GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Endoscopy · Mar 23, 2018

Try again. This number has been found to be accurate and verified over the millenniums of Jewish and Christian scholars. Trying to make it only 1 person creating it is foolish. Please live in the real world and verify what you post. Provide proof of that fact you assert. Keep in mind that Christian and Jewish scholars verify everything by scouring the scriptures to verify everything.

Dan_473 · Mar 23, 2018

Endoscopy said:

i believe it is usually attributed to ram bam

however, if you know if an earlier scholar, or another scholar of your choice who has recorded their reasonings, then we could examine them

Jackson123 · Mar 23, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Oops
Jesus disagrees with your statement about the law!!

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I mean not under OT law, we are under New Covenant

for example: to kill sabbath violator, kill adulterer, animal sacrifice. Etc is OT law and we are not under it.

Endoscopy · Mar 23, 2018

Jackson123 said:

You are ignoring what Jesus said about the law, it will endure until heaven and earth disappear. Also if no law there is no sin since sin is transgression of the law. No way around the fact that the law as defined in the Torah is in force. Are you telling me Jesus lied?? Certain practices have been done away with because of Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross for our sins. Certain parts of the law only relate to certain groups, those living in Israel, men, women, etc. Also the laws you want to point out was for when Israel was under the judges and kings being supposed to be a scripture centered government. Your statements sound like atheists picking on the Bible. How dare you deny what Jesus said about the law.

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Tell me again how we are not under the law!!! Are you guilty of setting aside the law?

graceNpeace · Mar 23, 2018

Everything is accomplished....

Endoscopy · Mar 23, 2018

graceNpeace said:

When did the rapture happen? I haven't heard about Jesus appearing in the sky and setting up his throne in Jerusalem. End times are not yet. The temple hasn't been rebuilt. Therefore the abomination of desecration hasn't occurred. The tribulation hasn't happened yet. Your eschatology is flawed.

graceNpeace · Mar 23, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Who says that that statement is an eschatological one?
You?

PS · Mar 24, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

You quote scripture out of context and deny scripture that tells us mankind rules over the animals, so making it up as you go along.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them;

The Law allows you to rescue an animal over whom we have dominion, from a pit on the Sabbath, but anything else is work!

And you expect people to follow Mosaic Law! You must think we are all as barmy as you.

Jesus has it right, and to go against the Messiah's commandments that have priority over the Old Covenant Mosaic commandments, is foolishness indeed, as is your false teaching.

Jackson123 · Mar 24, 2018

Endoscopy said:

You are ignoring what Jesus said about the law, it will endure until heaven and earth disappear. Also if no law there is no sin since sin is transgression of the law. No way around the fact that the law as defined in the Torah is in force. Are you telling me Jesus lied?? Certain practices have been done away with because of Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross for our sins. Certain parts of the law only relate to certain groups, those living in Israel, men, women, etc. Also the laws you want to point out was for when Israel was under the judges and kings being supposed to be a scripture centered government. Your statements sound like atheists picking on the Bible. How dare you deny what Jesus said about the law.

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Tell me again how we are not under the law!!! Are you guilty of setting aside the law?

why you not kill adulterer?

Jackson123 · Mar 24, 2018

Endoscopy said:

You are ignoring what Jesus said about the law, it will endure until heaven and earth disappear. Also if no law there is no sin since sin is transgression of the law. No way around the fact that the law as defined in the Torah is in force. Are you telling me Jesus lied?? Certain practices have been done away with because of Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross for our sins. Certain parts of the law only relate to certain groups, those living in Israel, men, women, etc. Also the laws you want to point out was for when Israel was under the judges and kings being supposed to be a scripture centered government. Your statements sound like atheists picking on the Bible. How dare you deny what Jesus said about the law.
Love
Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Tell me again how we are not under the law!!! Are you guilty of setting aside the law?

Did I tell you we are not under law? I apologize, I mean we are not under OT law.

because being fulfill by Jesus

PS · Mar 24, 2018

Endoscopy said:

GREEN:
I was re-reading a book a couple of days ago written by two Jewish gentlemen called Bivin and Blizzard entitled "Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus (Yahshua)" in which they explained the Messiah's words when he said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." We know the Scribes and Pharisees were adept at corrupting the law, and this is how Bivin and Blizzard explained what Jesus meant when he said he came to fulfill the law, which he did in two ways. First by fulfilling the words of the Old Testament prophets, and second by correctly interpreting the law:-

"When Jesus said this he was using a familiar phrase that was easily understood in Biblical days. What happened is that during rabbinical discussions when a rabbi felt that another colleague was wrong he would say "You are destroying the law" but other rabbis' who felt they were correctly interpreting Scripture would say they were "fulfilling the Law" i.e. they were correct. Jesus, being correct in his teaching could therefore say that, "he fulfilled the law." (Bivin and Blizzard)

So back to me. Jesus fulfilled the law in all respects both in words and in deed and as the commandments of Jesus are the correct interpretation of Old Testament law we should be following the commandments of Jesus and not the Old Testament laws that were codified many years after Moses and are not be all they should be.

