How corrupt is the human heart?

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J

JustWhoIAm

Guest
#41
There are good Christians out there who are secretly terrorists and they love it.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#42
Amen...we are not a "new evolution" - we are a new creation.

We are not trying to create this new creation - it is of God who has already been created us in Christ - but we do grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. This growing in Christ is actually the emerging new man being manifested outwardly as our minds become renewed to the truth of our real identity in Christ.
How do we grow in grace?

Christ died once for all, according to you we died already to sin, we don't die daily & subdue the old man every day, we don't repent anymore, we don't get convicted of sin anymore, we don't confess sin anymore..... so how do we grow/mature?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#43
We're responsible to keep our hearts pure..... It isn't automatic. If it was living the christian life would be a walk in the park.
No, I have to disagree Stephen. Grace posted the right scripture about the mirror. The truth is always in beholding Jesus...we become like Him. He is more real to us than our own self life. Though you might be saying it is a process and to that I agree.

Its like looking at self and seeing Jesus or the value that Father has placed on us through His Son. Its how God the Father does see us or we could not enter heaven.

My mind isn't entirely renewed yet and am sure Grace has areas too that is pointed out to him. By Holy Spirit I mean...not us here. lol

Its HIs work in you, amen? Am sure you believe this.
 

MadebyHim

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2016
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#44
The title of this thread rang a bell to a song can't think of who its by. It goes, i talked to God just the other day, He said stick by Me I'll give you My guiding hand, don't ask Me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to. LoL just thought i'd share.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#45
Nonsense and mis-representation being done as usual and I don't interact with those that continually are deceitful and distort what is being said.

It is a blessing to walk in this truth that Paul said to do to these types that act with this behavior.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#46
Nonsense and mis-representation being done as usual and I don't interact with those that continually are deceitful and distort what is being said.

It is a blessing to walk in this truth that Paul said to do to these types that act with this behavior.

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Who are you talking to? You seem "out there" or something.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#47
No, I have to disagree Stephen. Grace posted the right scripture about the mirror. The truth is always in beholding Jesus...we become like Him. He is more real to us than our own self life. Though you might be saying it is a process and to that I agree.

Its like looking at self and seeing Jesus or the value that Father has placed on us through His Son. Its how God the Father does see us or we could not enter heaven.

My mind isn't entirely renewed yet and am sure Grace has areas too that is pointed out to him. By Holy Spirit I mean...not us here. lol

Its HIs work in you, amen? Am sure you believe this.
So you're saying we don't have to keep our hearts pure?

What exactly are you saying?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#48
No, I have to disagree Stephen. Grace posted the right scripture about the mirror. The truth is always in beholding Jesus...we become like Him. He is more real to us than our own self life. Though you might be saying it is a process and to that I agree.

Its like looking at self and seeing Jesus or the value that Father has placed on us through His Son. Its how God the Father does see us or we could not enter heaven.

My mind isn't entirely renewed yet and am sure Grace has areas too that is pointed out to him. By Holy Spirit I mean...not us here. lol

Its HIs work in you, amen? Am sure you believe this.
Amen....I am constantly repenting as I see new truths of the glorious work that our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us. ( and yes that includes how we view all types of sinning in it's various forms ) I love repenting! it is a blessing from God and it is also granted by God too.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#49
Amen....I am constantly repenting as I see new truths of the glorious work that our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us. ( and yes that includes how we view all types of sinning in it's various forms ) I love repenting! it is a blessing from God and it is also granted by God too.
Are you "changing your mind" repenting, or are you "convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit, feel bad about my sin so I have to repent to get forgiveness" repenting?

Pleeeze be clear.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#50
Even that post Grace about the word repent. I know the scripture says its the goodness of the Lord that causes us to repent.

But, condemnation for my errors still plague me. I hate that thing. But am not down for days about it anymore like it used to be.

One can only love repenting by seeing His goodness.

Yesterday was a real trial for me...not just here but at home. New day..PTL.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#51
An interesting question that just continues from the OP title, and will be relevant is -

Have we still got corruption of nature in this life? (as Christians that is)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#52
So you're saying we don't have to keep our hearts pure?

