God or Guns?
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C
1still_waters makes a great point. To elaborate further if we fall under this principal of protection and stand on a rail Road Track then the breast plate should stop the Train than commeth. God never removed any options of weaponry. If fact, by the principals mentioned above David was wrong to pick up the staones and use the sling. Samson was wrong to use the Jaw Bone of a Donkey to kill thousands, and Joshua should have not blown the Trumpets at Jerico. Weapons are used repeatedly throughout scripture. Weapons are not the problem people are the problem.
1
That's a good starting point.
What are the implications and applications of this verse?
No locking of doors because you're trusting God?
No calling of the cops in the middle of the night when you hear that noise in the house downstairs and you know for sure your kids are sound asleep in their beds, because you're trusting God?
No possession of a weapon to defend your family, because you're trusting God?
It's great to quote scriptures. But it's also informative to know how to apply said scriptures.
How do you apply these verses?
What are the implications and applications of this verse?
No locking of doors because you're trusting God?
No calling of the cops in the middle of the night when you hear that noise in the house downstairs and you know for sure your kids are sound asleep in their beds, because you're trusting God?
No possession of a weapon to defend your family, because you're trusting God?
It's great to quote scriptures. But it's also informative to know how to apply said scriptures.
How do you apply these verses?
S
I have no idea why not locking doors, not calling cops, and bumps in the night got thrown into this. Since when has it become so frowned upon to trust God to defend you? What happened to Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo when they were thrown into the furnace? Do you think they fought Nebuchanezzars mighty men? I don't, I believe they trusted God and because of that, no hurt came upon them.
1
Because I want to know why people draw the lines where they do.
People will say, "Hey I trust God to protect me, so I don't need a gun."
Yet some of the same people, who say they trust God to protect them, will call the police when they hear that noise in the night, will lock their doors, and the like.
Why don't they "trust God to protect them" when they hear that noise in the night, or when it comes to locking the door? Why do they trust God to protect them when it comes to not owning a gun?
These issues are germane, because if one claims to be "trusting God" then we should be able to see if they're following that same standard in all situations. And if they aren't, then why?
For one, maybe I need to change my opinion on things. But I can't if someone won't tell me why they draw the line where they do. I can't change my view on stuff, if folks won't share. So I press hard on this issue, cuz I want to know why folks reason the way they do. Maybe MY reasoning is wrong in this matter.
People will say, "Hey I trust God to protect me, so I don't need a gun."
Yet some of the same people, who say they trust God to protect them, will call the police when they hear that noise in the night, will lock their doors, and the like.
Why don't they "trust God to protect them" when they hear that noise in the night, or when it comes to locking the door? Why do they trust God to protect them when it comes to not owning a gun?
These issues are germane, because if one claims to be "trusting God" then we should be able to see if they're following that same standard in all situations. And if they aren't, then why?
For one, maybe I need to change my opinion on things. But I can't if someone won't tell me why they draw the line where they do. I can't change my view on stuff, if folks won't share. So I press hard on this issue, cuz I want to know why folks reason the way they do. Maybe MY reasoning is wrong in this matter.
2 things I would like to say concerning this thread:
1. Never trust when the govt. wants tight gun control over the nation.... Red lights ought to be going off in our heads when that happens.
2. "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". This is bigger than some people's thinking. The "outlaws" I'm talking about would include FEMA.
1. Never trust when the govt. wants tight gun control over the nation.... Red lights ought to be going off in our heads when that happens.
2. "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". This is bigger than some people's thinking. The "outlaws" I'm talking about would include FEMA.
S
I am not trying to change anybody's personal opinion here. I am not against people owning guns, for protection or recreation. I am not saying those who own guns for protection do not have faith in God. I joined in this thread in defense of my dad who I felt was wrongly accused of not protecting his family.
Maybe my reasoning all boils down to the way I was raised, or life experiences that I have been through or just a personal conviction.
Maybe my reasoning all boils down to the way I was raised, or life experiences that I have been through or just a personal conviction.
G
"Just one word..."
BALANCE
I believe God wants us to look to Him to provide the things we need - including protection. However, I also believe He wants us to utilize "our God-given brains" and experience in a way that would seem to follow this adage:
"God helps those who help themselves."
For us to tell God (as it were) - "I am not going to lift a finger to help myself, but I expect you to provide all that I need..." - would be foolish.
