Greek scholars, help

[oldhermit]

so you're saying "eché" expresses doubt?

ἔχῃ is not meant to express doubt. Ir expresses an absolute, or a certainty.

 

[Magenta]

ἔχῃ is not meant to express doubt. Ir expresses an absolute, or a certainty.

It is like giving permission, yes?

 

[oldhermit]

It is like giving permission, yes?

No. The insertion of 'might' into thre translation is completely unwarrented. This is a certainty of possession.

 

[Stephen63]

In context it means to 'have' not to hold and it expresses certainty.

NASB Lexicon
[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]NASB ©[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 10%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Definition[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]"For God[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]theos[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]God, a god[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]so[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]outōs[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]in this way, thus[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]adverb from houtos,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to love[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]order, the world[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that He gave[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to give (in various senses lit. or fig.)[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]redupl. from the root do-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]His only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from monos and genos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]uion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]a son[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that whoever[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]all, every[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]believes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to believe, entrust[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from pistis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]in Him shall not perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to destroy, destroy utterly[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from apo and same as olethros[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]but have[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to have, hold[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]agelong, eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from aión[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]life.[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from zaó[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
KJV Lexicon
ουτως adverb
houto hoo'-to: after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.[HR][/HR]γαρ conjunction
gar gar: assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles)[HR][/HR]ηγαπησεν verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular
agapao ag-ap-ah'-o: to love (in a social or moral sense) -- (be-)love(-ed).[HR][/HR]ο definite article - nominative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]θεος noun - nominative singular masculine
theos theh'-os: a deity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very -- exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]κοσμον noun - accusative singular masculine
kosmos kos'-mos: orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally) -- adorning, world.[HR][/HR]ωστε conjunction
hoste hoce'-teh: so too, i.e. thus therefore (in various relations of consecution, as follow) -- (insomuch) as, so that (then), (insomuch) that, therefore, to, wherefore.[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]υιον noun - accusative singular masculine
huios hwee-os': a son (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figuratively, kinship -- child, foal, son.[HR][/HR]αυτου personal pronoun - genitive singular masculine
autos ow-tos': the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]μονογενη adjective - accusative singular masculine
monogenes mon-og-en-ace': only-born, i.e. sole -- only (begotten, child).[HR][/HR]εδωκεν verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular
didomi did'-o-mee: to give (used in a very wide application, properly, or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection)[HR][/HR]ινα conjunction
hina hin'-ah: in order that (denoting the purpose or the result) -- albeit, because, to the intent (that), lest, so as, (so) that, (for) to.[HR][/HR]πας adjective - nominative singular masculine
pas pas: apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole[HR][/HR]ο definite article - nominative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]πιστευων verb - present active participle - nominative singular masculine
pisteuo pist-yoo'-o: to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ)[HR][/HR]εις preposition
eis ice: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases[HR][/HR]αυτον personal pronoun - accusative singular masculine
autos ow-tos': the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons[HR][/HR]μη particle - nominative
me may: any but (that), forbear, God forbid, lack, lest, neither, never, no (wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without.[HR][/HR]αποληται verb - second aorist middle subjunctive - third person singular
apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee: to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.[HR][/HR]αλλ conjunction
alla al-lah': other things, i.e. (adverbially) contrariwise (in many relations) -- and, but (even), howbeit, indeed, nay, nevertheless, no, notwithstanding, save, therefore, yea, yet.[HR][/HR]εχη verb - present active subjunctive - third person singular
echo ekh'-o: (used in certain tenses only) a primary verb; to hold[HR][/HR]ζωην noun - accusative singular feminine
zoe dzo-ay': life -- life(-time).[HR][/HR]αιωνιον adjective - accusative singular feminine
aionios ahee-o'-nee-os: perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well) -- eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


"Yeah, I can't believe they would put all those inaccuracies in the Greek.....yeah, every one of them is wrong."

Only the armchair & internet theologians are right.

 

[Magenta]

No. The insertion of 'might' into thre translation is completely unwarrented. This is a certainty of possession.

It is conditional.

 

[Grace777x70]

No. The insertion of 'might' into thre translation is completely unwarrented. This is a certainty of possession.

Would this be something like this?

I went to the bank so that I might be able to give you the $1,000 bucks I owe you so that you can get that new gun for boar hunting.

 

[oldhermit]

Would this be something like this?

I went to the bank so that I might be able to give you the $1,000 bucks I owe you so that you can get that new gun for boar hunting.

That may have been the intent of the translators but the insertion of 'might' violates the integrity of the olt.