LoveGodForever · Mar 24, 2018

Jackson123 said:

Yet here you still are dear not able to answer or respond to God's WORD that answers your questions.

We are in the NEW Covenant not the OLD Covenant dear.

All your questions have been answered with scripture but you refuse to believe God's WORD so you can make up your own religion and follow your Catholic teachings.

........................

1. CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

2. CLICK HERE; WHAT MAKES UP THE OLD COVENANT?

3. CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

4. CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

5. CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

6. CLICK HERE; THE OLD COVENANT LEADS TO THE NEW COVENANT

7. CLICK HERE; GOD’S LAWS BEFORE MOSES AND THE SABBATH IN CREATION

........................

Only God's Word is true dear and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the traditions of men that break the Commandments of God. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here dear.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Jackson123 · Mar 24, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Yet here you still are dear not able to answer or respond to God's WORD that answers your questions.

We are in the NEW Covenant not the OLD Covenant dear.

All your questions have been answered with scripture but you refuse to believe God's WORD so you can make up your own religion and follow your Catholic teachings.

........................

1. CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

2. CLICK HERE; WHAT MAKES UP THE OLD COVENANT?

3. CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

4. CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

5. CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

6. CLICK HERE; THE OLD COVENANT LEADS TO THE NEW COVENANT

7. CLICK HERE; GOD’S LAWS BEFORE MOSES AND THE SABBATH IN CREATION

........................

Only God's Word is true dear and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the traditions of men that break the Commandments of God. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here dear.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

I am follow the Bible, not catholic dear, you follow Ellen, not bible

we are in New Covenant not under 10 C. Jesus fulfill OT. So we are not under OT

you are declare war to the Lord by follow Ellen

LoveGodForever · Mar 24, 2018

Jackson123 said:

None of that is true dear. You say you follow the bible yet you do not know God's WORD when asked simple questions and your teaching is that you should live in the OLD Covenant to kill the violator then you ignore all the scripture from God's WORD that disagree with you and cannot respond to the scriptures that answer all your questions from these posts (linked BELOW)...

How can you BELIEVE God's WORD if you do not KNOW it? If you disagree please respond to the posts that answer all your questions below with scripture that you have ignored?

........................

1. CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

2. CLICK HERE; WHAT MAKES UP THE OLD COVENANT?

3. CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

4. CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

5. CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

6. CLICK HERE; THE OLD COVENANT LEADS TO THE NEW COVENANT

7. CLICK HERE; GOD’S LAWS BEFORE MOSES AND THE SABBATH IN CREATION

........................

Only God's Word is true dear and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the traditions of men that break the Commandments of God. There is a lot of scripture that disagrees with you here dear.

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Gabriel2020 · Mar 24, 2018

VENGEANCE IS MINE, SAITH THE LORD. I WILL REPAY. That is why the saints and prophets are still crying out to God for vengeance on their lives. They did not avenge the death of anyone.

lightbearer · Mar 24, 2018

LoveGodForever said:

Happy Sabbath to you also my brother!

MarcR · Mar 24, 2018

Dan_473 said:

i believe i answered that about two posts ago

"what makes up the laws of the OLD COVENANT"

i think that would be the laws Moses told the people here

Exodus 24: 3. And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.*

if the book of exodus is written chronologically, i think that would be the laws listed in exodus 20 to 23

and,
After further Review, i see some laws in Ex 13

then
"what are their [the laws of the OLD COVENANT] purpose and how to they relate to the NEW COVENANT?"

i think it is to do this

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

If he doesn't like your answer, he will claim you haven't answered. If you cite scripture he will post a page of unrelated scripture to obfuscate the truth. There is no way to persuade him of anything. He is thoroughly brainwashed!

LoveGodForever · Mar 24, 2018

PS said:

I have no idea what your point is here.

Please explain what you are responding to that I have said in this entire thread and where I have denied any scripture that you are quoting and talking about in this post.

It seems your just making stuff up now because you cannot deny God's WORD that disagrees with your interpretation of God's WORD that teaches against the law and the prophets?

Teaching against the law and the prophets is something Jesus or the Apostles never did.

LoveGodForever · Mar 24, 2018

PS said:

JESUS WORKED ON THE SABBATH?

In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).

Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)

Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.

Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?

Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.

God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular bussiness or paid work, no uneccesary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.

.......................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

LoveGodForever · Mar 24, 2018

MarcR said:

MarcR your are funny one with false accusations.

Please give examples and let's discuss them and let God's WORD decide between us?

If you cannot all your doing here as you always do is stating your own words over Gods because you do not have God's WORD to share or cannot respond to the scriptures share with you. It is ok maybe you can pray about it at home?

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE another.

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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