GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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Jun 5, 2017
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GOD'S LAW (TORAH) IN GENESIS AND THE SABBATH

Gen 26:5
Because Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong LAWS - H8451; תּורה תּרה; tôrâh tôrâh; to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Abraham kept God's TORAH which includes God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the sacrificial laws for remission of SIN and SIN offerings.

Genesis 22
6,
And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it on Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
7, And Isaac spoke to Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13, And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns:and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Burnt offereings were made for remission of SIN. What is SIN? Sin is disobedience to God's WORD and includes breaking God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11; 1 John 3:4). It is God's WORD and his LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN (Romans 3:20)

Romans 3
19,
Now we know that what things soever the law said, it said to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

NOW if GOD tells us that Abraham kept his TORAH (LAWS) then is God's 4th Commandment not part of the TORAH?

Indeed it is. Where does it say in God's WORD that Abraham or any of God's people before MOSES did NOT Keep God's Sabbath?

God says Abraham kept TORAH (10 Commandments and sin offereings). You say Abraham DID NOT keep TORAH (This includes God's 4th Commandment). Who do we believe God or man?

Now if you BELIEVE Abraham did NOT keep God's SABBATH (part of TORAH) then please show the scriptures proving that Abraham did not keep the Sabbath which is part of the TORAH?

God's WORD shows God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the CEREMONIAL laws and ORDINANCES for SIN offerings (TORAH) were kept BEFORE Mt Sinai.

Let's look at God's WORD....

Genesis 26
5,
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 5
24, And Enoch walked with God:
and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6
8,
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.


CONCLUSION:
God's people before Mt Sinai followed him and kept his laws (TORAH). God's Sabbath is a part of God's law (TORAH). There is NO scripture that says God's people including Abraham did NOT keep God's Sabbath. Genesis shows that God's people including Abraham kept his law (TORAH) which includes the Sabbath.

..................

God destroys mankind because of sin......

Genesis 6
5,
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that EVERY IMAGINATION OF THE THOUGHTS OF HIOS HEAT was only EVIL CONTINUALLY.
6, And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7, And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8, But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.


What are these CONTINUAL EVIL THOUGHTS?

Matthew 15
19,
For out of the heart proceed EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, ADULTERIES, FORNICATION, THEFTS, FALSE WITNESS, BLASPHEMIES
20, These are the things which defile a man:

Evil is breaking God's Commandments in thought and actions.

Genesis 6
8,
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9, These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 8:20 And Noah built an altar to the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). The WORLD was destroyed because of SIN (breaking God's LAW). Noah walked with God and was perfect in God's eyes not destroyed because he and his family did NOT practice sin. Noah followed God's LAW and offered SIN offerings for forgiveness of SIN (TORAH)

..................

Cain was punished by God for Murder (6th Commandment Exo 20:13)

Genesis 4
8,
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9, And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10, And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11, And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12, When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13, And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

links to....

1 John 3
12,
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13, Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14, We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15, Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). CAIN was punished for the SIN of MURDER when he slew his brother Abel.

..................

In Genesis we also read about Joseph in Egypt as a servant being tempted to commit adultery with Potifer’s wife

Genesis 39
7, And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
8, But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
9, There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back anything from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

If Joseph did NOT know God’s LAW then how did he know he was SINNING against God by committing adultery with Potifer’s wife?


CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). Joseph knew that to commit ADULTERY (7th Commandment; Exodus 20:14) was SIN against God and refused not to SIN.

..................The Mosaic laws for remission of sin (SACRIFICIAL SIN OFFERINGS) were practiced BEFORE Sinai....

Genesis 4
4,
And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering.

Genesis 8
20,
And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (10 Commandments) please read Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:11. God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Romans 3:20) SIN offereings were only practiced in the OLD Covenant for the remission or forgiveness of SIN (Breaking God's 10 Commandments) If God's people did not have God's LAW why are they offering SIN offereings to God if these laws were only known about in Mt Sinai?

Abraham and his son practiced and knew about sin offerings...

Genesis 22
7,
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8, And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Exodus 10
25,
And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

CONCLUSION: SIN existed BEFORE Mt Sinai, SIN is disobeying God's WORD and breaking his law (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:9-11). From Abel through to Abraham before MOSES we see God's people obeying God's LAW and providing sin offerings to God for breaking his law. If there was no law (TORAH) there would be no sin and no need for sin offerings.