 

[Magenta]

Might and may are the same. God did it so we might, or so we may, attain
to eternal life conditioned on our belief in what He accomplished for us.
It is not a question of whether or not He will fulfill His promise to us.

 

[valiant]

NASB Lexicon
[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]NASB ©[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 10%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Definition[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]"For God[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]theos[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]God, a god[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]so[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]outōs[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]in this way, thus[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]adverb from houtos,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to love[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]order, the world[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that He gave[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to give (in various senses lit. or fig.)[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]redupl. from the root do-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]His only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from monos and genos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]uion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]a son[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that whoever[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]all, every[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]believes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to believe, entrust[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from pistis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]in Him shall not perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to destroy, destroy utterly[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from apo and same as olethros[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]but have[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to have, hold[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]agelong, eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from aión[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]life.[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from zaó[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
KJV Lexicon
ουτως adverb
houto hoo'-to: after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.[HR][/HR]γαρ conjunction
gar gar: assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles)[HR][/HR]ηγαπησεν verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular
agapao ag-ap-ah'-o: to love (in a social or moral sense) -- (be-)love(-ed).[HR][/HR]ο definite article - nominative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]θεος noun - nominative singular masculine
theos theh'-os: a deity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very -- exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]κοσμον noun - accusative singular masculine
kosmos kos'-mos: orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally) -- adorning, world.[HR][/HR]ωστε conjunction
hoste hoce'-teh: so too, i.e. thus therefore (in various relations of consecution, as follow) -- (insomuch) as, so that (then), (insomuch) that, therefore, to, wherefore.[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]υιον noun - accusative singular masculine
huios hwee-os': a son (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figuratively, kinship -- child, foal, son.[HR][/HR]αυτου personal pronoun - genitive singular masculine
autos ow-tos': the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons[HR][/HR]τον definite article - accusative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]μονογενη adjective - accusative singular masculine
monogenes mon-og-en-ace': only-born, i.e. sole -- only (begotten, child).[HR][/HR]εδωκεν verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular
didomi did'-o-mee: to give (used in a very wide application, properly, or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection)[HR][/HR]ινα conjunction
hina hin'-ah: in order that (denoting the purpose or the result) -- albeit, because, to the intent (that), lest, so as, (so) that, (for) to.[HR][/HR]πας adjective - nominative singular masculine
pas pas: apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole[HR][/HR]ο definite article - nominative singular masculine
ho ho: the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom) -- the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.[HR][/HR]πιστευων verb - present active participle - nominative singular masculine
pisteuo pist-yoo'-o: to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ)[HR][/HR]εις preposition
eis ice: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases[HR][/HR]αυτον personal pronoun - accusative singular masculine
autos ow-tos': the reflexive pronoun self, used of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons[HR][/HR]μη particle - nominative
me may: any but (that), forbear, God forbid, lack, lest, neither, never, no (wise in), none, nor, (can-)not, nothing, that not, un(-taken), without.[HR][/HR]αποληται verb - second aorist middle subjunctive - third person singular
apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee: to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.[HR][/HR]αλλ conjunction
alla al-lah': other things, i.e. (adverbially) contrariwise (in many relations) -- and, but (even), howbeit, indeed, nay, nevertheless, no, notwithstanding, save, therefore, yea, yet.[HR][/HR]εχη verb - present active subjunctive - third person singular
echo ekh'-o: (used in certain tenses only) a primary verb; to hold[HR][/HR]ζωην noun - accusative singular feminine
zoe dzo-ay': life -- life(-time).[HR][/HR]αιωνιον adjective - accusative singular feminine
aionios ahee-o'-nee-os: perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well) -- eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


"Yeah, I can't believe they would put all those inaccuracies in the Greek.....yeah, every one of them is wrong."

Only the armchair & internet theologians are right.

Context is king LOL

 

[oldhermit]

It is conditional.

Of course it is conditional.

 

[Splagna]

The Greek term Hina (ἵνα) introduces a purpose clause. This clause explains the purpose of the main verb.



As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. (NASB)



In verses 14 and 15 the main verb is “lifted up” and the purpose of the lifting up is they will have (ἔχῃ echō) in Him eternal life. The “they will have” is qualified by “whoever believes.” NOTE: the verb in a hina clause is in the subjunctive.


For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



In verse 16 the main verb is "gave" and the purpose of the giving is so that they have eternal life. Who? Whoever believes.



For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.



In verse 17 the main verb is “send,” and the purpose of sending His Son is that the world might be saved through Him.