What exactly are you saying?
I'm saying I believe this...

~2Co 3:17  Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 
2Co 3:18  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 

 
Nov 22, 2015
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#53
Even that post Grace about the word repent. I know the scripture says its the goodness of the Lord that causes us to repent.

But, condemnation for my errors still plague me. I hate that thing. But am not down for days about it anymore like it used to be.

One can only love repenting by seeing His goodness.

Yesterday was a real trial for me...not just here but at home. New day..PTL.
Amen...when we see Christ and our loving Father for who they truly are - things that are contrary to His life fall off us like dead leaves on a tree as we walk by the spirit and the fruit of His life in us in our new creation manifests outwardly to reflect His grace and love in our lives.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#54

Hi Ariel,

You have a couple of great questions, which should make us think and ponder what scripture says on this. I can only give you what I believe scripture says - we have to bare in mind that all major branches of Christianity believe in 'original sin', I have not written out scripture but have given book/chapter for those who wish to have a study themselves.....it will pay of if you do. thats my prayer anyhow.


Q. Was Adam created with a "sin nature" or was sin placed upon him when he disobeyed God?

A. God created all things and said all that he made was good (Gen 1:31). Our first parents (Adam & Eve) were created with original righteousness and communion with God. But through their sin of eating from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil sinned against God. And therefore spiritually died, they died in their sin (Gen 2:17; Eph 2:1). Sin here is not just an outworking or an action based on ones own heart, it is wholly rebellion against God and affects every part of man -spiritually and physically (Gen 6:5; Titus 1:15; Jer 17:9; Rom 3:10 -19).

Adam and Eve were created good and righteous, but because of their sin, we have the Fall (Gen 3). This fall corrupted the 'image of God' in human nature - it has been blurred!). Adam and Eve from this point on had the knowledge of evil, their desires had changed from being righteous and in communion with God, to rebelling against Him in their hearts and minds.
That's the nuts and bolts of your first Question which leads nicely to the next one.


Q. Are we born with sin or does our hearts become corrupt when we fall to temptation and disobey God?


A. Adam and Eve being the 'root' of all humans, through them the guilt of this sin (rebellion/heart) was imputed to all humans (Gen 1:27-28; Gen 2:17-18. cf, Acts 17:26; Rom 5:12-19 and 1 Cor 15:21,22,49. All humans beings descend from Adam and Eve so share in the same death in sin (Eph 2:1) and corrupted nature (Ps 51:5; Gen 5:3; Job 14:4 and 15:14).
From this original corruption (original sin) our hearts are always inclined to evil and opposite to that which is good (Rom 3:10,11,12). See also Gen 6:5, many will try and tell you that this is only relevant from before the flood but carefully note Gen 8:21 after the flood. It is from this original sin (corruption) that proceeds all our actual sins (James 1:14-15; Matt 15:19).

So every sin both original and actual is a transgression against the law of God (1 John 3:4) and this very nature brings guilt on the sinner (Rom 2:15). Which subjects the sinner to the wrath of God (Eph 2:9), the curse of the law (Gal 3:10) and death (Rom 6:23).

"The doctrine of original sin teaches that people sin because we are sinners. It’s not that we are sinners because we sin, but rather, we sin because we are sinners; that is, since the fall of man, we have inherited a corrupted condition of sinfulness. We now have a sin nature. The New Testament says we are under sin; we have a disposition toward wickedness, so that we all do, in fact, commit sins because it is our nature to commit sins. But that’s not the nature that was originally given to us by God. We were originally innocent, but now the race has been plummeted into a state of corruption. (R C Sproul)"


"[so] When we speak of the fall and of original sin, we are not speaking of the first sin committed by Adam and Eve, we are speaking of the radical consequences of that sin, which followed to all future generations of mankind (R C Sproul)."


I have not discussed the good news of salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ as the questions were specific, and also the title of the OP was specific also. If we get this wrong we get salvation wrong. The thought that people are born neither good or evil, or born innocent cannot be found anywhere in scripture this is the view of pelagious and our current culture. As Jonathan Edwards notes if all people were born innocent you would expect atleast or up to 50% to to grow and never sin (RC Sproul quoting Edwards). We all know just by our own experience and looking at the world this is not true.
I am not sure if I am fully convinced. I will have to pray and study for myself. Thank you for your answers.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#55
I am not sure if I am fully convinced. I will have to pray and study for myself. Thank you for your answers.