..................
The Sabbath was also kept by our first parents and also others BEFORE Sinai. The reason God gave the 10 Commandments again was being His people had been slaves in Egypt for 430 years (Exodus 12:40). God delivered his people from Egypt (the World) and needed to re-teach them his ways which were mostly forgotten by this time.

So yep God's LAW and the laws for remission of sin and burnt offerings of the OLD Covenant were indeed practiced BEFORE Sinai.

The Sabbath was made at the 7th Day of the creation week and given to Adam and Eve.

Let's look at the scriptures........

Genesis 2
1,
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2,
And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made.
3,
And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, and made it HOLY <the 7th day>: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

RESTED H7673שָׁבַת shabath
(shaw-ɓath') v.to repose, i.e. to cease from exertion.
{used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific)}[a primitive root]KJV: (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep Sabbath, suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away. Some points to note from the scriptures...............

v1 God completed creation in 6 days and RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v2
God RESTED on the 7TH DAY
v3
God SET APART the 7TH DAY and made THE 7TH DAY a HOLY DAY
v2
The 7TH DAY is part of the FINISHED WORK of the CREATION WEEKLet's now look at God's 4th commandment............

Exodus 20
8,
Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9,
Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10,
But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11,
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested theSEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

SABBATH H7676 שַׁבָּת shabbath
(shab-bawth') n-e. 1. intermission, a period of temporary rest.2. (specifically) the Sabbath, the seventh day being the day of rest.[intensive from H7673]KJV: (+ every) Sabbath. Root(s): H7673Now who did God make the 7th day a Holy day for? Is he making that day a Holy day for himself? Of course NOT God is already Holy. He has made the day for MANKIND as a HOLY DAY.

Let’s see what Jesus says…………

Mark 2
27,
And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was made for WHO? The Sabbath was made for MAN. So here we have the God of creation telling us why the 7th Day was made a Holy day. It was made for MANKIND

STRONGS Greek MAN
G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n.
1.
(literally) man†-visage (i.e. a man-faced being, a man who has visibly come of age).
2. (concretely, in Hebrew) a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female). 3. (generically, in English) a human being. 4. (indefinitely) a certain man (i.e. someone).
[from G435 and ops “the countenance” (from G3700)] KJV: certain, man Root(s): G435, G3700So the Sabbath was made for Human beings; clay beings (we are made out of the dust); male and female

So God made the 7th day of the week a HOLY day and blessed it for MAN this now ties in very nicely with the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) God says that it is a specific day which is the 7TH DAY OF THE WEEK that he has made to be a HOLY DAY.

Jesus says it was made Holy in the creation week for mankind. All scriptures connect and are in harmony. Genesis where God made the Day a HOLY DAY;

God’s 4th commandment to His people that says to REMEMBER the Sabbath day to KEEP it a HOLY DAY and Jesus stating that the Sabbath was made for MANKIND (Human beings; male and female).

Now if God made the Sabbath for mankind then obviously Adam and Eve had the Sabbath. The GREEK Word for MAN G444 ἄνθρωποςanthropos (an'-thrō-pos) n. is a clay being (a classification of beings made in the image of God, who made them male and female).

There is only two people made out of clay (dust) and that is Adam and Eve
.

Yep God's Sabbath was given to mankind in the Garden of Eden and made in the Creation WEEK. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE it. Those that do not BELIEVE God's Word are UNBELIVERS and UNBELIEVERS have no part in God's Kingdom................

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

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Jun 5, 2017
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Originally Posted by LoveGodForever


Sin is the transgression of God's LAW because it is by God's LAW we have a KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS.....
This is false on every level.
Do you BELIEVE God's WORD GNP?

These are God's WORD's not mine. Let's see from God's WORD.

WHAT IS SIN?

James 2
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW


James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 John 3
4 Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.
John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)
Links to...........

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to...........

ROMANS 3
[19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's commandments.

God's Word is in disagreement with you my friend.


The rest of your post is a strawman as the scripture says; to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17).

