Genesis 1

gotime · Jan 4, 2014

Notice also that on the second day God divides the waters.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

notice he did not create water on this day but rather manipulates the existing water. when then was this water created?

Answer:Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

The water was clearly made on the same day that light and the earth was, Day one.

doseofreality · Jan 4, 2014

LovePink said:

Back to original point....there is already disagreement on this thread about whether "heavens"in Gen 1:1 refers to just the sky(atmosphere) or the universe or the spiritual realm or all of the above.

Another problem, If angels and all of the heavenly realm is made on day 1 before God said "Let there be light" then is that light only for our universe or light in general because in Heaven there must be light to see the angels.
Also it is said that "God is light" and Heaven shines with the light of God so why speak light into existence if God in essence already emits light?
Which begs the question...Does God contain photons to be measured?

RedTent · Jan 4, 2014

doseofreality said:

On day one, something was there to begin with. We aren't told what that is, but it was filled with what the Hebrew word calls Choshek. That is the opposite of all that is of God. On the first day God added owr, a Hebrew word. That means everything that is of God. No language has words for owr or choshek, so void is used for coshek, and light is used for owr.

Other than that, we aren't given a description of what God did about creation before the first day. If God would have thought it was important for us to know all this, God would have told us. God thought it was important for us to know that He created us and the earth. It is important for us to know our time is divided into seven days, with the seventh a Sabbath to be devoted to Him, and for us to rest. It is important to know it is a day blessed by God for our benefit.

I have posted the first two verses of scripture, you have bibles to read it.

All this fuss we make about how God created us, the time frame he did it in, how many days, give us an exact accounting of all of it, is not what the creation story that God tells us is all about. It is about God, and how we are to relate to Him.

gotime · Jan 4, 2014

the word heaven must refer to the immediate heaven we see where the sun moon and stars are. how do we know this?

Because the context is clearly relating to this earth and the things of this earth. This earth is connected in its functions to the sun moon and stars.

As seen in prior posts, on the first day God creates the heaven and the earth. There are two heavens mentioned in the creation account.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
there is the heaven which we see formed after God separates the water from the water. we call this our atmosphere.

This is also the heaven in which the birds fly in.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Thus God made this Heaven before he made birds. makes sense that their space was made before they were.

however this can not be the heaven mentioned on the first day because this one is made on the second. so which one is it?

Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

notice that there is another heaven mentioned in creation. this one must be the one mentioned in the first day. this one is where the sun moon and stars are put. we call it today space. no where is the spiritual place of God mentioned thus the heaven here can not be this. also we know from scripture that angels existed before in the spiritual heaven and were there before the earth was created.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

Blessings

doseofreality · Jan 4, 2014

RedTent said:

That is how most Jews read it as well, its just a story not to be taken to literally. The story introduces God and where we came from and our relationship to God as the creator and so forth...

Understanding the details of beginnings for "the heavens and the earth" will involve discovery and observation....science

gotime · Jan 4, 2014

There is a pattern in the creation account.

Day 1 God makes heaven and earth but formless and void.

Day 2 God makes the heavens between the waters

Day 3 God makes the land and plants.

now notice the days next.

Day 4 God makes sun moon stars which go where? in the heaven made on the first day.

Day 5 God makes the birds for the heavens made on the 2nd day and the fish in the waters that were divided on the 2nd day.

Day 6, God creates animals and man who live on the land that God made on the 3rd day.

notice the first three are location and the last three are filling that location.

Blessings.

VCO · Jan 4, 2014

LClark said:

The flaw in ALL Scientific theories of origins, is the ASSUMPTION that everything MUST start at or near ZERO. If there is a CREATOR, which I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE JESUS IS; then NOTHING HAS TO START AT OR NEAR ZERO. IT STARTS WHERE THE FATHER WILLED IT TO START.

That means EVERYTHING, including Caves with 20 ft. CREATED stalactites and stalagmites already in them. Therefore, scientific age dating, CANNOT measure CREATED.

