Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

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Mar 12, 2014
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I agree; it is the Christians that are grafted into Israel. Israel is still God's chosen, and He has not forgotten them or given up on them. They are coming back to the land God promised them, scripture is being fulfilled.

Yes, as long as it is understood grafted into Israel the church NOT Israel the nation. Those Jews in Acts 2 that obeyed the gospel were grafted, added to the church, saved verse 47.

The nation of Israel lost the land due to their disobedience and God has not promised them any more land in the future.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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Ok if thats my interpretation can you give me yours? Has God taken His hand off Israel? Has the church replaced Israel.I dont believe these doctrines myself.But sometimes its hard to be clear on what people believe.Thanks
What do you mean by "Israel?" I don't think the modern nation-state of Israel established back in 1948 has anything to do with biblical Israel, for reasons outlined in my last post. The only connection would be that some of it's population claim descent from ancestors who were citizens of biblical Israel.

If we're talking about Israel as in, the Israel that is actually God's chosen people; then I think Israel exists and has a king and high priest. Yes, Israel was a originally a group of loosely associated tribes claiming descent from Abraham and/or fidelity to Yahweh and his anointed one(s). Before I get long winded, I think Jesus is rightfully the King of Israel, and citizenship in the correct continuation of biblical Israel is defined by those who are loyal to it's Messiah. Even calling Jesus "Messiah" or "Christ" doesn't make biblical or historical sense unless he's the King of Israel - and I don't think the modern state of Israel has recognized Jesus as their king.....unless I missed some breaking news.

Membership in Israel is not limited by those who claim blood descent from Abraham (and it never really was anyway). The blessings promised to Abraham and his descendants are realized in Jesus.

But this is what I think. I suppose I won't argue too much if you believe that there is another group of Yahweh's chosen people (which necessarily implies another king, high priest, sacrificial system, etc..) defined by something other than loyalty to the Messiah Jesus. The Samaritans think this and Jews think this. I would ask why even call Jesus the Christ and believe the NT if you don't think he's actually the living king of actual Israel...it would seem to be a major inconsistency.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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SeaBass

The following scriptures might help you understand why the Lord still preserves Israel as a national people, and will continue

He does not do this for their sakes, but for His own purposes .... His explanation is quite clear


Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

God cast off fleshly Israel Rom 11:15-25. If Jews are to be saved then they must obey the gospel, submit to the rigtheousness of God, Rom 10:3.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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No it was not, Gen 12, 15 and 17.

Them living in the land was conditional (lev 26) but it belonging to them was never conditional.

Joshua 23:14-16 plainly tells me the land covenant was conditional. Israel could not disobey AND keep the land..not going to happen and they lost the land due to their disobedience.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
John 1:11-13 clearly shows that God's people are no longer so by physical means. If you are born physically Jewish you have to be baptized into Christ just like the rest of us. God's people are no longer physical Israel, but spiritual Israel. Galatians 3:28 says it doesn't matter what you are physically- whether you are male or female, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, God's people are those who are in Christ. And Romans 6:3 says the way we get into Christ is by baptism. It no longer matters what you are physically.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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My comment

The day is coming when a portion of Israel will discover the truth about their Messiah and King

This will happen during the coming tribulation

Israel is still in blindness today and only the Lord is able to make this evaluation by knowing all things and that the majority of Israel have and will stay in this condition willfully .... since He knows this in advance, he can pass judment

Here are helpful scriptures to know with regard for the believing remnant that will emerge [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Zechariah 13:8-9; Matthew 24:15-15; 24:29-31; Romans 11; Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7]

Notice that not all of Israel will do this at the time .... 2/3 will remain in blindness, will be killed, and lost forever ... but 1/3 will turn to the Lord, survive the coming time of Jacob's trouble, and enter His millennial kingdom upon the earth as mortals and populate the kingdom [Acts 1:6]

The professing church has not become national Israel as many have been taught .... a very different set of believers
 
Mar 12, 2014
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And why did they not believe?


Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 Just as it is written: "GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES THAT THEY SHOULD NOT SEE AND EARS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HEAR, TO THIS VERY DAY."

God has blinded them.

How does God blind people? Does God blind people against their will forcing them to be lost? No, that goes against His nature. God blinded them by giving them commands, gospel of Christ they did not want to keep so they closed their own eyes and ears, Acts 28:27. But since God gave them the commands/laws that is why God is said to have blinded them. God did not give them what they wanted so they closed their own eyes and ears.