Adam and EVE knew not to eat of the tree of good and evil. God commanded them not to eat of it. They ate and broke God's commandment therefore sinned. This is a good study by the way. I might post it back up when I get some time.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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the next question from 7127

"what are their [the laws of the OLD COVENANT] purpose and how to they relate to the NEW COVENANT?"

i think it is to do this

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
Apologies Dan sorry for the slow reply. Indeed good scripture.

Have a read of post # 7401 linked CLICK ME, comparing the scriptures in there in relation to the OLD and NEW COVENANT and see if you can tell me what makes up the OLD COVENANT according to the scriptures posted?
 
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Every word of it is true - and it is independently verifiable for anyone wishing to do the research - and you know it! I totally get that you don't want me hanging out the dirty laundry of your iniquitous organisation.But that is tough...Remember this: it is offical Adventist doctrine that every other church is apostate.This is wrong of course but that is nonetheless the official position of the SDA church. Not too many Christians understand this and regard Adventists as a harmless, if rather eccentric, bunch.But I do know better - you are here purely to try and snare the unwary into your religion from Hell!
As we discussed a little earlier; the religeous teachers in the days of Jesus said that he had a devil and his followers were a cult this was also independenty verifiable in the days of Jesus and the Apostles. Just ask the Jews who hung Jesus on the cross.

This could be said of all those who followed Jesus throughout time even before Jesus the religious teachers of the day killed the prophets sent to them by God to share God's WORD (Luke 11:47; Matt 23:31)

Stephen was stoned to death it was independently verified that he was blaspheming because no one could argue with the scriptures that he was presenting.

Paul, Peter and most of the Apostles were also executed because it was independently verified by the religious teachers of the day that they could not respond to God's WORD they were sharing with them.

Not to mention all those of the reformation and the birth of Protestantism and the inquisiton of the Roman Catholic Church which executed millions of God's people because it was independently verified by the Roman Catholic Church that they were all heretics and should be burned at the stake.

Now today you call heretic it is independently verified because you cannot respond to the scripures that disagree with your Catholic traditions which has led many to break God's Commandments?

ONLY God's WORD is true and you do not have it to support your tradition that breaks the commandments of God. The WORD of God is sent to help you have a closer walk with God but you reject God's WORD in order to follow the traditions of the fathers.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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you really should not compare ellen white and your merry band of sda's to Christ and the Disciples . quite blasphemous.
 
Jun 5, 2017
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you really should not compare ellen white and your merry band of sda's to Christ and the Disciples . quite blasphemous.
Yes the religious teachers in the days of Jesus and the Apostles said the same thing you are saying when Jesus spoke the WORDS of GOD.

It is ONLY God's WORD that is shared with you and you call it blasphemous. It is ironic you do not see the similarities in the post above yours # 7426. But it is hard to see when you close your eyes to God's WORD in order to follow your traditions that break the Commandments of God.

ONLY God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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Good night all (my time) is late. HAPPY SABBATH to you all and may God's BLESSING be with those who love God's WORD and seek Jesus through his WORD. :) ONLY God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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The Law allows for a man to rescue an animal from a pit on the Sabbath.
What about a man who is sick, or falls and hurts himself on the Sabbath. Does God's Law allow for a man to help a human, or did God restrict said help to only animals.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Apologies Dan sorry for the slow reply. Indeed good scripture.

Have a read of post # 7401 linked CLICK ME, comparing the scriptures in there in relation to the OLD and NEW COVENANT and see if you can tell me what makes up the OLD COVENANT according to the scriptures posted?
i believe i already answered your questions of what the old covenant is and what rules are in it

do you disagree with those answers?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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i believe i already answered your questions of what the old covenant is and what rules are in it

do you disagree with those answers?
No Dan you did not answer the question.

The question was what laws make up the old Covenant and what were their purposes?

Your reply was...

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Which says if God's people obey the covenant they will be his people. Although a nice scripture it does not answer the question.

Have a look at the scriptures in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME and see if you can answer the question what laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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No Dan you did not answer the question.

The question was what laws make up the old Covenant and what were their purposes?

Your reply was...

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Which says if God's people obey the covenant they will be his people. Although a nice scripture it does not answer the question.