God expects us to do what we can - and then - leave the rest to Him.
(I also believe that there are "highly-specific" exceptions to this.)
On the other hand, it very well may be that God will and does honor those who have sufficient faith to "totally trust Him" with the bestowing of "extra-special" protection, etc...
However, we also know that God has set the framework of this reality that we live in - such that - He allows things to happen based on the "collective will" of us human beings...
For those who trust God [enough] to protect them - but do not trust themselves [enough] to feel completely confident that they will not "miss" that all-important "message from God" warning them about approaching danger and what they should do to avoid it...
Guns become the "backup plan"...
.
BALANCE
I believe God wants us to look to Him to provide the things we need - including protection. However, I also believe He wants us to utilize "our God-given brains" and experience in a way that would seem to follow this adage:
"God helps those who help themselves."
For us to tell God (as it were) - "I am not going to lift a finger to help myself, but I expect you to provide all that I need..." - would be foolish.
God expects us to do what we can - and then - leave the rest to Him.
(I also believe that there are "highly-specific" exceptions to this.)
On the other hand, it very well may be that God will and does honor those who have sufficient faith to "totally trust Him" with the bestowing of "extra-special" protection, etc...
However, we also know that God has set the framework of this reality that we live in - such that - He allows things to happen based on the "collective will" of us human beings...
For those who trust God [enough] to protect them - but do not trust themselves [enough] to feel completely confident that they will not "miss" that all-important "message from God" warning them about approaching danger and what they should do to avoid it...
Guns become the "backup plan"...
.
Romans 12
Pray for strength not to take up arms when the hour come.
What are you prolonging your life for by taking up arms?
Trust in the Almighty he will bring much to pass on those in evil Rebellion.
We are children of Peace.
If we are killed it be for his Glory if we we abide let it be for His Glory.
It is better to be killed than to kill.
Pray for strength not to take up arms when the hour come.
What are you prolonging your life for by taking up arms?
Trust in the Almighty he will bring much to pass on those in evil Rebellion.
We are children of Peace.
If we are killed it be for his Glory if we we abide let it be for His Glory.
It is better to be killed than to kill.
The people that will die defending their right to own a gun are being provoked.
I consider that the type of people that will resist any gun ban law will actually help it become a law by taking the bait they have had swung in front of them by those that act like they are with them and yet are provoking them to react.
Many people now have the idea that the "american's" have an unhealthy obsession with guns and the government is only trying to prevent any more deaths..... young children being shot in their school really does touch most people indeed.
Many will call for the ban to prevent this happening again.
enough is enough people say...
Yet is the government genuinely trying to prevent this or is it a covert for something else?
Many are calling the sandy hook a hoax created to win public support.
People reject much and call people crazy and either way i know not what did or did not happen.
Even the information going around one must not adhere to.
It is a dark world and if the choice be: kill or be killed then resist not with force.
If it is the Almighty's will for you to abide then nothing is impossible.
I consider that the type of people that will resist any gun ban law will actually help it become a law by taking the bait they have had swung in front of them by those that act like they are with them and yet are provoking them to react.
Many people now have the idea that the "american's" have an unhealthy obsession with guns and the government is only trying to prevent any more deaths..... young children being shot in their school really does touch most people indeed.
Many will call for the ban to prevent this happening again.
enough is enough people say...
Yet is the government genuinely trying to prevent this or is it a covert for something else?
Many are calling the sandy hook a hoax created to win public support.
People reject much and call people crazy and either way i know not what did or did not happen.
Even the information going around one must not adhere to.
It is a dark world and if the choice be: kill or be killed then resist not with force.
If it is the Almighty's will for you to abide then nothing is impossible.
Here's story about someone who put his 'trustin God':
There was a man lived down in a swamp and one day they forecast a hurricane and evacuated the town. A bus pulls up in front of the man's house and they yell "get in there's a hurricane comin' and we're leaving town!" The man waves them on, saying go ahead God will save me. So the storm surge hits and he's up to his knees in water and a boat comes by, again "get in we're leaving!" And again the man says go ahead, God will save me. So now the hurricane's hitting town and the man's up on his roof to avoid the flood and a helicopter comes over and says "last chance, grab the hoist let's go!". But again the man waves them on. "God will save me". Then the storm hits, the man is blown from his roof and he drowns.