They were blinded/hardened in the same sense as Pharaoh. God created the circumstance by putting Pharaoh in a position to have to obey. Pharaoh chose of his own will to hardened his own heart and not obey but since God created the circumstance God is said to have hardened his heart. Remember. there was a remnant that was not blinded but they of their own will accepted the gospel in Acts 2 while the majority rejected it of their own will. So in that sense God ALLOWED them to reject Him and blind themselves.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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no it does not, because the context of ROM 11 is gentile (believing or not) and Isreal (believing or not) And these same people (Israel) were considered our enemy because of the gospel.

do you ever read things to get context, or just make up your own opinion from a few verses?
Rom 11:15-25 plainly says fleshly Israel was cast off.They would then have to obey the gospel, as the Gentiles, to be grafted back in with the Christian Gentiles and Jews that obeyed in Acts 2.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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SeaBass

The Lord can keep His truth from anyone and for a good reason

.... He already knows beforehand that one will never turn to Him in the first place

He knows in advance about the choices that one will make

He is totally just and commits no error with His decisions
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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are you serious. the whole book of hebrews proves you wrong. They were saved the same way we are. the law never saved ANYONE.
OBEDIENCE saved those under the OT and OBEDIENCE is how people are saved under the NT. Just because God chose Israel to bring the Messiah into the world, they still had to obey God to be saved. Rom 11:3.4 who was God's chosen people in the OT times? Those that OBEYED Him. The same is true with the NT, Heb 5:9
 
Mar 12, 2014
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John 1:11-13 clearly shows that God's people are no longer so by physical means. If you are born physically Jewish you have to be baptized into Christ just like the rest of us. God's people are no longer physical Israel, but spiritual Israel. Galatians 3:28 says it doesn't matter what you are physically- whether you are male or female, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, God's people are those who are in Christ. And Romans 6:3 says the way we get into Christ is by baptism. It no longer matters what you are physically.
How can anyone today know with any certainty they are a physical Jew? To be a true Jew, one MUST be a direct descendant from one of the 12 tribes. Can anyone today prove they are from one of the 12 tribes?
 
Nov 3, 2014
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SeaBass

It is all about the Lord preserving a national people for His purposes

And He knows all things about every human

.... and the future believing remnant will also know what the Lord is doing and who they are
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
SeaBass

It is all about the Lord preserving a national people for His purposes

And He knows all things about every human

.... and the future believing remnant will also know what the Lord is doing and who they are
There is a common Antisemitic argument the Jews today aren't real Jews, just utterly foolish on its surface. Many families of Israel have been Jewish since before Christ, generation after generation, as far as they can trace back have been Jewish. They are Jews, from a long line of Jews, simple as that, many very careful to preserve their heritage. A converted Jew is a Jew, simple as that. And, as you point out, our Lord knows where all the tribes are, in His word has explicit plans for 144,000 of these. This, like replacement theology, is just more Antisemitic rubbish which is epidemic these days, like another rise of Hitler, only proving how little hateful, bigoted men can learn. (Anybody who could sit down with Hitler or the devil and be agreeable has a real problem.)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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".... because of unbelief they were broken off...."

If the fleshly Jews had continued to believe God and obeyed and kept the law they would have believed Christ and obeyed Him when he came, but they did not and were broken off.

As Paul says in Rom 10:3 the Jews were lost for they would not submit/obey the righteousness/commandments of God.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
Your premise contains a contradiction. If they had believed God then they would not have rejected their Messiah when He came.
I think you need to think over your original statement.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I was pointing out that even though the land promise was said to be "everlasting" is was still conditional. Israel disobeyed God and lost the land.

There is no nation of Israel now as in the bible for that nation is gone for ever. In Mt 21:43-46 Jesus was speaking to the Jews (verse 45) saying those Jews that rejected Him would be ground as powder, scattered as dust in the wind. Jer 19:11 it was prophesied the people and cities of Israel would be broken as a potter's vessel and cannot be made whole again. Every person must accept Christ in this life or be lost, no second chances,no future dispensations where one can be saved.
wasting my time. Of course faith in the Messiah is required, that does not mean the land promises are void to those Jews who before and after the Church had faith in the promises.

Romans 11:28-29
28 In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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SeaBass

Be aware that the Lord does keep His promises without fail

Those who do not turn to Him of Israel will end up here just like any Gentile who refuses [Revelation 20:11-15]

Be glad that He can be trusted ... if not, He could arbitrarily withdraw His promise of salvation to us

None of us deserve .... and have been just as intransigent as Israel
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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John 1:11-13 clearly shows that God's people are no longer so by physical means. If you are born physically Jewish you have to be baptized into Christ just like the rest of us. God's people are no longer physical Israel, but spiritual Israel. Galatians 3:28 says it doesn't matter what you are physically- whether you are male or female, Jew or Gentile, slave or free, God's people are those who are in Christ. And Romans 6:3 says the way we get into Christ is by baptism. It no longer matters what you are physically.
Ephesians 3:2-6
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


You're speaking of the church, the Body of Christ a mystery revealed through the apostles and NT prophets.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God cast off fleshly Israel Rom 11:15-25. If Jews are to be saved then they must obey the gospel, submit to the rigtheousness of God, Rom 10:3.
thats the point you do not Get.

Rom 11 says they (as a nation) will do that very thing.

You think we are teaching God will return them in a state of unbelief and sin? lol maybe you should try listening instead of assuming.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
OBEDIENCE saved those under the OT and OBEDIENCE is how people are saved under the NT. Just because God chose Israel to bring the Messiah into the world, they still had to obey God to be saved. Rom 11:3.4 who was God's chosen people in the OT times? Those that OBEYED Him. The same is true with the NT, Heb 5:9

Obedience is law.

We are not under law, but grace.

You can not be obedient enough to be saved, No matter how good you are, the law will condemn you,

come out from under the law and chose Christ. You still have not heeded the schoolmaster.