Have a look at the scriptures in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME and see if you can answer the question what laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?
regarding the question "what makes up the laws of the OLD COVENANT"

i believe i answered that here

the next question from 7127

"what makes up the laws of the OLD COVENANT"

i think that would be the laws Moses told the people here

Exodus 24: 3. And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.


if the book of exodus is written chronologically, i think that would be the laws listed in exodus 20 to 23
i then added

After further Review, i see some laws in Ex 13
do you agree with that answer?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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No Dan you did not answer the question.

The question was what laws make up the old Covenant and what were their purposes?

Your reply was...

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Which says if God's people obey the covenant they will be his people. Although a nice scripture it does not answer the question.

Have a look at the scriptures in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME and see if you can answer the question what laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?
then regarding the question "what were their [the laws of the OLD COVENANT] purposes?

i believe i answered that here

the next question from 7127

"what are their [the laws of the OLD COVENANT] purpose and how to they relate to the NEW COVENANT?"

i think it is to do this

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

do you wish me to add my words of explanation to that scripture?
or can you say now if you agree with my answer?
 
Jun 5, 2017
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0
do you wish me to add my words of explanation to that scripture? or can you say now if you agree with my answer?
No Dan you did not answer the question which was...

What laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?

Your reply was...

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Please feel free to explain why you believe this scripture answers the question if you like.

You can find your answer here in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME, if it is helpful or pray about it if you can't find the answer? Let me know if your having trouble. I am happy to share God's WORD with you.
 
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Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
No Dan you did not answer the question which was...

What laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?

Your reply was...

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

Please feel free to explain why you believe this scripture answers the question if you like.

You can find your answer here in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME, if it is helpful or pray about it if you can't find the answer? Let me know if your having trouble. I am happy to share God's WORD with you.
i believe i answered that about two posts ago

"what makes up the laws of the OLD COVENANT"

i think that would be the laws Moses told the people here

Exodus 24: 3. And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.*


if the book of exodus is written chronologically, i think that would be the laws listed in exodus 20 to 23

and,
After further Review, i see some laws in Ex 13

then
"what are their [the laws of the OLD COVENANT] purpose and how to they relate to the NEW COVENANT?"

i think it is to do this

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
i believe the 613 is Ram Bam's calculation

i think it's more like 7 or 8 hundred

if exodus is chronological (maybe, maybe not), Leviticus comes after Moses put the blood of the covenant on the people
Try again with the reality of the number of rules in the law from the Torah. I don't know where you get your inaccurate facts from. Also Leviticus is unique in that it has all of the rules and procedures the priests (Levites) were to follow. That is why it is ignored by most people to regularly read. Boring mostly. Try investigating before you post against what somebody posts. Doing that I learned many things.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

613 commandments
The tradition that 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‬, taryag mitzvot, "613 mitzvot") is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.

Although there have been many attempts to codify and enumerate the commandments contained in the Torah, the most traditional enumeration is Maimonides'. The 613 commandments include "positive commandments", to perform an act (mitzvot aseh), and "negative commandments", to abstain from certain acts (mitzvot lo taaseh). The negative commandments number 365, which coincides with the number of days in the solar year, and the positive commandments number 248, a number ascribed to the number of bones and main organs in the human body (Babylonian Talmud, Makkot 23b–24a). Though the number 613 is mentioned in the Talmud, its real significance increased in later medieval rabbinic literature, including many works listing or arranged by the mitzvot. Three types of negative commandments fall under the self-sacrificial principle yehareg ve'al ya'avor, meaning "One should let oneself be killed rather than violate it". These are murder, idolatry, and forbidden sexual relations.

The 613 mitzvot have been divided also into three general categories: mishpatim; edot; and chukim. Mishpatim ("laws") include commandments that are deemed to be self-evident, such as not to murder and not to steal. Edot ("testimonies") commemorate important events in Jewish history. For example, the Shabbat is said to testify to the story that Hashem created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day and declared it holy. Chukim ("decrees") are commandments with no known rationale, and are perceived as pure manifestations of the Divine will.

Many of the mitzvot cannot be observed now, following the destruction of the Second Temple, although they still retain religious significance. According to one standard reckoning, there are 77 positive and 194 negative commandments that can be observed today, of which there are 26 commands that apply only within the Land of Israel. Furthermore, there are some time-related commandments from which women are exempt (examples include shofar, sukkah, lulav, tzitzit and tefillin). Some depend on the special status of a person in Judaism (such as kohanim), while others apply only to men or only to women.
 