So how do we determine which is TRUE if CREATED cannot be measured scientifically. You'd think GOD would have left us a clue or something? HE DID BETTER THAN THAT, HE GAVE US A DEMONSTRATION ON TWO OCCASIONS OF EXACTLY HOW HE CREATES. Once with 5000 men as witnesses, and a second time with 4000 people as witnesses.

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;. . .

Luke 9:14-17 (ASV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For they were about five thousand men. And he said unto his disciples, Make them sit down in companies, about fifty each.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And they did so, and made them all sit down.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake; and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And they ate, and were all filled: and there was taken up that which remained over to them of broken pieces, twelve baskets.

CREATING MORE, AND MORE, AND MORE FISH AND LOAVES IN THERE ADULT, READY TO EAT, STATE.

Mark 8:6-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So He commanded the multitude to sit down on the ground. And He took the seven loaves and gave thanks, broke them and gave them to His disciples to set before them; and they set them before the multitude.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] They also had a few small fish; and having blessed them, He said to set them also before them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] So they ate and were filled, and they took up seven large baskets of leftover fragments.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Now those who had eaten were about four thousand. And He sent them away,

CREATING MORE, AND MORE, AND MORE FISH AND LOAVES IN THERE ADULT, READY TO EAT, STATE.

Matthew 16:9-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?

So TWO times HE WAS: CREATING MORE, AND MORE, AND MORE FISH AND LOAVES IN THERE ADULT, READY TO EAT, STATE.

Now don't you think there was a bigger reason for repeating that Creation miracle, than just, "people were hungry"?

I BELIEVE it was to ONCE FOR All TIME validate that:
I AM THE CREATOR, AND HERE IS HOW I CREATE, - - - I DO NOT CHANGE!

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.

NOW, if you ran every possible Scientific TEST to age date those FISH and LOAVES that HE created on those two different days, HOW many of those Scientific TESTS would get the Age of those FISH and the ORIGIN of those LOAVES correct? HOW MANY? ZERO, is the correct answer! SO WHY WOULD YOU THINK THE SCIENTIFIC TESTS ON ANYTHING ELSE HE CREATED, BE MORE ACCURATE?

doseofreality · Jan 4, 2014

well that would also explain how the stars in "day 4" were put light years away from earth yet the light reached earth within 1 day.

Your evidence regarding the loaves and fish is hearsay, we can't interview any of the witnesses and unfortunately no other historical record of the event(besides the gospels) was written to collaborate the testimony.
Also no other similar observable evidence of spontaneous creation has been witnessed since to verify the claims.

It could have happened but I don't have good reason to think that it did happen.

VCO · Jan 4, 2014

doseofreality said:

t t t

AND THE TRUTH SHALL DEVOUR THE LIE!

TIME is a Creation of GOD.

VCO · Jan 4, 2014

doseofreality said:

t t t

Like I said, TIME ITSELF, as we know it is SOMETHING HE CREATED. All LIGHT RAYS were CREATED in place.

GOD is not a created being traveling through time as we are, HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME!

You Quote MARK TWAIN, and I will Quote MARK TWAIN and GOD.

“It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it's the parts that I do understand.”

― Mark Twain

Psalm 14:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The fool says in his heart, “God does not exist.” . . .

VCO · Jan 4, 2014

doseofreality said:

There are THREE heavens in the Bible:

The Throne of GOD is in Heaven - - - - That is the THIRD HEAVEN the Eternal Dwelling place of GOD.

The Stars and Galaxies of Heaven - - - That is the Second Heaven the Universe.

The Birds sore in Heaven and the rains fall from Heaven. - - - That is the First Heaven, the Atmosphere.

Don't believe me that GOD says there are THREE Heavens?