That's good Ariel. Thats why I added the Scriptures by book/ch/verse rather than type them out so people will go to their bibles and be like a berean and check these things out.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#56
An interesting question that just continues from the OP title, and will be relevant is -

Have we still got corruption of nature in this life? (as Christians that is)
My personal view is that in our spirit, no. But, our soul and body is continually being saved. Soul would be how we think and then act accordingly. Is why it's needful to walk by Spirit...not by what we were...what we are in Jesus. Or in God through Jesus to be more precise.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#57
The answers provided mean we have moved away from total inability.

We have also moved away from imputed righteousness, into walking into righteousness.

These theologically are two massive milestones, that change the view of the reformation
and move us into the holiness movement.

Our kind of issues that we face are responses that in their context are not appropriate
but we need to recognise and deal with in ourselves. They can range from sexual attraction,
anger, hurt, euphoria, depression, all consuming desire for something, a total rejection by someone
we love etc. These are not minor things, but can last months, years, and are difficult to
walk through. As an older man, these are often feelings of youth and aspiration, founding
families, careers, so are not the kind of things we get involved with.

Our choice is to constrain these flows within our relationship with Christ and to know he accepts
us and walks with us in righteousness. That is great glory, and a golden path of life.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,765
6,347
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#58
The answers provided mean we have moved away from total inability.

We have also moved away from imputed righteousness, into walking into righteousness.

These theologically are two massive milestones, that change the view of the reformation
and move us into the holiness movement.

Our kind of issues that we face are responses that in their context are not appropriate
but we need to recognise and deal with in ourselves. They can range from sexual attraction,
anger, hurt, euphoria, depression, all consuming desire for something, a total rejection by someone
we love etc. These are not minor things, but can last months, years, and are difficult to
walk through. As an older man, these are often feelings of youth and aspiration, founding
families, careers, so are not the kind of things we get involved with.

Our choice is to constrain these flows within our relationship with Christ and to know he accepts
us and walks with us in righteousness. That is great glory, and a golden path of life.
total non-sense. self-righteous garbage. Romans 4 completely wrecks this type of thinking.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#59
total non-sense. self-righteous garbage. Romans 4 completely wrecks this type of thinking.
Ok, thanks for your contribution, which is a denial statement.

Romans 4 is the battle between learnt behaviour patterns and the new life born in ones heart.
When we come to faith we are not remade as a whole. Our old self is to be transformed, a
new self established as a child learns how to walk, to talk, to share, to praise, to be with their
loving Father in heaven leading them forward.

Your testimony demonstrates you have not had this experience in your life.
I have, to which I testify.

It was like a glowing warm seed planted in me, and I did not know how it worked or why,
but I knew the things I did, I did without knowing, yet I knew life was in the word of God.
Now I know almost every word and its intent and meaning. That seed has permiated all
aspects of who I am, yet there is still more to learn.

This is the word of God, working in a soul to bring them to maturity in Christ.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,765
6,347
113
#60
Ok, thanks for your contribution, which is a denial statement.

Romans 4 is the battle between learnt behaviour patterns and the new life born in ones heart.
When we come to faith we are not remade as a whole. Our old self is to be transformed, a
new self established as a child learns how to walk, to talk, to share, to praise, to be with their
loving Father in heaven leading them forward.

Your testimony demonstrates you have not had this experience in your life.
I have, to which I testify.

It was like a glowing warm seed planted in me, and I did not know how it worked or why,
but I knew the things I did, I did without knowing, yet I knew life was in the word of God.
Now I know almost every word and its intent and meaning. That seed has permiated all
aspects of who I am, yet there is still more to learn.

This is the word of God, working in a soul to bring them to maturity in Christ.
Romans 4 22-24 talk about imputed righteousness , which you deny. but, since you flatly refuse to apply the Biblical definition of sin, so that you can call yourself clean and pure, the fact that you ignore clear Scripture is not surprising.