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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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If you do not KNOW what the OLD Covenant is how can you KNOW what the NEW COVENANT IS?

READ the TOP post on this page

POST # 7401 linked CLICK ME on what is the NEW COVENANT CLICK ME

You do not understand THE OLD AND NEW COVENANTS dear. If you do not KNOW what the COVENANT are how can you know what the Gospel is?

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

My dear,

in my judgement, you the one that do not know both old and New Covenant.

if you know old Covenant than you know that ot is for Israel, before cross. We are not under ot law anymore. We are under New command.

This is new command

[h=1]Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV)[/h]37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

you do not know this command, that is why you keep saying, if you love God than you have to observe on Saturday.

that is super wrong dear. Under New command observe sabbath mean come to Jesus. It can be any time.

dear, what you do is declare war to the Lord.

the Lord say come to me and I give you rest.

and you say, you are Lie Lord, ot say I have to observe sabbath every Saturday.

you not going to win, your opponent is the Lord.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
My dear,

in my judgement, you the one that do not know both old and New Covenant.

if you know old Covenant than you know that ot is for Israel, before cross. We are not under ot law anymore. We are under New command.

This is new command

Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV)

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

you do not know this command, that is why you keep saying, if you love God than you have to observe on Saturday.

that is super wrong dear. Under New command observe sabbath mean come to Jesus. It can be any time.

dear, what you do is declare war to the Lord.

the Lord say come to me and I give you rest.

and you say, you are Lie Lord, ot say I have to observe sabbath every Saturday.

you not going to win, your opponent is the Lord.
Oops
Jesus disagrees with your statement about the law!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
Try again with the reality of the number of rules in the law from the Torah. I don't know where you get your inaccurate facts from. Also Leviticus is unique in that it has all of the rules and procedures the priests (Levites) were to follow. That is why it is ignored by most people to regularly read. Boring mostly. Try investigating before you post against what somebody posts. Doing that I learned many things.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

613 commandments
The tradition that 613 commandments (Hebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‬, taryag mitzvot, "613 mitzvot") is the number of mitzvot in the Torah, began in the 3rd century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned it in a sermon that is recorded in Talmud Makkot 23b.

Although there have been many attempts to codify and enumerate the commandments contained in the Torah, the most traditional enumeration is Maimonides'. The 613 commandments include "positive commandments", to perform an act (mitzvot aseh), and "negative commandments", to abstain from certain acts (mitzvot lo taaseh). The negative commandments number 365, which coincides with the number of days in the solar year, and the positive commandments number 248, a number ascribed to the number of bones and main organs in the human body (Babylonian Talmud, Makkot 23b–24a). Though the number 613 is mentioned in the Talmud, its real significance increased in later medieval rabbinic literature, including many works listing or arranged by the mitzvot. Three types of negative commandments fall under the self-sacrificial principle yehareg ve'al ya'avor, meaning "One should let oneself be killed rather than violate it". These are murder, idolatry, and forbidden sexual relations.

The 613 mitzvot have been divided also into three general categories: mishpatim; edot; and chukim. Mishpatim ("laws") include commandments that are deemed to be self-evident, such as not to murder and not to steal. Edot ("testimonies") commemorate important events in Jewish history. For example, the Shabbat is said to testify to the story that Hashem created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day and declared it holy. Chukim ("decrees") are commandments with no known rationale, and are perceived as pure manifestations of the Divine will.

Many of the mitzvot cannot be observed now, following the destruction of the Second Temple, although they still retain religious significance. According to one standard reckoning, there are 77 positive and 194 negative commandments that can be observed today, of which there are 26 commands that apply only within the Land of Israel. Furthermore, there are some time-related commandments from which women are exempt (examples include shofar, sukkah, lulav, tzitzit and tefillin). Some depend on the special status of a person in Judaism (such as kohanim), while others apply only to men or only to women.
it all depends how you count the laws

Ram Bam was a human just like us

for example, is this a command? if so, is it one command or several?

Genesis 1: 28. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." - Bible Offline