2 Corinthians 12:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—

RedTent · Jan 4, 2014

gotime said:

I think you have day one wrong, for on that day on he ADDED to the void the owr, or the essence of God. God does not say he created the "void" on that day. Nor do I understand your point about location.

On the fourth day he made the sun and moon, it had nothing to do with the heavens, it was for us. The first day God gave us spiritual light, the fourth day God gave physical light for us. That is what scripture says, we must go strictly by what scripture plainly says without adding our imaginations to God's words.

RedTent · Jan 4, 2014

VCO said:

This is a profound truth we sometimes forget. With God, time is eternal. God is the I AM. God uses time for us, we think in terms of physical time, God thinks in terms of eternal time. To understand scripture, we must understand this.

just-me · Jan 4, 2014

gotime said:

This is something that I have meditated on for sometime in the past, but not lately. If you look at verse 1, and 2, to me these verses appear to have been before the first day had started. Both Jesus and His Father were there before the world was.

John 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was glorified by God to be the light of the world, and began to create in verse 3 as the light, and so began the first day of creation, being directed by God's will, and desire.

John 8:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Colossians 1:12-17 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

LClark · Jan 4, 2014

Laodicea said:

I am sorry to say that it is you who is dancing around the subject. The text is clear (men's imaginations get in the way) the earth was created in verse one, we are told the state of the earth in verse 2, and in verse 3, God' provides light for the "darkness" that was then on the earth as noted in verse 2.

Laodicea · Jan 4, 2014

LClark said:

Other verses in the Bible do not agree with what you say. Exodus 20 for example says God made everything in the earth in 6 days.

Exodus 31:17 KJV
(17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

LClark · Jan 4, 2014

Exodus 20;11 parallels the six days of Genesis 1 in which the empty, dark earth of verse 2 is set in order for the creation of man.

The Earth
Three conditions of the earth are described in v.2, the last being ‘darkness’ for which God provides the remedy in v. 3, “Let there be light…”
And in the following verses he provides the remedies for the other two conditions.
There is a wonderful symmetry here: Days one to three have been called, “Days of Preparation” and the last three, “Days of Filling” or from the general to the particular . e.g. day one has ‘light’ ; day four has lights (sun/moon/stars) set in order. Day two has sky and day five has birds of the sky, etc.
In these verses “heaven” and “earth” are used in a limited sense. “The dry land he called earth” [not the planet]. The heavens, here, as the NIV translates it, is our “sky.”
Days
Day One and the days that follow are the week in which God sets his creation in order for the creation of man.
“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day” Exodus 20:11.
This verse is often wrongly used. Here, speaking of that week, “the LORD made” not created as in Gen. 1:1. “Made” has the same connotation as our “making” our bed. We set in order what is already there. [In this case, the remedy for the messy conditions described in verse 2.]
Thus, this verse [Exodus 20:11] is parallel with what we read of the “days” of the week as described: …heavens, earth, sea, and all that is in them [the exact things named in the days of the week], NOT with the universe, the “heavens and earth,” of Genesis 1:1 [It does not reflect on the creation of the universe but on preparing “earth” for man; setting in order the earth that is dark and empty].

just-me · Jan 4, 2014

This is very interesting. Knowing Jesus is the light on day one, we see the sun being created to give light on day four. I'd like to hear from you all (ya'll) about that, and also why the water covered the earth from the beginning. Why water??

Could that possibly symbolize that at the beginning everything was perfectly pure?

Laodicea · Jan 4, 2014

LClark Have you got nothing of your own? You have to get your info from websites? Doctrine is not based on one text alone but all texts on a subject put together. Do you have other verses in the Bible to support your theory?

dcontroversal · Jan 4, 2014

RedTent said:

Some interesting points concerning creation .
1. The (deep) waters was already here
2. Darkness was ALREADY here
3. The temptation of Eve by the serpent (Satan) had already fallen (like lightning from heaven) before creation as Eve is
tempted almost immediately.

Just a few things to ponder...

Genesis 1

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