In John 12:32 Jesus said, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”



In John 3:14-17 writes that the purpose of Jesus being lifted up, given and sent were all for the purpose of giving whoever believes eternal life. Notice how verses 16 and 17 begin with the causal “for,” connecting them to lifting up.



Disclaimer: I’m a Greek hobbyist and in no way would suggest I’m a Greek scholar.

 

[valiant]

No. The insertion of 'might' into the translation is completely unwarrented. This is a certainty of possession.

consider verse 17 where it says 'that the world MIGHT be saved through Him'. No one in their right mind would say it also means 'might not'.

 

[oldhermit]

The Greek term Hina (ἵνα) introduces a purpose clause. This clause explains the purpose of the main verb.



As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. (NASB)



In verses 14 and 15 the main verb is “lifted up” and the purpose of the lifting up is they will have (ἔχῃ echō) in Him eternal life. The “they will have” is qualified by “whoever believes.” NOTE: the verb in a hina clause is in the subjunctive.


For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



In verse 16 the main verb is "gave" and the purpose of the giving is so that they have eternal life. Who? Whoever believes.



For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.



In verse 17 the main verb is “send,” and the purpose of sending His Son is that the world might be saved through Him.



In John 12:32 Jesus said, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”



In John 3:14-17 writes that the purpose of Jesus being lifted up, given and sent were all for the purpose of giving whoever believes eternal life. Notice how verses 16 and 17 begin with the causal “for,” connecting them to lifting up.



Disclaimer: I’m a Greek hobbyist and in no way would suggest I’m a Greek scholar.

LOL. I do not think there are any Greek "scholars" here but, there are a good many Greek hobbyists.

 

[Splagna]

'Pas' is generally translated as 'all' as representing the wbole. I think 'whosoever' may be a bit weak.

BDAG agrees with your first sentence but also defines "pas" as "whoever" on page 632.

 

[oldhermit]

consider verse 17 where it says 'that the world MIGHT be saved through Him'. No one in their right mind would say it also means 'might not'.

Well, that is not exactly correct. σωθῇ is subjunctive signifying something that is potentially possible. Unlike ἔχῃ, the subjunctive spelling of σωθῇ does indeed express uncertainty where the outcome is determined by condition or response, as a point of fact, most of the world will not be saved because most will not believe.

 

[oldhermit]

BDAG agrees with your first sentence but also defines "pas" as "whoever" on page 632.

Ok. I'll look at that. I trust the BAGD more that any other source.

 

[Splagna]

Well, that is not exactly correct. σωθῇ is subjunctive signifying something that is potentially possible. Unlike ἔχῃ, the subjunctive spelling of σωθῇ does indeed express uncertainty where the outcome is determined by condition or response, as a point of fact, most of the world will not be saved because most will not believe.

Both ἔχῃ and σωθῇ are in the subjunctive mood. But the verb in a ἵνα clause is always subjunctive, so whether a hina subjunctive has a future sense or leans more tentative would depend on the context.

 

[oldhermit]

Both ἔχῃ and σωθῇ are in the subjunctive mood. But the verb in a ἵνα clause is always subjunctive, so whether a hina subjunctive has a future sense or leans more tentative would depend on the context.

Your are right, eche is subjunctive. I missed that.
Yes, that is true.

 

[oldhermit]

Both ἔχῃ and σωθῇ are in the subjunctive mood. But the verb in a ἵνα clause is always subjunctive, so whether a hina subjunctive has a future sense or leans more tentative would depend on the context.

This is also seen in the previous clause with ἵνα κρίνῃ.

 

[Ariel82]

i know we're blessed to have several Koine Greek scholars here; may i ask for your assistance?

specifically concerning the 'hina' (ἵνα) clause as related to Jn 3:14-17.

all i've figured out is it's a purpose clause (i think! lol). but as i look it seems there's a parallel structure in those verses.
really, any ἵνα in the New Testament where it appears, can you try to explain it to me?


thank you![TABLE="class: maintext"]
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^^^ the result of copying Greek from the 'net, apparently.

Not a Greek scholar, but good at researching. Found this article by a Greek scholar, maybe it will help?

https://www.sermonwriter.com/biblical-commentary/john-314-21

“that whoever (pas—everyone, all) who believes (pisteuo) in him” (v. 15a). The fact that Jesus usespas (everyone, all) here serves as a hint that the Gospel will not be limited to Israel, but will extend to all the world—a fact that Jesus makes more explicit in verse 16.

To believe (pisteuo) is to be convinced that something is true—to trust it—to have faith. The author of Hebrews defines faith as the “assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen” (Hebrews 11:1). Belief makes it possible for people to live confidently in the midst of difficulty.