is in a cult. There simply is no other word for it. Cult! Only the Master's words are worthwhile to read. I will give out pamphlets, so everyone hears their gospel. I will quote banned people's posts, instead of thinking for myself, and writing something in my own words.

So, quite simply, Joanie Marie lies and cheats by not acknowledging her sources (I have bought this up over and over, and she never changes with regards to this!). She plays slavish devotion to her Masters, rather than reading the Bible for herself. Her masters have the shining new revelation for today, not the Bible. (Even if they sometimes throw in part of a Bible verse to "prove" their unexegetical and hermeneutically unsound point!)

So, if you want to go on and be inspired by someone unethical, who lies and cheats, and is caught in a cult, EVEN IF SOMETIMES THERE ARE GRAINS OF TRUTH in what they say, that is your right. I for one, have been over and over these cultic leaders' posts, and they are so exegetically and hermeneutically unsound, it is ridiculous. I honestly wonder how these people can keep on posting stuff, lauding themselves, misusing the Bible, and think they have a relationship with God. I honestly wonder how someone can lie, cheat and steal, and think they have a relationship with God.

Maybe we need to think more about Christian ethics and less about tickling ears!

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 22, 2018

As far as I know, the posts of hers that I liked were her own words. And if they weren't her own words, I still agree with them, that they are truth. If the posts I liked are someone elses words and she doesn't give credit, that would be wrong to do. She will have to speak about whether the posts of hers that I liked are plaigiarized or not. I like a post if the truth is being spoken in it.

FlSnookman7 · Mar 22, 2018

We can go back and forth but I think it is safe to say that we all believe that we have been shown the truth and backed it up with the Word. That said I think we can also agree it was God who showed us these truths. If those two statements are true then we need to realize that we will not and indeed do not have the ability to convince each other or change each other's minds.

I know the truth must be defended!!! Wait....I don't remember reading that verse...oh I remember....I must defend God's Word for it to remain effective....no, can't recall that one either. I do seem to remember something about loving each other and uplifting one another.

Angela53510 · Mar 22, 2018

FlSnookman7 said:

I guess you don’t read the Bible much? I”m reading the prophets, and almost half of what they say is about false prophets and teachers, which is where all Joanie’s posts are from. False teachers! And Wikipedia just saved me an hour of work, and since copy and pasting seems to be the fashion de jour of this thread, here is a great exegesis of “itching ears.”

”itching ears is a term used in the Bible to describe individuals who seek out messages and doctrines that condone their own lifestyle, as opposed to adhering to the teachings of the apostles. The term is found only once in the Bible,[SUP][1][/SUP] in 2 Timothy: 2 Timothy (KJV) Chapter 4
[FONT=&quot]
2 Timothy 4:3-4: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)[h=2]

Contents[/h]

[/FONT]
[h=2]
Greek ContextEdit[/h][FONT=&quot]The phrase from which itching ears originates in the original Greek is κνηθόμενοι τὴν ἀκοήν (knēthomenoi tēn akoēn). κνηθόμενοι, the translation for having an itching ear, is a present participle, signifying a present, continual action occurring.[SUP][1][/SUP]
ἀκοήν translates to ear, or a sense of hearing. The use of ἀκοήν is often regarding an inner spiritual hearing. In Romans 10:17, ἀκοὴ (Greek root) is used as the act of hearing, and is describe as an action caused by faith (πίστις).
Paul the Apostle wrote 2 Timothy for Timothy to exhort him during his ministry. Within the context of chapter 4, verse 2, Paul charges Timothy to preach (κήρυξον), be ready (ἐπίστηθι), correct (ἔλεγξον), rebuke (ἐπιτίμησον) and exhort (ἐπιτίμησον).[SUP][2][/SUP] Each charge is an active verb in the aorist imperative tense, which implies that Paul is making a declarative, strong statement to Timothy.
Given this charge, Paul continues in chapter 4 verse 3 by describing a time when people will not listen to sound doctrine. Paul uses the phrase for a time will come (ἔσται) which translates more closely to there will be. ἔσται is a third person indicative verb in the future tense,[SUP][1][/SUP]which signifies a warning for Timothy that the Church of Christ on earth will not change for the better.[SUP][3][/SUP]
[/FONT]
[h=2]
Paul's PurposeEdit[/h][FONT=&quot]Paul describes the future that Timothy will face, where people would not endure sound doctrine, and instead heap to themselves teachersin to satisfy their itching ears. Albert Barnes writes on this subject:
"The apostle here says, that by turning away from Timothy, and from sound instruction, they would not abandon all religious teachers, but would rather increase and multiply them." [SUP][4][/SUP]Paul warns Timothy about a future apostasy in which the lusts of people would drive them away from Apostolic teaching, which Timothy belonged to. Charles Ellicott suggests a motive for doing so:
"These worldly ones to whom St. Paul referred, reluctant to part with the hope Christianity taught, and unwilling to live the life which St. Paul and Timothy insisted upon as necessary to be lived by all those who would share in that glorious hope, sought out for themselves more indulgent teachers, who would flatter and gratify their hearers with novelties in doctrine, and would, at the same time, lay comparatively little stress on the pure and saintly life." [SUP][3][/SUP][/FONT]
[h=2]
Paul's AnalogyEdit[/h][FONT=&quot]Paul uses the analogy of having an itching ear to show that pupils, not the teachers are the ones seeking doctrine aside from Apostolicteaching.[SUP][5][/SUP] Matthew Poole describes the cause and affect of an itching ear:
"their ears itch, and they must have those that will scratch them. The disease of lust in their souls brings forth an itch in their ears, that they will have a mind to hear only such as will by scratching please them." [SUP][6][/SUP]
In chapter 4 verse 4, Paul writes:
2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (KJV)Paul uses the word fables (μύθους), or myths, to describe the remedy that people seek in order to scratch their itching ears.
However, Paul continues to fulfill the analogy in chapter 4 verse 5 by contrasting Timothy's ministry from these fables. Paul calls Timothy to do the work of an evangelist by winning back those who sought fables, through preaching "the great facts of the Gospel placed side by side with the fables of the false teachers." [SUP][3][/SUP]
[/FONT]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itching_ears

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 22, 2018

FlSnookman7 said:

Perhaps this is the word/verse you were thinking of?

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

GALATIANS 3:5....BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

7seasrekeyed

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member