Greek scholars, help

[BeyondET]

Phrase being something like, (all the believing ones)

 

[valiant]

The subordinate clause "should not perish" doesn't guarantee an indefinite period of time, because the context "might have eternal life" takes away the guarantee of the indefinite possibility.

I hope that was what you were looking for. I'm not a Greek scholar, but I know enough to understand that context surrounding the main & subordinate clauses matter.

You're DEFINITELY not a Greek scholar. The greek is more certain than the English suggests.,

 

[Stephen63]

aannnd now i'm confused again. (shocker!)

what's the main clause in the Greek? and which are subordinate?

NASB
Main:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His One and Only Son..."
Subordinate:
"that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but (might) have eternal life."


Text Analysis
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Houtōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]thus[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]world,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5620 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hōste[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὥστε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Huion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]only begotten,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he gave,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]everyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]believing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1519 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3361 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μὴ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]should perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ASM-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]all’[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλ’[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]might have[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PSA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


eche(2192) translates "might have".

Very few single verses have enough of their own context to determine their true meaning. This one does.

 

[maxwel]

I think the particular expression of Greek in this passage makes it extremely clear it is only referring to availability of salvation for Southern Baptists.


I can't imagine how it could be read any other way.

 

[BeyondET]

When the Greek isn't clear enough try the Aramiac...

17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to condemn the world; but that the world might live by means of him.

 

[Stephen63]

You're DEFINITELY not a Greek scholar. The greek is more certain than the English suggests.,

You're definitely a defamer of character, & not a Greek scholar, for you provided no information at all.

I didn't ask for this.....

 

[valiant]

NASB
Main:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His One and Only Son..."

That is two clauses.

Subordinate:
"that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but (might) have eternal life."

a further two clauses LOL you portray your lack of knowledge of greek (and English) at every step

 

[Stephen63]

That is two clauses.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]


a further two clauses LOL you portray your lack of knowledge of greek (and English) at every step

Isn't it amazing I still came up with the right answer?

I claimed ignorance..... what's your excuse?

 

[notmyown]

NASB
Main:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His One and Only Son..."
Subordinate:
"that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but (might) have eternal life."


Text Analysis
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 17%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 20%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]English[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 21%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Morphology[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Houtōs[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]thus[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1063 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]gar[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]γὰρ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]indeed[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Theos[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]God[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]world,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5620 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hōste[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὥστε[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]Huion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]Υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]τὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]the[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]only begotten,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν,[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]he gave,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-AIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2443 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hina[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἵνα[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]that[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]everyone[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3588 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ho[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὁ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Art-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]believing[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PPA-NMS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1519 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]eis[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]εἰς[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]in[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]846 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]auton[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αὐτὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]him,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]PPro-AM3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3361 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]mē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μὴ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]should perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-ASM-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]235 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]all’[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀλλ’[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]but[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Conj[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]might have[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PSA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]N-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον.[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal.[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adj-AFS[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


eche(2192) translates "might have".

Very few single verses have enough of their own context to determine their true meaning. This one does.

so you're saying "eché" expresses doubt?

 

[notmyown]

I think the particular expression of Greek in this passage makes it extremely clear it is only referring to availability of salvation for Southern Baptists.


I can't imagine how it could be read any other way.

is "duh" an appropriate response?

; )

 

[Stephen63]

so you're saying "eché" expresses doubt?

No. It means "to have", "hold", intimating it's left up to the "holder" whether or not it is kept.

I'm with oldhermit on this one..... you already know. This is my last explanation.

 

[trofimus]

so you're saying "eché" expresses doubt?

No, ἔχῃ has nothing to do with any "might" and expresses no doubt. This table has it wrong.

I have also no idea why the word "should" is present in "should perish". But it can by just my bad English

 

[Stephen63]

biblehub.com

John 3:16 Greek Text Analysis

 

[notmyown]

No. It means "to have", "hold", intimating it's left up to the "holder" whether or not it is kept.

I'm with oldhermit on this one..... you already know. This is my last explanation.

i do thank you both. i really am trying to understand, but perhaps i should begin with A-B-C.

 

[notmyown]

No, ἔχῃ has nothing to do with any "might" and expresses no doubt. This table has it wrong.

I have also no idea why the word "should" is present in "should perish". But it can by just my bad English

by that table, apolétai and eché both come up as "mights". lol

i assume the tense and mood change things, as they aren't the same.

 

[trofimus]

i do thank you both. i really am trying to understand, but perhaps i should begin with A-B-C.

I think you understand it quite well.

You do not need to learn all English lingvistic terms for language rules, you can use your feeling of "right and wrong" like children when learning their first language

Just read a lot and it will come.

 

[valiant]

You're definitely a defamer of character, & not a Greek scholar, for you provided no information at all.

I didn't ask for this.....

You DID ask for it by wrong stress on the MIGHT which does not mean might or might not .

 

[trofimus]

by that table, apolétai and eché both come up as "mights". lol

i assume the tense and mood change things, as they aren't the same.

I have no idea how do they create these tables, but it is quite frequently wrong, IMHO. They try to express the context of the sentence in the line with one Greek word and it creates such problems like this.

The same problems are with any interlinear translations.

 

[valiant]

Isn't it amazing I still came up with the right answer?

I claimed ignorance..... what's your excuse?

if saying there are two clauses where there are four is the right answer I hate to think what the wrong answer might be. you admitted to not being a Greek scholar, leave it there

 

[valiant]

No. It means "to have", "hold", intimating it's left up to the "holder" whether or not it is kept.

.

In context it means to 'have' not to hold and it expresses certainty.