Standing before God the man asks, "why didn't you save me?"
To which God answered, "I sent you a bus, a boat, and a helicopter, what more was I supposed to do?"
Not everyone should have a gun, those who do should stay currently trained. But it's funny how often people put blind faith in God to get them thru something when all the time He's telling us to prepare for it.
There was a man lived down in a swamp and one day they forecast a hurricane and evacuated the town. A bus pulls up in front of the man's house and they yell "get in there's a hurricane comin' and we're leaving town!" The man waves them on, saying go ahead God will save me. So the storm surge hits and he's up to his knees in water and a boat comes by, again "get in we're leaving!" And again the man says go ahead, God will save me. So now the hurricane's hitting town and the man's up on his roof to avoid the flood and a helicopter comes over and says "last chance, grab the hoist let's go!". But again the man waves them on. "God will save me". Then the storm hits, the man is blown from his roof and he drowns.
Standing before God the man asks, "why didn't you save me?"
To which God answered, "I sent you a bus, a boat, and a helicopter, what more was I supposed to do?"
Not everyone should have a gun, those who do should stay currently trained. But it's funny how often people put blind faith in God to get them thru something when all the time He's telling us to prepare for it.
Listen, America was founded by people who were being killed for their faith in Jesus in their homeland.
They suffered the ship ride to the newland to have a chance at following God.
They fought Kings, they fought savages, they fought pestilence, they fought famine, they withstood the cruel trials
of weather and disease on tempestuous seas just to have a chance,.......just ONE chance, to live for God and not be imprisoned for it.
They took on the uncertain wages of an hard existence to realize their vision of a place for them to worship Jesus and God the Father
in Spirit and in truth by the Holy Spirit's unction.
This was how America was founded.
These types of folks were not soft and sweet,.......they were bitter and hard for their faith in the God of the Bible.
(This is why the post millenial view was so widespread in the colonies, because those puritans thought they were doing it! - Ushering in the kingdom of God.)
It's not God or guns,....not in America.
It's God's people defended by guns.
Defended against tyrants, defended against savages, defended against all who would take their right to faith in the God of the Bible away.
And subject them again to the tower of London, or being burned at the stake, or being drawn and quartered for their faith.
No.
Not here.
We fought for our faith once, and if need be we will fight for it again.
- - - - - There are worse things to die from than fighting for your faith.
"No King but Jesus" was the battle cry of the American revolution.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
They suffered the ship ride to the newland to have a chance at following God.
They fought Kings, they fought savages, they fought pestilence, they fought famine, they withstood the cruel trials
of weather and disease on tempestuous seas just to have a chance,.......just ONE chance, to live for God and not be imprisoned for it.
They took on the uncertain wages of an hard existence to realize their vision of a place for them to worship Jesus and God the Father
in Spirit and in truth by the Holy Spirit's unction.
This was how America was founded.
These types of folks were not soft and sweet,.......they were bitter and hard for their faith in the God of the Bible.
(This is why the post millenial view was so widespread in the colonies, because those puritans thought they were doing it! - Ushering in the kingdom of God.)
It's not God or guns,....not in America.
It's God's people defended by guns.
Defended against tyrants, defended against savages, defended against all who would take their right to faith in the God of the Bible away.
And subject them again to the tower of London, or being burned at the stake, or being drawn and quartered for their faith.
No.
Not here.
We fought for our faith once, and if need be we will fight for it again.
- - - - - There are worse things to die from than fighting for your faith.
"No King but Jesus" was the battle cry of the American revolution.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Look at the outcome of your independence?
self and greed...
Same as all of this world.
We are an ungrateful and selfish people.
Even so our Heavenly Father still wants to redeem us through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.
It is not about a prosperous life here it is about inheriting eternal life.
All will come to pass for the Harvest.
The reapers will do the work.
Let us pray we remain patient and Faithful until the end when or how that may come we know not.
Do not act on Fear.
self and greed...
Same as all of this world.
We are an ungrateful and selfish people.
Even so our Heavenly Father still wants to redeem us through Faith in Yahshua the Messiah.
It is not about a prosperous life here it is about inheriting eternal life.
All will come to pass for the Harvest.
The reapers will do the work.
Let us pray we remain patient and Faithful until the end when or how that may come we know not.
Do not act on Fear.